Smoking the budget away

[DebbieL]

You should have left - why didn't you? Leave and let her get off her arse and buy her own cigarettes. She is a child abuser of the worst order encouraging a 12 year old to chain smoke. Shame on you for allowing this. You are contributing to the abuse. Harsh? No, just reality. You are both breaking the law by allowing this, and you are likely killing your daughter (slowly) by allowing this.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I think mom-in-missouri hit it on the head. It's child abuse. If another adult finds out, teacher, parent, etc they will report your wife and then where will you both be? If I were you I'd report her now and get out.

By the way if my kid hung out with your kid and your kid and my kid happened to try smoking, because yes it does happen, and I question my kid and find out your wife is buying and supplying the cigs, not your daughter just "stole" one or two cigs to try, i'd report your behinds to child services and tell them that you are supplying cigs like supplying alcohol to minors. I don't think I'd be the only parent to do it either.

I'd like to say I tried smoking at like 12 or 13 with friends behind the school, when one stole it from her mom. Her mom was certainly not providing a pack or two a day. And yes it was dumb and immature.

[ttt]

Dear Mitch71:
I have read your post and I would like to offer my opinion on the situation, which may be helpful and I bleeive is different from all or most of the others here.
Please do not think that I presume to know everything about you or your life. Do not think I know better than you, I probably don't, not better than you or anyone else here. I am just trying to help and offer advice.

First off, let's look at a couple facts that I know to be true:

Your wife started smoking before she met you.
Your wife enjoys smoking; she is also addicted and quitting is very difficult.
Your wife uses smoking as a way to releive stress and deal with negative emotions.
Your wife quit her job 2 years ago.
You wife now has a job doing a paper route, and some or all of her coworkers there smoke.
Your wife spends most of her time at home.
Your daughter is out of school for the summer.
Your daughter said that she doesn't beleive she can quit smoking.
Your wife smoke at least a little bit while pregnant with your second child.
Your wife loves your daughter.
Now let me bring in some things that I beleive, but do not know for sure are true:
Your daughter enjoys smoking.
Smoking won't kill you over night.

I think most people would agree that a moderate smoker is about 1/2-1 packs a day, and that 3-4 packs a day is very heavy. Unlike drugs like meth, even smoking extremely heavily, even if your wife was to start smoking 5 or 6 packs a day, she would probably live a few more years. The reason that I bring that up is that the damage done by smoking is very slow. Some people even smoke 3-4 packs a day from age 10 to 90. Unlike a lot of other things, the damage from smoking accumulates very slowly. The changes are very hard, especially for the smoker to notice. They may develope difficulty breathing or a smoker's cough, but it comes on them so slowly that it almost seems normal. I am not saying there isn't an air of denial to go along with it, because I am pretty sure there is, but the damage is much harder to see and acknowledge when it takes so long.

Your wife feels commraderie with her coworkers because they all smoke; they smoke together. It's something they share and that makes it more enjoyable.

Your wife feels guilty about not being able to find a job she feels is adequate. She is not using her college degree or really earning what she thinks is enough money. She may even feel guilty still over the misscarriage. Perhaps she even blames smoking and then, when she feels unable to quit, it makes her feel even worse. I am sure she also feels guilty over how much her smoking costs.

Your wife feels that she cannot quit smoking.

Your daughter is addicted to cigarettes.

Your wife and daughter smoke together.

I also think that your fights with your wife over smoking have put up a barrier. They have pushed her away. The guilt she feels already is being compounded by your fighting. She may even feel that it is breaking your two apart and I don't think she wants that. I think she loves you and wants to be with you but wants to keep smoking.
I think with the loss of her job 2 years ago and becoming a stay at home mom, that your wife's social circle has decreased, perhaps very dramatically. I do not know how many hobbies or interests she has either. She may be lonely, especailly with you working so much over time. She may be bored and smoking, at least some of the time, out of boredom.

