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    #91
    I think I'm going to have to side with you instead of your wife this time. I thought you posted that you get to keep the leftover money. I don't recall you stating that you had to add to savings with this restricted budget. I assumed the leftover money would be for you to do with what you want. If you need to save part of your budget, there probably should be a set amount added to your budget that is earmarked for savings, and then an agreement that it will only be used for certain things. And in the grand scheme of things, you spent an extra $28. It really isn't that big of a deal if it was from your allowance and not taken out of her purse.

    However, I still completely understand why your wife is acting like this. To her, you didn't learn your lesson and you are right back at square one. She needs to keep in mind that you didn't overstep your own budget and she still has control over the rest of the money. But now that she took away your budget, she also took away your responsibility. Instead of you being able to say that you don't have any money because you overspent, now you can tell yourself that you don't have any money because she took it away. You don't learn from your mistakes if you don't have to suffer through them because of your own actions.

    So....what did you spend it on?

    Comment


      #92
      Her reaction of actually YELLING at you for slipping up and not managing to completely reverse a lifetime of a bad spending habbit in a few short months is frankly, completely inappropriate. And quite frankly, I think that you both need to take a step back and consider the way nit picking every single dollar and decision is going to impact your mental health and your marraige.

      I get that she's trying to teach you some important life lessons about budgeting and handling your money correctly, but the whole point of you getting an allowance was so that she has the rest of the money to make sure that the bills and important finances get dealt with. If you happen to save up your allowance and then decide to blow it on something stupid, that should be your choice. And yes, she's absolutely allowed to disagree with your choice and think that it was stupid, but it shouldn't result in her screaming at you or threatening to withhold the measly change that you're given, which is mostly to pay for gas that you need to get to your job anyway. I mean, are you kidding me?!

      Did you both ACTUALLY think that by really focusing on your bad habits that you were going to just be totally perfect at this from now on? You really need take a reality check and realize that you're battling a long term pattern. It's like smoking, most people and up smoking a few here and there before they ultimately quit. Is that a good thing? Nope. Is it the end of the world? Also nope. Is it a reason to berate yourself to the point where you're going to develop some serious self esteem issues, or eventually have a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship? Hell no.

      Comment


        #93
        Originally posted by breathemusic View Post
        Her reaction of actually YELLING at you for slipping up and not managing to completely reverse a lifetime of a bad spending habbit in a few short months is frankly, completely inappropriate. And quite frankly, I think that you both need to take a step back and consider the way nit picking every single dollar and decision is going to impact your mental health and your marraige.

        I get that she's trying to teach you some important life lessons about budgeting and handling your money correctly, but the whole point of you getting an allowance was so that she has the rest of the money to make sure that the bills and important finances get dealt with. If you happen to save up your allowance and then decide to blow it on something stupid, that should be your choice. And yes, she's absolutely allowed to disagree with your choice and think that it was stupid, but it shouldn't result in her screaming at you or threatening to withhold the measly change that you're given, which is mostly to pay for gas that you need to get to your job anyway. I mean, are you kidding me?!

        Did you both ACTUALLY think that by really focusing on your bad habits that you were going to just be totally perfect at this from now on? You really need take a reality check and realize that you're battling a long term pattern. It's like smoking, most people and up smoking a few here and there before they ultimately quit. Is that a good thing? Nope. Is it the end of the world? Also nope. Is it a reason to berate yourself to the point where you're going to develop some serious self esteem issues, or eventually have a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship? Hell no.
        Ditto to this.

        I applaud your efforts but I think you need to give yourself some credit. Your consequence of frivolous spending is that you no longer have that savings cushion that you once had and the disappointment in yourself. You didn’t go negative so you remained within your budget. You didn’t fail

        This is how budgeting works. Some weeks spending will be a little more, some a little less, just don’t go negative and you’re staying within your budget.

        You’re doing an amazing job.

        I’d encourage you to look to see what drove you to spend more than you planned and see if you can prevent that from happening in the future. Also, just my two cents but I’d advocate for you to receive the allowance. That’s 4 weeks of budgeting experience and learning that you’re missing out on.

        Comment


          #94
          It sounds like you got grounded, like a child.
          And being screamed at, as you put it, doesn't sound healthy.

