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    #76
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    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

    -George Carlin

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      #77
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      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

      -George Carlin

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

        Studies are showing Pfizer and Moderna to have 90+ percent efficacy 28 days after the first shot. So those two are far more effective vaccines even after just one shot, than the old technology J&J vaccine.
        I had heard that the efficacy of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine was much lower after only one shot (like only 45-50%). But, I haven't seen the studies to which you are referring. (I was very happy to get the Moderna vaccine.) But, the point is-if it is a difference between getting no vaccine and the J&J vaccine, it is better to get the J&J vaccine.

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          #79
          "Since the study started in January, protection against symptomatic Covid, four weeks after the first dose, ranged between 57% and 61% for the Pfizer vaccine and between 60% and 73% for the AstraZeneca inoculation."

          link:
          https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/02/coro...s-working.html

          So, better than I thought. But, I still wouldn't forgo the second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna.





          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by Like2Plan View Post
            "Since the study started in January, protection against symptomatic Covid, four weeks after the first dose, ranged between 57% and 61% for the Pfizer vaccine and between 60% and 73% for the AstraZeneca inoculation."

            link:
            https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/02/coro...s-working.html

            So, better than I thought. But, I still wouldn't forgo the second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna.




            That study is British, and there is a vested interest in Britain to promote the vaccine of their own maker, Astra.

            FDA reporting low 90s % efficacy after one dose for Pfizer / Moderna.

            https://nypost.com/2021/02/18/single...ective-as-two/
            Last edited by TexasHusker; 03-29-2021, 03:38 AM.
            Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

            -George Carlin

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              #81
              Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

              I’m not sure what restrictions you are referring to, but if you do even a cursory comparison of all the states, regardless of their restrictions or lack thereof, the outcomes and trend lines are remarkably similar. Human behavior isn’t altering the behavior of this virus.

              Furthermore, the various restrictions were originally imposed to “flatten the curve” (which they didn’t), AND by doing so, keeping the hospitals from being overrun.

              In terms of the effectiveness of the masks, even the CDC’s own data, published (buried) in a December report, stated that masks “may” have “helped prevent” the spread of COVID by as much as 1.5% per day. Not 50,40,30,20,10, or even 5 percent. 1.5 percent. And that’s a “may have”.

              Today, the folks who were in any sort of vulnerable risk category have had the chance to receive a vaccine. While cases could be rising or falling week to week, CNN isn’t reporting that hospitalizations and deaths are plummeting. That’s because COVID is about like the flu for the 40-and-under crowd, who isn’t yet vaccinated.

              Simultaneously, some states are moving toward masking as a permanent new normal. That’s sad. This used to be a free country.
              The media will never allow covid to go away. We'll hear about it every single year. Who is easier to control and manipulate, those who are scared or those who are not? The amount of power and control the government now has and has used is scary. Never let a tragedy go to waste!

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                #82
                I have spent the weekend in Houston at a downtown Hilton that just reopened after a YEAR. Very limited restaurant offerings and operating hours, two or three linen items, no daily housekeeping, but they do have mask police everywhere. It’s sad while simultaneously frightening how masses of people have been so easily duped, and continue to be.
                Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

                -George Carlin

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

                  I’m not sure what restrictions you are referring to, but if you do even a cursory comparison of all the states, regardless of their restrictions or lack thereof, the outcomes and trend lines are remarkably similar. Human behavior isn’t altering the behavior of this virus.

                  Furthermore, the various restrictions were originally imposed to “flatten the curve” (which they didn’t), AND by doing so, keeping the hospitals from being overrun.

                  In terms of the effectiveness of the masks, even the CDC’s own data, published (buried) in a December report, stated that masks “may” have “helped prevent” the spread of COVID by as much as 1.5% per day. Not 50,40,30,20,10, or even 5 percent. 1.5 percent. And that’s a “may have”.

                  Today, the folks who were in any sort of vulnerable risk category have had the chance to receive a vaccine. While cases could be rising or falling week to week, CNN isn’t reporting that hospitalizations and deaths are plummeting. That’s because COVID is about like the flu for the 40-and-under crowd, who isn’t yet vaccinated.

                  Simultaneously, some states are moving toward masking as a permanent new normal. That’s sad. This used to be a free country.
                  "What exactly was the CDC studying?

                  Reed said the CDC's report “did not examine the effectiveness of masks.”
                  Instead, it analyzed the connection between mask mandate policies and the rate of new county-level coronavirus cases and deaths. It also examined the link between allowing on-site restaurant dining and the number of coronavirus cases and deaths."


                  "The claim that a CDC study found face masks to have a negligible effect on the spread of COVID-19 is FALSE. The study referenced in the One America News Network report says the opposite, noting that mask mandates were linked to “statistically significant decreases” in COVID-19 case within 20 days of implementation."

                  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ns/6938262002/

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Like2Plan View Post

                    "What exactly was the CDC studying?

                    Reed said the CDC's report “did not examine the effectiveness of masks.”
                    Instead, it analyzed the connection between mask mandate policies and the rate of new county-level coronavirus cases and deaths. It also examined the link between allowing on-site restaurant dining and the number of coronavirus cases and deaths."