I don't know if your daughter started smoking on your own or with your wife. Maybe she started with friends? Maybe she started all on her own, stealing a few from your wife here and there. Maybe she even started with your wife. Regardless of how she started, she did, and then at some point, before you found out, your wife found out. At the time, your wife was probably feeling at least a little bit alienated from you, and may not have had her paper route yet. Maybe she didn't even really have any friends either and you were working all the time. I think she reached out to yuor daughter and they formed a bond. They smoke together and enjoy it. It has built up their relationship. You also alienated your daughter and for the same reasons pretty much. That put them both on the defensive and they rallied together.

I think your wife has encourage your daughter to increase in part because of the emotional feelings that I said above and also because she loves her. I know that seesm counter-intuitive, because why would she encourage a dangerous, even deadly, behavior to her own daughter that she loves? Because smoking feels good, it helps her with negative emotions, it's something they share, it makes their relationship better, it's something thye both feel alienated from you about.

I think both your wife and daughter are addicted. When someone is addicted, the only person they will quit for is themselves. If you don't beleive that, watch an episode or two of the show called "Intervention." I have yet to see one about smoking, but it's about drug users. No matter how much damage they cause, and it's always a lot worse than what your wife and daughter have done so far, they won't wuit for anyone. You could also watch the documentary "The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virgina," which is available on Netflix; particular the story of the woman and the loss of her baby to social services. Until they hit rock bottom and want to quit for themselves, they won't. It doesn't matter what health concerns you point out, or what you threated to to or even what actual health problems they develope, or the cost; they won't wuit till they want to on their own. Just as an example, my ex-wife didn't quit using meth until she was stuck in the hospital with piss-colored eyes from hepatitis C that she caught from sharing needles. I know addicts.

I am by no means saying that this is all your fault. Your wife was chainsmoking before you even took up the crusade. Your daughter starting smoking without your knowledge, behaps even before you began to get onto your wife. I think you may possible have made the situation worse, but it's porbable that evne if you had done nothing and just accepted it happily from the beginning that your daughter would still have started smoking and eventually become a heavy smoker like your wife and that you wife would have kept smoking 3-4 packs a day. The important thing is what you do now. Hoenstly, I would drop the fight. You have to pick your battles and I do not think this is one you can win without sacrifices you are not willing to make. It seems like your marriage and the wholeness of your family is the most important thing here, so focus on that. I am not saying that you should start approviing of their heavy smoking, but don't turn it into a fight. Make it known that you don't approve or like it, but don't fight and push them into a corner. Try to work on your relationship. I know that money is tight, but maybe you could take your wife to a nice dinner, or out for a weekend, or even just send yoru daughter to a friend's house and have a nice dinner alone.

I would love to have an update on your situation also. Is your wife still smoking 3-4 packs a day? Does she ever smoke more than 4 packs? Does she make an effort to limit her smoking to 4 or less packs?

How much as your daughter been smoking?

Has your wife been actually trying to get her to increase?

Has your wife told your daughter that she is allowed to smoke as much as she wants and that she does not need to limit herself at all?

[Mitch71]

Finally checking back in for another update after several months of hiatus. Interesting thoughts ttt, I guess when you lay it out like that its hard to ignore.

First, yes my wife is still chainsmoking. Yes, she is still chain-smoking around 4 packs a day. I am still baffled how anyone can smoke that much, but she does, and I have (mostly) stopped fighting with her about her smoking.

Second, yes, my teenage daughter is still smoking, and I'm still trying to come to grips with this fact. She's not quite the chainsmoker her mother is yet, but she smokes at least a pack a day, sometimes upto a pack and a half a day, and sometimes almost two packs a day on weekends and holidays. Now that shes out of school for christmas break, she's chainsmoking alot more in the house, in the living room, in the kitchen, in her room, it seems that she and her mother both constantly smoke just about anywhere and everywhere.

For whatever its worth, after a heated argument with my wife this summer about her encouraging our teenage daughter to smoke, I actually looked into whether it was legal here; and apparently, underage smoking by minors is not prohibited for minors if done in a private residence or in they are accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. So, much for that approach.

So for now, I try to accept the fact that I love my wife and daughter, even if they are smokers, even when they continue to chainsmoke themselves into ill health. It still makes me sad to see my teenage daughter already smoking almost two packs a day, and being encouraged to smoke by her mother, so she can have a friend to share with, but it doesnt make me want to keep fighting about it.

