car loans and newer cars and electric. Run the math with me

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I like our cars a 2015 sienna and 2016 legacy. I wouldn't be adverse to something electric or something newer, but it's not in the priority list right now. We have a lot of other bills to pay and the cars run. Our cars serve their purpose.

That being said again my FIL tells me I should be buying a tesla or at a minimum replacing our Legacy with a new electric vehicle. He keeps harping on how we are spending money on gas. This guy is the world's cheapest person but he keeps telling me that the tesla self-driving is going to only go up, and gas prices are so high that we are going to save a boatload on an electric car.

I spend $2k/year on gas probably $3k. I told him this and I have a spreadsheet of every gallon and price filled since we bought it. So I know what I spend. Maybe i"m thinking about this the wrong way. But I don't see a problem paying $3k/year in gas for two cars that are still relatively new and running well. If I bought a new electric car not a tesla (which is substantially more) for say $40k, would it make sense? Does the math work out?

I don't think so mostly because I assume it would be $10k selling legacy and then $30k to come up with. That is 10 years of driving my gas car. So if I wait another 10 years or until I really need a new car, or I make more money that it doesn't matter what I buy then it would make sense. I'm not even sure buying used would make sense.

Anyone here selling their car for an electric car? Why did you do it? How did the math work out? Was it because you needed a new car? Or just because you wanted a new car and could afford it? Did it make sense? You guys are all financial people so either it made sense financially or you know it and just wanted it.

I'm not getting rid of a minivan for the Tesla X it's ridiculously expensive and I would never make it back. I had a neighbor who put in solar panels and was looking at a used 2019 X, turns out she had a hard time justifying $70k used car when she still needed a minivan size (3 kids) car and a used minivan could be had for $15k to replace their used 2009 minivan. She said they wanted it but....I pointed out she's better off buying a cheap electric car to replace their 2013 benz sedan for a run around car and then replacing the minivan with another mininvan. but maybe I'm thinking about it wrong.

[myrdale]

Electric cars are a fantasy in my opinion.

"Its great for the environment" except for 60% of our electricity still comes from fossil fuels. And I am not saying its bad, I'm saying your electric car isn't running on sun shine and rainbows.

"Its great for the environment" except for the quantity of rare earth materials which go into the battery.

"Its great for the environment" except the carbon footprint of electric cars is only 25% less that of gasoline cars.

"Its great for the environment" except for when the electric charger burns your house down.

[Like2Plan]

No, I wouldn't sell my car to buy an electric car. I don't know if supply issues have eased up since last year, but it was the wild-wild west when I was in the process of buying my new car last year.

I would consider buying an electric car if I was already in the market for a new car. (Which I was last year.) Honestly, my preferred vehicle was the RAV4 hybrid. But, the demand (in my area) was so great that the prices were really inflated. And the sales reps were not very nice about it. I ended up with a Subaru Crosstrek.

Past calculations on fuel efficiency vs the initial price difference in the cars I compared did not break favorable for the fuel efficient vehicle. The price of fuel would have to be a lot higher than it is currently to break even.

And, my state has imposed an additional tax on "fuel efficient cars" (which is defined as anything 25mph or higher). They want to get the revenue they would have received from buying gas at the pump.

[disneysteve]

Selling one car to buy a newer car to "save" on fuel virtually never makes sense financially. The nominal savings you'll realize is greatly offset by the expense of the new car. And as L2P mentioned, some states are starting to tax efficient vehicles in another way to make up for the reduced income from gas taxes.

I really wonder about the longevity of e-cars, too. You can go to any antique car show today and see vehicles that are up to 100 years old. Will anyone be pulling up to an antique car show in 100 years with a 2020 Tesla?

[Jluke]

Further proof where math skills are important.

General example: why spend 10k more for electric / hybrid version just so you can say you are saving on gas.

[bjl584]

I would not replace a paid for well running gas car for an electric one to "save" money.

If you simply want to do then, then go for it, but the math usually points to you not saving money.

[MonkeyMama]

Anyone here selling their car for an electric car? Why did you do it? How did the math work out? Was it because you needed a new car? Or just because you wanted a new car and could afford it? Did it make sense? You guys are all financial people so either it made sense financially or you know it and just wanted it.

Yes. It was because we bought a plug-in hybrid and could no longer stand our gas car.
Both. It was sound financially but it was the first time we really bought a car because we wanted it.

Two points.
1 -Used electric cars cost pennies. They cost pennies when we first started considering and when we bought. This is becoming less true given crazy used car market and more competitive electric cars with fast charge and 300-mile range.
2 - We bought our car in 2020 when everyone forgot that gas is expensive. With gas prices rising, just makes electric cars more expensive. We spend very little on cars, so would be completely beyond our price point today.

For reference, I looked up our car the other day and it would cost $30K with the additional 20K miles we have put on it. !! We only paid $17K for the car. Plus we traded in our gas car, so it was only a few thousand dollars of cash to significantly upgrade our car. Was going from something more basic to more of a luxury level car.

We are saving about $3K per year on fuel and maintenance. The car will pay for itself very quickly. Was not at all why we bought our cars, but it's gravy that the fuel savings will pay for itself.
{Edited to clarify that $3K math was done in 2018/2020. Gas prices are up about 20%, so might be closer to $3,500/year savings at this point. The only "maintenance" I included in the $3K figure was oil changes (not having to do them). EVs are extremely low maintenance and should save us a lot more over the long run.}

YMMV in other states. We have better battery warranties in our state and more charging infrastructure. Just because I am happy with it doesn't mean I'd recommend in other states.