          I think you need to do a couple things:

          1) Give yourself a little more credit and stop beating yourself up so bad. It's only been a couple months, and you only spent $28. Her being furious and yelling over that doesn't sound right, unless you are exaggerating. It's not like you just cashed out your 401K and lost it all at the track.

          2) Work with your wife to find a better approach to this situation. It seems like she is treating you like a child and mentally abusing you in the process.

          Good luck.
          Brian

          Comment


            #95
            First, let me clarify, yes she did raise her voice when she discovered it. What she said was, what’s this? You blew through all your money? Are you back to your old ways already? At least now it doesn’t impact our budget. I almost don’t want to give you allowance! She immediately calmed down, I think it was the surprise of seeing essentially no money in my account, when she was expecting to see some. She has already apologized about her immediate reaction. At the time I didn’t think much of it, and she was exasperated that I had blown through “all” that money. As noted I felt ashamed, so I felt getting “yelled” at, was not at all unreasonable.

            My wife and I had a long conversation after looking over the comments. Yes, we know this is going to be a long process that is why it is currently for at least 3 years. But both us (yes both) were surprised that I had “gone off the wagon” so fast. We each had our individual reactions to this, which made the moment go the way it did. There were no hurt feelings. I don’t feel that I am being abused in any way, we are both occasionally quick to react and sometimes loudly. I forget not everyone is like us.

            She did offer to give me back my allowance, but I said I need to be held accountable and for the short run not being able to spend will probably be a good thing for me. But with all the input she decided to split the difference and give me $10/week for 4 weeks. (My allowance is separate from my gas money, which of course I am still getting.)

            Please note, I don’t have to save any of my money, but both us looked at it as a badge of honor, that on a restricted amount of money I wasn’t spending it all. It was just that I did this so soon and that I didn’t even mention it to her (that was part of the reason for her response). We are both working through this. Yes, she is happy that this didn’t impact her budget and she said that in the future she won’t be surprised if I do this again, just a little disappointed. We’ve agreed to talk more and not react to a situation where this is concerned.

            P.S. I spent the money on a couple of expensive lunches.

            Comment


              #96
              As someone who very much supported this decision, I think your wife is in the wrong here, unless we all missed something. Whether you saved it or not each week, your money was your money to spend as you liked. If you saved it good for you, if you spent it but still stayed within your budget good for you. You didn't bring disaster to the family coffers as you used to do. You spent it. So what, it was yours to spend. NO apologies needed !

              Imagine twins Billy and Bobby. Parents give them $5 allowance every week. At the end of the month, Billy has saved $12 and Bobby saved $1. Does that mean because Billy was the 'good' kid and saved money he gets his full allowance, but because Bobby spent all but $1 he is the 'bad' kid and so doesn't get his full allowance for the next month? Hardly. The allowance was there to spend, to save and then spend, or to squirrel it all away. It was theirs. No good or bad to it.

              Your wife has treated you like an overgrown child that did something 'bad'. You didn't. You spent your allowance. You didn't get into debt. You didn't kick a dog. You didn't do anything illegal. Within most marriages where spouses have allowances, it is considered each spouses money to do with as they like with no consequences at all. What did your wife spend from her allowance? Does she have one? Perhaps not, but she has the entire rest of your paycheck to use as needed.

              I think she is being unreasonable and so are you. You shouldn't have part of your allowance taken away, because you spent it. It was yours to spend or to save, but as long as you didn't go below zero, you are completely 100% in the right on how you handled your money. No reason to feel bad. If I could, I would tell your wife that her reaction was way overboard and you should get your full allowance, with no deductions just because you spent some of it or almost all of it. It doesn't matter, yours to spend. Unless I'm mistaken, she is in charge of the savings for you guys as a family. You weren't supposed to be adding another way to save for retirement or whatever. The purpose of this experiment which she seems to have forgotten, or I misunderstood is for you to learn to get along on a limited amount of money for the next three years so that you can change some really bad spending habits. It will never work if the rules keep changing in mid-stream. I know you 'asked' to be 'punished' more or less, but I think that was due to her treating you like a child, and as the example of Billy and Bobby what she is trying to do with you would not even be acceptable with children nor would most parents think that just because one kid spent more of his allowance than the other, that he should be penalized.