The budgetary costs of this smoking are still so astonishing to me. My wife and daughter go through nearly six packs of cigarettes a day between the two of them, over fourty packs of cigarettes a week. Thats four cartons of cigarettes a week. Cartons here run around $50 when on sale, so they are essentially smoking $200 worth of cigarettes each and every week. $800 a month. And monthly Health Insurance rates for my wife are nearly double. I haven't had to change the paperwork for my daughter yet, but she's up for renewal soon, so I'll probably have to. Right now, Id say its about $200 extra per month in Health Insurance costs, but that will definitely go up over time, like all health care costs. Especially during the holidays, thats cash we could really use better other places - but there's no reasoning with nicotine addicts.

The thought of our family budget spending $1,000 per month to support my wife and teenage daughters constant chainsmoking is almost as frustrating as actually having to live in a house with two chainsmoking women. But I still love them, and am so very tired of fighting, so I just hold my nose and hug them just the same.

[Nika]

If they are doing it in the house they are putting you at risk. Those risks are not made up or exaggerated, they are very real.

I kind of feel like your stance is "I don't want to confront them, because they'll chew me up and spit me out, I would rather just watch them kill themselves.

I'd leave. Simply because if your wife did not even care enough about the health of her child, what makes you think she would care more about you? And whatever you say, actions are louder. There are plenty of heroin addicts that think they love their babies, but no, not in a way normal parents love them and want to protect them.

[QuarterMillionMan]

When it comes to addiction, my motto is to never give up on helping a loved one. In the worst case senerio the addict might give up on theirselves and resort to suicide and you'll be questioning yourself what more you could have done, so never give up trying. It is also true that addicts need to want help, believe me they want the help but they can no longer do it on their own. They are no longer in control. You will need to take control for them. Every situation is unique and addressed differently but from what I have gathered thusfar is that you appear to be enabling their behavior. It seems that you are the breadwinner in the house and that should give you the most leverage but your actions (or inactions) display otherwise. You need to put your foot down and lay out some rules (and follow through). "Tough Love," comes to mind. What I would recommend and I'm not a doctor by the way;



1) Establish a rule effective immediately, "No smoking in the house."
2) At the end of each week on Sunday their smoking expenses will be cut in half.
3) Continue trying different smoking cessation techniques even if she tried the patch or gum try it again. Consult w/her doctor for other alternatives (ie, medications, group/individual therapy, etc.)
4) Inform them that you will no longer support their bad habit in 1 month's time.

[gostumpy]

I apologize I haven't read very much of this thread, will read more later, however, if you do not smoke, you have the right to say no smoking inside the house...... no?

[UpstateNY86]

This is sad sad sad...Just shaking my head..

[JoeP]

If they are doing it in the house they are putting you at risk. Those risks are not made up or exaggerated, they are very real.

I kind of feel like your stance is "I don't want to confront them, because they'll chew me up and spit me out, I would rather just watch them kill themselves.

I'd leave. Simply because if your wife did not even care enough about the health of her child, what makes you think she would care more about you? And whatever you say, actions are louder. There are plenty of heroin addicts that think they love their babies, but no, not in a way normal parents love them and want to protect them.

I agree with leaving. Maybe put it this way: "I love you both, but cannot live with two people who have no regard for their health, their safety, and the expense. When you're ready to have a serious discussion, we can talk." And then find a nice place to move to.

I have a real bad feeling the OP is going to be in an "I told you so" situation within 10 years, although I don't see him actually saying it.

[Jon Spiels]

Getting professional help would be nice since smoking is a habit which you can't just easily quit plus smoking can be a pain if it affects your monthly budget...

[MarshaB]

Do your wife and daughter have any non-smoking friends or relatives? Surely they must. Why not get those people involved in your predicament. Encourage them to talk to your wife and daughter and let them tell the two that they are wrecking their health and definitely making a shambles of the family's finances. Your wife and daughter have clearly stopped listening to you. Fresh and rational voices are needed now.

