Vaccination free for-all

**HundredK** · 03-10-2021, 07:52 PM

I live in CA and have friends all over the US. I suspect that problem isn't limited to our state. Nearly every single person I know who has gotten it has cut in line in some way... some by pretending to be in a profession they aren't, some by using connections they have to get one before they should, some who vaguely work for hospitals as administrative consultants claiming essential worker status. Agreed that I have heard they are not being asked for proof of employment, etc. I myself haven't gotten one, not will I try to cut the line, because I think the people in the high priority categories deserve first chance. I do agree the rollout has been frustrating here in CA and it feels like the tiers and rules aren't well thought out and are hard to keep track of (and hardly seem to matter in practice). If it weren't so frustrating, it would be a really interesting study on the "me first" mentality. I am just trying to be patient and I still think it might all get sorted before May. But it definitely adds frustration to see so many who don't qualify waltzing in to get them. On the bright side, I keep telling myself that every shot given is a shot closer to herd immunity, no matter who it's given to.

**kork13** · 03-10-2021, 08:08 PM

Just to offer some benefit of the doubt, especially for Drake's example of folks in the 55+ age group... It's entirely feasible that many of those folks who are "cutting in line" do have a legitimate chronic illness that puts them at increased risk, and thus legitimately closer to the front oof the line. The list of those illnesses is quite lengthy, and many of them are positively correlated to the older age brackets.

But realistically, yes -- many people are taking advantage of the minimal oversight & getting the vaccine sooner than intended. Eventually the idea is that everyone who wants the vaccine will get it. While dishonesty is disappointing, it's not exactly a shock, nor is it likely to dramatically change the nation's overall picture.

It's cold & calculating, but when it comes down to it, a nationwide vaccination campaign has a single solitary purpose -- vaccinate as many people as fast as possible. Strategically, the prioritization of certain groups (beyond truly essential medical, security, etc. personnel) is frankly just a "feel good" measure. Could the line-jumping result in unnecessary illness/death in the truly more susceptible population segments? Potentially. But the overarching goal of maximum vaccination is still met, and will be effective regardless of who receives them.

(Forgive my cold analysis -- military mind speaking)

**Jluke** · 03-10-2021, 11:25 PM

Sorry for your frustrations

at least people are actually getting the vaccine (double meaning)

**disneysteve** · 03-11-2021, 05:05 AM

My advice? Change your mindset.

The one and only goal is to vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible. That's it.

The whole tier thing and priority list is all feel-good posturing, as kork said.

Even the tiers aren't as perfect as one might think. The guy who works in a back office doing data entry for our hospital system could get his shot just as soon as the nurse who works on the COVID unit.

And prioritizing the elderly? Sure, they are more likely to get seriously ill if they catch COVID, but they're far less likely to catch it. My 90-year-old mother has barely left her apartment for a year. She got her shot. I'd much rather see the healthy 20-year-old college student who is out and about, attending classes, traveling to and from home, and interacting with hundreds of people get her shot. I saw a story yesterday about some lady who is getting her vaccine on her 100th birthday. Surely there is someone who could use that shot more than her. My friend who works from home but has 3 young children in school and elderly parents is trying every route he can to get a vaccine. He needs it a lot more than a 100-year-old lady.

Should people lie or cheat? Of course not. Does it matter in the end? Not a bit. The more people who get the vaccine the better.

In just one day last week, 2.9 million doses were given. At that pace, we could vaccinate every man, woman, and child in America in 114 days. Since there is no pediatric vaccine yet, all of the eligible people could be vaccinated in about 85 days. 10% of the country is already fully vaccinated. 30% have had at least one dose.

**ua_guy** · 03-11-2021, 07:16 AM

I agree - getting shots in arms is the priority. The rank and file is less important, although, I do have strong opinions about who should be vaccinated first. My sister, a 3rd grade teacher, was required to return to the classroom at the behest of angry parents who wanted their kids back in school. They aren't wrong, but, the teachers weren't vaccinated. How is that safe or just? I was ready to protest on the governor's lawn for her!! Our governor has since changed course and opened up eligibility to educators--which I commend. My sister got her her appointment right away and is due for her second shot here real soon. I'm thankful/relieved and know I she is feeling a lot better about going back too. Excited, actually, because teaching is what she loves to do. The worrying will be greatly reduced.

The administrative burden of proving/verifying and documenting medical conditions would be way too much. I become eligible in the next round here in April and I expect there will be plenty of line-cutting. It's easier to fake a medical condition like hypertension than it is age (which is visual), and lots of people are eager to get out and about as spring rolls around. It has crossed my mind that because my husband and I do have high-risk conditions, that we might try to get a head start. But, we have played by the rules this far, and we have set ourselves up so that we are in no danger if we have to wait longer.

I do agree. The whole thing is a ****show. But I also think a lot of people are trying to do their best and put a semblance of order to this. As a nation, we have not rehearsed for this in modern times and I stand in awe at how many vaccinations have already been given. If nothing else, we will have many lessons learned and a framework for doing better in the future if we are faced with this situation again.

**Like2Plan** · 03-11-2021, 07:16 AM

Firstly, I would rather folks get the vaccine than having it thrown away. There were places that actually threw away vaccine (due to not using up all the doses in one vial at the end of the day) because they did not have eligible people and there were severe penalties in place for giving it to a non-eligible person. I hope that has changed!

I know it is frustrating to try to find an appointment if you are in the eligible group. I had a real heck of a time finding an appointment for my 88 year old Mom. I think some of the problem is the complexity of signing up (all the web sites are different).