              Hope you two get this sorted out. Since she is in charge of the finances, is she setting aside money for you two to go out on 'dates' occasionally? If she is pouring it all into savings instead of using some to support you as a couple there may be some non-financial consequences.
              Gailete
              http://www.MoonwishesSewingandCrafts.com

              Comment


                #97
                I think if your happy, great......... but I did not think this was a method I would ever participate in from the start.
                Gailete is correct it was your money to spend or Save no questions asked. I do not think being on such a short leash is going to teach you how to manage money any better. Like any skill it takes practice and you will have wins and sometimes losses. No one learns responsibility when they are not given a chance to show they can be responsible.
                Sooner or later one of these dust ups will, in my opinion, lead to resentment regardless of how happy she is.
                I would have never agreed to longer then a year at a time especially when this was a small incident to get worked up over.

                Comment


                  #98
                  Originally posted by DanaFinance View Post
                  P.S. I spent the money on a couple of expensive lunches.
                  I see no issues with this.

                  I didn't want to jump to any conclusions, but my initial reaction was that your wife was being too hard on you.

                  Comment


                    #99
                    I'll reiterate, that if the GOAL was for you to learn to both spend and save accordingly, then that should have been communicated and negotiated UP FRONT. And you should have been given an appropriate allowance that would allow for you to spend what you both considered a REASONABLE amount and also save a REASONABLE amount. THAT would be a way to practice saving. If that were the case, then maybe you decide that well the allowance was $20 a week because that was a reasonable amount for you to spend each week, but you should try to save as much as you spend, so you're going to get $40 each week and it's YOUR job to then practice that and try to only spend $20 and save $20. If you go over on savings, great! If you go under, well, that sucks and hopefuly you learn and recoup by saving more in other weeks, but either way, it's all happening within your own $40 per week budget so it's not hurting the family and it's a lesson for YOU to learn. But ask anyone who budgets, INCLUDING YOUR WIFE and you don't spend the exact same amount from week to week. Bills change, and heck, even the frivilous spending changes from week to week. That's just how money works.

                    As for the "surprise." Again, did you negotiate that any time you had to dip into your OWN savings from you allowance that you had to tell her? If not, then you didn't break any agreements. Sure, she may have been surprised, but it was your money and your budget to manage. If she expects to be notified about your spending, then that's something that you need to agree to up front. Getting mad over an expectation that you didn't even share with someone isn't ok.

                    I'm glad you guys talked it out and things are good between you.... but you both also need to be realistic about your goals and expectations. And I will reiterate, cutting your allowance isn't going to teach you anything because it's not giving you any money to get practice with. Even cutting it in half isn't teaching you the valuable lesson of being able to do the budgeting work yourself. That's a poor way to learn. You want a consequence? The argument and disappointment IS a consequence. The fact that you now don't have any savings to be able to treat yourself to something later, or save more toward some goal IS a consequence.

                    Comment


                      I think I need to provide to some clarification and explanation. I probably didn’t elaborate nearly enough.

                      My wife is not the villain here, most of the recent has been driven by me. Let me explain, but first some insight all the way back to the beginning.

                      While at first I was only somewhat supportive of the of separate accounts with her being in charge of almost all of the money, after getting feedback here that helped me understand where she was coming from, I actually embraced the idea. She has always been essentially in charge of the finances, but I was messing things up. So, the idea of not having access to the main money and being given a small amount of money that would not impact the overall situation, became very appealing. I wanted to help her out. It would give my wife peace of mind, and if I messed up it wouldn’t impact the main money. After years of just the opposite, this was, and is, the best way forward. Whether you agree or not we both love it. She loves the peace of mind and I love not being able to mess things up. That is why I agreed to extend this for 3 years, at least. May be I am wimping out, but giving her the level of control over the finances that she has and deserves and myself having a different and lesser role, especially in the day to day aspects feels very right to me. Big purchases will always be discussed.

                      Now to the more recent events. First let me reiterate that even though it is my money, I felt very bad and embarrassed that I had blown through it all so soon after starting this. That is on me and that was my reaction. I also knew she would be exasperated over it-going from having extra to none in a short period of time, just because it has been obviously a deep topic of discussion for several months. Did she initially overreact, probably. Did she calm down immediately, yes. Did we have a reasonable discussion at that point, yes. Did that change my feelings about what I had done, no.