                    "The claim that a CDC study found face masks to have a negligible effect on the spread of COVID-19 is FALSE. The study referenced in the One America News Network report says the opposite, noting that mask mandates were linked to “statistically significant decreases” in COVID-19 case within 20 days of implementation."

                    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ns/6938262002/
                    Is 1.5% per day a “statistically significant decrease”? Ok.

                    You are correct: The purpose of the CDC study was not mask effectiveness per se. The CDC doesn’t want that result. Yet the results that they DID publish merely add to the mountain of statistical evidence that clearly suggests that human behavior did not blunt the spread of COVID in any measurable way.

                    Persisting in arguing otherwise is, at this point, laughable.
                    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

                    -George Carlin

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

                      While cases could be rising or falling week to week, CNN isn’t reporting that hospitalizations and deaths are plummeting.
                      In our hospital system, we were down to 79 hospitalized COVID patients on 3/14. By last week, we were back up to 123, the highest since mid February. So at least here, hospitalizations are definitely not plummeting. Just the opposite.

                      As for always hearing about COVID, that's likely true. Most epidemiologists expect COVID to become endemic, meaning it will always be with us, just like the flu. And I suspect we will need an annual booster vaccine, just like the flu. The ideal would be if they can come out with a combined shot so that one shot covers both.
                      Steve

                      * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                      * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                      * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                        In our hospital system, we were down to 79 hospitalized COVID patients on 3/14. By last week, we were back up to 123, the highest since mid February. So at least here, hospitalizations are definitely not plummeting. Just the opposite.

                        As for always hearing about COVID, that's likely true. Most epidemiologists expect COVID to become endemic, meaning it will always be with us, just like the flu. And I suspect we will need an annual booster vaccine, just like the flu. The ideal would be if they can come out with a combined shot so that one shot covers both.
                        Until we have widespread vaccinations, I expect hospitalizations to fluctuate, yet never approach the peaks we had pre-vaccine.
                        Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

                        -George Carlin

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

                          That study is British, and there is a vested interest in Britain to promote the vaccine of their own maker, Astra.

                          FDA reporting low 90s % efficacy after one dose for Pfizer / Moderna.

                          https://nypost.com/2021/02/18/single...ective-as-two/
                          Those are certainly good results. It could be that in the UK they were dealing with the UK variant.

                          This is anecdotal--so meaningless really, but I have heard of folks who got COVID after being vaccinated which was unexpected when I first learned about it. I have no way of knowing when they exposed (before being vaccinated? within 2 weeks of the first dose?) and they didn't get hospitalized, so I guess not a severe case. (I also know someone who was exposed to someone who had a laboratory confirmed case of COVID 2 weeks after the first dose of Pfizer and did not get COVID).

                          But, I will say what I find troubling is that the infection rates have been going up in some places--for example: Michigan and New York--lots of east coast states despite the vaccination rates going up. My own state (VA) has not come down as much as I would expect-- VA has been in the top 20 (in terms of COVID infections) for several weeks. I would like to know why--new variant? what? I really hope the vaccine holds up against the variants.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

                            Until we have widespread vaccinations, I expect hospitalizations to fluctuate, yet never approach the peaks we had pre-vaccine.
                            I think that's a fair statement. 143 million Americans have had at least one shot and 52 million are fully vaccinated, and those numbers are rising quickly by 2-3 million/day. We're definitely past the worst of it.
                            Steve

                            * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                            * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                            * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by Like2Plan View Post

                              This is anecdotal--so meaningless really, but I have heard of folks who got COVID after being vaccinated which was unexpected when I first learned about it. I have no way of knowing when they exposed (before being vaccinated? within 2 weeks of the first dose?) and they didn't get hospitalized, so I guess not a severe case. (I also know someone who was exposed to someone who had a laboratory confirmed case of COVID 2 weeks after the first dose of Pfizer and did not get COVID).
                              I know a number of people who got COVID despite being fully vaccinated, and it happened long after the 2nd dose so they couldn't have been infected at the time of the vaccination. It's going to happen. The vaccine isn't 100% effective. There are still going to be cases even if every single person gets vaccinated, which isn't going to happen.

                              But, I will say what I find troubling is that the infection rates have been going up in some places--for example: Michigan and New York--lots of east coast states despite the vaccination rates going up. My own state (VA) has not come down as much as I would expect-- VA has been in the top 20 (in terms of COVID infections) for several weeks. I would like to know why--new variant? what? I really hope the vaccine holds up against the variants.
                              Cases have been rising in NJ. The variants might be part of the issue. And, of course, relaxed restrictions and people changing their behavior is behind a lot of it. As more things open and more people gather and mask usage decreases, we will see more cases. There's no good way around that. It won't reach the level it was at during the peak, but it's going to happen.

                              Remember, "flattening the curve" wasn't about decreasing the total number of cases. It was about spreading them out over a longer period of time so the healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed. And that worked very well.
                              Steve

                              * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                              * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                              * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by disneysteve View Post


                                Remember, "flattening the curve" wasn't about decreasing the total number of cases. It was about spreading them out over a longer period of time so the healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed. And that worked very well.

                                Or the virus did what viruses do, and flattened its own curve, which is what the overwhelming evidence tells us. Human behavior isn’t changing the behavior of this virus.
                                Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

                                -George Carlin

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