I've already told LAL she risks wanting to upgrade all her cars to electric if she gets one. So something else to keep in mind. My husband has a hearing disability and so we put a huge premium on the quiet and is the main reason we bought our EV. Our gas car sounded like a wind tunnel compared to our plug-in EV. It was driving ME crazy.

If you haven't already made the switch and can afford the gas, I'd wait. Multiple 300-mile models are hitting the market that will charge in just 20 minutes. We will likely do an upgrade at some point (before our usual 15-year timeline; we keep our cars a long time). But for our current financial situation (paying for college and lots of college driving) I am fine with the slower charger. It gets the job done. We are waiting for used prices to come down. A 300-mile "charges in 20 minutes" car will drop to our price point in a few years. They are already making 400 and 500-mile range cars. They will just get faster at charging.

Note: We waited for the 300-mile range but bought one of the slowest charging cars on the market. Worked the best for us, cost/benefit wise. I can live with this car for 10+ years, if prices stay crazy.

[MonkeyMama]

P.S. I was just answering the question at hand.
2023 Chevy Bolt MSRP is only $25,600.

Sure there's some very expensive electric cars out there. Doesn't mean everyone paid $50K+ for them.

[ua_guy]

Selling one car to buy a newer car to "save" on fuel virtually never makes sense financially. The nominal savings you'll realize is greatly offset by the expense of the new car. And as L2P mentioned, some states are starting to tax efficient vehicles in another way to make up for the reduced income from gas taxes.

I really wonder about the longevity of e-cars, too. You can go to any antique car show today and see vehicles that are up to 100 years old. Will anyone be pulling up to an antique car show in 100 years with a 2020 Tesla?

People still keep electric cars from the 1870's alive It's pretty safe to say if a car was built, someone will try to preserve it forever. But that's car culture.

I think what you are mentioning has to do with obsolescence. 10 years is a really long time in the EV world.

[disneysteve]

People still keep electric cars from the 1870's alive .

Those weren’t supercomputers on wheels though.

[kork13]

Yeah, basically the same answers as everyone else. If you were already looking to replace your car due to age/mechanics/etc., then fine, look into electric or hybrids. But most electric cars, especially the high-end Tesla, will never make financial sense. It's a luxury car for crying out loud! If you but electric for financial reasons, it has to be like MonkeyMama's -- used, basic, and functional... if it's gonna even be close to making financial sense.

[MonkeyMama]

If you but electric for financial reasons, it has to be like MonkeyMama's -- used, basic, and functional... if it's gonna even be close to making financial sense.

I don't know if "basic" is a word I would use to describe my car. It practically drives itself. But most the cost savings has come with being able to live with less range or slower charging. (Or just being even earlier adopters). There will be ample opportunity for that as technology zooms forward.

[Drake3287]

Like many people we've talked about buying one down the road also, BUT the big question which hasn't really been answered is what happens when a hurricane strikes Florida and the power is out for a month, or maybe a tornado in Kansas and in my case a major earthquake in California. The list is endless. What are these people suppose to do for power for an extended period of time when they need their vehicle the most? Eventually this is going to happen and the sh1t is going to hit the fan on this new electric vehicle craze when it does. All it'll take is one hurricane in the south this season, you watch. And the amount of electric vehicles is almost 10 fold compared to just a few years ago.

[riverwed070707]

I think location matters a lot in whether this is even feasible right now. Our company switched to an electric vehicle fleet a few years ago and one of our sustainability execs thought it would be fun to drive one from the east side of our state to the west side for a conference.... this drive normally takes 4.5 hours and it took her 11 due to charging time and limited options of where to stop, plus she had to stop and swap cars halfway. It was an especially windy day which was part of the poor efficiency, but weather happens and you still need to get from A to B. We are starting to see some fast charging stations but the infrastructure is still lacking considerably.

For our fam, DH has an old, beat up Honda Element as his daily driver. I typically have the nicer (but still well used) of the two cars which I drive much less since I work from home but its also our family car - as in if more than one person is getting in the vehicle, we take mine. We use it for road trips, Sunday drives, and hauling construction materials when we're working on a real estate project. When I had to replace my car this year, I considered a hybrid but inventory was low and honestly, the ones that are 7-10 years old don't get that much better MPG than a fuel efficient gas car. If I were buying new or lightly pre-owned, I think I would choose a hybrid over gas or electric because its kind of the best of both for how we drive.

[ua_guy]

Like many people we've talked about buying one down the road also, BUT the big question which hasn't really been answered is what happens when a hurricane strikes Florida and the power is out for a month, or maybe a tornado in Kansas and in my case a major earthquake in California. The list is endless. What are these people suppose to do for power for an extended period of time when they need their vehicle the most? Eventually this is going to happen and the sh1t is going to hit the fan on this new electric vehicle craze when it does. All it'll take is one hurricane in the south this season, you watch. And the amount of electric vehicles is almost 10 fold compared to just a few years ago.

It's generous to think that gasoline and diesel supplies wouldn't be interrupted, contaminated, or that deliveries simply couldn't reach their destination in the event of natural disaster. Whole-home backup generators are becoming more popular and they typically run on stored energy like diesel or propane. It wouldn't be unthinkable to charge the car on that if you needed it. I think watching the weather forecast and charging the car before disaster strikes would be a good idea anyway.

Many households are 2-car households anyhow. Here in the dawn of charging infrastructure, having one internal combustion vehicle and one battery electric would pretty much cover all bases until EV's and charging infrastructure become more popular.

More on cost....No, it really doesn't make sense to get rid of a paid-off, functioning ICV for a battery electric just to save on fuel costs. That really draws out the breakeven. But if you're someone who leases a car normally and you opt to lease an EV on the next round, you might just save yourself a few hundred dollars a month in fuel costs compared to leasing another ICV.