                      Her comment about not giving me an allowance was a flippant one in a fit of pique. She didn’t really mean it obviously, as she gave me my allowance, but for whatever reason I locked onto it. Probably because I was so personally bothered about what I had done. Now I have stated multiple times that when I brought up not getting an allowance for a while, she was resistant to the idea. I, however, was very insistent that I really needed to have this consequence (punishment as Gailette called it). I went so far as to tell my wife I would somehow give the money back to her, that I really didn’t want my allowance for a while. Did I overreact, probably, but it was just how I felt.

                      When we first discussed it, and I said she eventually liked the idea, that was after I had emphatically stressed that I needed to be held accountable and that I really needed my allowance taken away for a period of time. Once she agreed, she liked the idea of having more money in the coming month. After everyone’s input she really thought she should give me my allowance back, that is when I said that somehow any allowance I received would be given back. We discussed how was I supposed to learn to budget if this was continued, we went back and forth and she finally got me to agree to the $10 per week, and that I would actually keep that amount. It was important to me to have less money after the incident, because I realized how many times in the past she had to figure out how to deal with the fact that she had less money after I had overspent.

                      She said in the future, if I do this, she won’t overreact as it won’t be a surprise, nor will she agree to take my allowance away, that she’ll let me “learn my lesson” this one time since I was so insistent.

                      This is a long process and we are just at the beginning and working things out. We do appreciate everyone’s input, even when they “switch sides”.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by DanaFinance View Post
                        She has always been essentially in charge of the finances,
                        Originally posted by DanaFinance View Post
                        I wanted to help her out.
                        Originally posted by DanaFinance View Post
                        It would give my wife peace of mind
                        Originally posted by DanaFinance View Post
                        She loves the peace of mind
                        Originally posted by DanaFinance View Post
                        it is my money
                        "It's our money"

                        -Dave Ramsey


                        I think this is why you never learn how to work with your wife about money and staying on a budget because she has always been in charge. Try switching it around, how about you be in charge handling the money, paying the bills, and staying on a monthly budget. Don't get me wrong, this is not easy, but testing this theory requires complete commitment on both sides to work.

                        Don't feel defeated, take the challenge. Let you be in charge!
                        Got debt?
                        www.mo-moneyman.com

                        Comment


                          I disagree it's your fault. It's still a partnership and you get an equal and fair shake. You were put on a budget and you are allowed to spend the budget. She isn't allowed to judge or comment or yell or be angry. You agreed to not touch what is her money and family money. So I'm confused why she's mad?

                          Realize also I'm the wife in my relationship and i think it's disrespectful to treat any man or woman that way. It's not good relationship karma. Perhaps you disagree and perhaps you can't work easily together. But if all you do is get angry then why are you together?
                          LivingAlmostLarge Blog

                          Comment


                            It doesn’t seem like anyone is likely to change your mind about whether or not spending down the budget surplus you managed to accumulate was wrong, but I’d like to propose two additional thoughts on the matter anyway.

                            First, I think it’s important for any budgeting plan to be sustainable. While it’s good to learn restraint and how to occasionally do without, living in constant deprecation mode gets stressful and makes it harder to keep going. I think it’s better to set reasonable limits and stick to them. You’re not going to change from a person who loves to spend freely to the model of frugality in a matter of weeks, and you may never get there. There’s no shame in being a person who spends right up to the limits of a budget. All that matters in the end is staying within the budget.

                            I would also suggest that there are natural consequences to spending down the surplus that make a punishment redundant. Not having a surplus sounds pretty limiting. There are likely to be things you’ll have to pass on for awhile because a week or two of allowances isn’t enough. It also sounds like just having that surplus was making you feel good. Personally, I’d let that intrinsic motivation drive me to continue rather than place tighter restrictions on myself.

                            Comment


                              While it’s good to learn restraint and how to occasionally do without, living in constant deprecation mode gets stressful and makes it harder to keep going.
                              I agree wholeheartedly on this one. I got sick and had to stop working and for those that don't know it can take 2-3 years to get approved for SS and short term disability, at least mine, ended after 6 months. But between many things we have had it rough for years now, to the point that the last two years on our taxes we officially owed none because we didn't have enough income. But one of the things that has helped my stress about it is, one coming here and finding and using ideas that have helped immensely and one other thing in particular.