I also think some of the problem is they keep adding new eligible groups before they take care of the higher priority groups. One way to get the vaccine in my state is you sign up with the county and they control the list. (There is also separate availability through some commercial entities). So, in my county they allowed folks over 65 to sign up for the waiting list on 18 Jan.--and then they moved school teachers to the front of the line (they want to reopen schools). I just took a peek at the waiting list--they are currently scheduling 65+ folks who signed up on the 22 of Jan. Meanwhile, they have opened up the sign up list to the next eligible group of people. So, I think it gives folks an unrealistic expectation on how long they are going to have to wait (and when you are waiting, it feels like there is no end in sight).

I have been trying to help family and friends who are still looking for an appointment. I start my morning doing searches in several states. The other interesting thing is that the rules are different state to state. Sometimes the commercial sites are more restrictive. For example, even though my state has opened up vaccinations to folks below 65 with certain underlying medical conditions--you can't sign up on the commercial sites--they are more restrictive. They will only take over 65 or teacher (maybe because it is easier for them to verify?) I suppose they will adjust the age down as more folks get their vaccines.

**disneysteve** · 03-11-2021, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Like2Plan View Post

I think some of the problem is the complexity of signing up (all the web sites are different).

Definitely part of the problem is that the system is almost entirely online. That's great for many of us, but a lot of seniors aren't tech savvy and may not even have a computer or internet access.

I also think some of the problem is they keep adding new eligible groups before they take care of the higher priority groups.

They can't possibly reach everybody in a particular group in a set period of time. What I've seen is they open it up to a group for a couple of weeks and then open the next group. It's kind of like when you're boarding a plane. First it's zone 1. Then it's zone 1 and 2. Then it's zone 1, 2, and 3, and so on.

**Like2Plan** · 03-11-2021, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

They can't possibly reach everybody in a particular group in a set period of time. What I've seen is they open it up to a group for a couple of weeks and then open the next group. It's kind of like when you're boarding a plane. First it's zone 1. Then it's zone 1 and 2. Then it's zone 1, 2, and 3, and so on.

No, but if they haven't served any of zone 1 and they add zone 2 to the waiting list, it is going to cause a lot of frustration for the folks in zone2. I put off getting my pneumonia shot because you can't have the covid 19 shot if you have had any other vaccine within 14 days. Since I was on the wait list, I had to be ready to get COVID shot when my opportunity came up.... (Turns out I had plenty of time to get the pneumonia shot by the time my opportunity for the covid shot came up).

I was surprised to find my next door neighbor (I think she is actually above 75) was still on the waiting list even after they started taking 65+ people (I don't know what happened there). I helped her by finding a commercial site that she could sign up for.

**rennigade** · 03-11-2021, 03:13 PM

Doctors and medical personal should obviously be the first in line for vaccines. Next should have been grocery store workers. Those poor people didn't get any time off to hide in their basements. They were at work since the pandemic began. Forget the elderly, get the grocery workers vaccinated.

as for me, someone can have my shot. I don't plan on getting it.

**QuarterMillionMan** · 03-11-2021, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by rennigade View Post

Doctors and medical personal should obviously be the first in line for vaccines. Next should have been grocery store workers. Those poor people didn't get any time off to hide in their basements. They were at work since the pandemic began. Forget the elderly, get the grocery workers vaccinated.

as for me, someone can have my shot. I don't plan on getting it.

Agreed 100%, I would let grocery store workers go ahead of me.

**TexasHusker** · 03-12-2021, 05:49 AM

The vaccine should be a free-for-all. In many places, vaccine is going to waste, as local officials comply with the predictable draconian, bureaucratic rules.

In Amarillo, Texas, you show up at the civic center for your shot. No appointments. Hang nail? That’s an underlying health condition- get in line. They’ve never run short on vaccine. There are cars in the parking lot with license plates from coast to coast. 35% of our MSA has already had at least one shot.

**ua_guy** · 03-12-2021, 06:17 AM

Get ready for chaos. All adults will be eligible by May 1.

**disneysteve** · 03-12-2021, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by ua_guy View Post

Get ready for chaos. All adults will be eligible by May 1.

Why will that cause chaos? We've already given over 95 million doses with over 30 million fully vaccinated. I think they're pacing at about 2.5 million doses per day. May 1 is 7 weeks away, so 50 days x 2.5 million doses/day = 125,000,000 more doses will have been given by May 1, bringing the total to 220,000,000.

By May 1, the majority of the country that wants a vaccine will have already gotten at least their first dose. There are only about 250,000,000 adults in the US.

**Like2Plan** · 03-12-2021, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by QuarterMillionMan View Post

Agreed 100%, I would let grocery store workers go ahead of me.

Originally posted by rennigade View Post

Doctors and medical personal should obviously be the first in line for vaccines. Next should have been grocery store workers. Those poor people didn't get any time off to hide in their basements. They were at work since the pandemic began. Forget the elderly, get the grocery workers vaccinated.

as for me, someone can have my shot. I don't plan on getting it.

Maybe your state is different, but grocery store workers were one of the first groups to receive vaccine in my state (they were eligible back in January):

"Phase 1b will include Virginians 75 and up, grocery workers, teachers and childcare, police, fire, hazmat, corrections and homeless shelter workers, food and agriculture, manufacturing, public transit, and mail carriers."

https://www.wavy.com/covid-19-vaccin...-vaccinations/

Vaccination free for-all