                              Several years ago I was chosen to be on the Amazon Vine program where we read/use an item and review it. For a long time it was just books which was fine as I love to read and had no money to buy books. Then they started adding other items to the mix that they offered me and then changed the rules so that we weren't limited to how many items we can get. For the last 2-3 years it is like Santa is stopping in several times a week. I have gotten so many free items (Okay I do get a 1099 for their value of the items) I have no need to go window shopping, or shopping at all except for groceries. I have recieved a plethora of kitchen appliances. I still remember after my first wedding being surprised at not getting a single electric appliance, not even a toaster. Now I have just about all of them that we try out and see if it makes out lives easier in the kitchen. Within a week of getting a toaster oven - I'd never even been near one - I knew if it broke down we would be buying a new one.

                              I have gotten so many things, that I don't feel like I am doing without anything. What is really fun to see is right about the time that I realize I need something, like a rolling walker to get around with in stores without electric wheelchairs, one was on my list to get the next week! I feel absolutely blessed in so many ways.

                              But for those without blessing from Amazon, you do have to find ways to enjoy life even if on limited funds. One of the reasons I do hope that his wife is budgeting for their times out together. I don't get the idea that something like that is totally unaffordable for them, but the most important thing in a marriage is always be working on the marriage and spending time together.
                              Gailete
                              http://www.MoonwishesSewingandCrafts.com

                              Comment


                                This has been an interesting thread, for sure. You continue to mention your wife reads all the responses, so that means she reads your posts. I wonder how differently you would reply if she wasn't reading them. I also wonder how much of your tone and perspective are swayed in your responses knowing she was reading them, almost like you are shaming yourself as a way of agreeing with her. Maybe that isn't the case. Just something I thought about.

                                To the actual topic at hand. Knowing numbers and actual circumstances would really make this easier for us to put into perspective. Your reaction and level of guilt lines up more with unfaithfulness to the marriage vs racking up some debt. Yes, you need to take a drastic approach to avoid serious financial repercussions if you were digging into consumer debt or even spending all your cash flow, however, you are not a child, and you should never be treated as one(neither spouse should be).

                                Tremendous guilt, and being "punished" isn't going to change your view of money. It's only going to enforce boundaries. Boundaries that will be lifted when the guilt is gone and the fear of repercussions is no longer around. In other words, you will go back to old habits given enough time, unless you change how you view money. For a drastic, immediate change, this kind of thing can help put a reality check on the fact that a change must happen. But, to continue to push like this for years will be unhealthy. It sounds like she is not being respectful of you, even though she probably doesn't mean to be disrespectful. While limiting yourself so severely, you need to be educating yourself on why the bad habits are bad.

                                You needed more transparency(accountability) and financial education of the effects of living above your means. Not a spanking. If you leave her to this, she could find herself in a similar situation due to no accountability for her. It's not good that either side pulls out of finances. Also, if something happened to her you could end up in a terrible situation. The problem isn't your habit, it's your view of money that drives that habit.

                                The amount of money you two have agreed for you seems rather unrealistic for what she expects out of you. When we underfund a category in our budget, it simply will not work out. It will go over. If you make unrealistic expectations, you will continuously feel like a failure when it doesn't work. You are not overspending, you are underfunding. It's a common misconception, but one that leads to feeling inadequate, and ultimately defeated. Either you need to be allowed to spend as you would like with that allowance, or you need to just save the money and not spend. Being "punished" because you only had $2 instead of $7 in a week isn't fair to you. That is more of what I expect out of my 10 yr old, not out of the breadwinner for the house.

                                Anyway, I am trying not to get too strong of an opinion(probably too late) because I don't want to discredit you guys working on this. I'm proud you have been figuring out something that works. I just think you need to take a step back, and address the real issues here. Why you do what you do, not just what you do. Read some books, and get a desire to win with money. Set your own boundaries. Be successful together. That'll improve your marriage far more than the current setup would.
                                Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes that reason is you're stupid and make bad choices.

                                Comment

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