[ablet110]

Smoking Habbit

Smoking is a bad habit but some people take it as a fashion. But they don't know one day it will destroy their health and wealth. Mostly people start it with one or two times in a day but after some time they reach twelve to fifteen times. It is very dangerous.

[Mitch71]

ablet110, you are right that its astonishing how fast someone taking just one or two cigarette breaks a day at first can slide into taking fifteen or more cigarette breaks a day. The expenses and costs involved are mind boggeling. My teenage daughter now chainsmokes just like her mother, and it started out just like that. Now she'll always smoke at least two or three, sometimes four cigarettes in a row every time she lights one, and it seems like she takes a cigarette break almost every hour. Finances asside, I cannot tell you how heart breaking it is to have grudgingly accepted the fact that my teenage daughter already smokes at least two packs a day, and is well on her way to smoking three packs a day just like her mother.

Well, in all honesty, her mother smokes more like four packs a day, rather than just three. I wish I had so much time to waste every day, but I work all the time and I don't smoke. Instead I live a life dominated by two women who basically run my life, and I guess Im just too cowardly to stand up to them because I love them too much and I don't want to lose them. When my wife and I were fighting about her rampant chainsmoking when she first became unemployed a few years ago, she threatened to leave me if I tried to make her quit smoking. I don't do well with threats like that, so I just backed off. Now, while dealing with her manic depression, my wife has recruited our daughter, now thirteen years old, almost fourteen, to be her smoking buddy. They smoke everywhere in the house, in the car, and all the time. I feel like Im living in a house with two teenage girls sometimes, instead of just one.

But I love them both too much to leave them. Its a personal weakness I know.

Yet the pending financal costs from their cigarette addiction is frightening, especially as they look at raising the cigarette taxes upto $1 more per pack here. With my wife smoking at least four packs a day, and my teenage daughter smoking two to three packs a day, if the cigarette tax hike passes, I will soon be paying at least $1,200 a month for their cigarettes.

$1,200 a month for cigarettes. Money so far down the drain I cannot even tell you how upset it makes me.

But thats nothing compared to the medical bills. My poor teenage daughter struggled with accute bronchitis off and on throughout the fall last year, but never once tried to cut back on her smoking. To hear her wracking, almost ratteling dry cough every morning and every evening, followed by another flick from her lighter just made me want to cry. Id say something about how maybe she should try to not smoke so much, but shed say she was already too addicted to every quit or cut back, and if my wife was around, as she often was, she would give be a cold gotohell stare as if to say leave her alone. Over christmas break when our daughter had way too much free time, she got to where she was smoking three packs a day regularly, and sure enough it wasn't long before her acute bronchitis became walking pneumonia. The poor girls coughs went from dry to almost wet sounding, gasping, with shallow breaths and I just couldnt take it anymore and took her to the hospital. Even with health insurance that supposedly covers things like this, it never cease to amaze me how quickly a hospital can spend $3,200 that isn't covered by insurance.

After she saw the triage nurse who decided it wasn't an emergency, we were sent to the waiting room, and my daughter kept insisting on going outside in the freezing cold to smoke a cigarette. I tried to tell her no, but she wouldn't listen to me. She'd go stand out there in the cold, all the way out in the parking lot because the hospital doesnt let people smoke near the building, just coughing and lighting one cigarette after the other. Again I pleaded with her to just lay off the cigarettes till she saw the doctors, but she said they werent the problem, and that she was smoking Menthols, and that it actually helped her throat feel better. I never knew that Menthol cigarettes were considered medicinal by certian self delusional smokers, until I heard my daughter try to explain it to me. So I just tried to joke with her about other things it could be. I looked down and saw that she wasn't wearing any socks with her ballet flats and joked about how her bare feet must be freezing in the winter weather and that maybe that was how she caught cold, but she just gave me that incredulous thirteen-year-old-daughter know-it-all look and said something like 'Gawd, dad, I like, never wear socks and havent for years'. Looking down, I felt like the most uninformed and out of touch father, struggeling to even communicate with my teenage daughter. She finished her cigarette, then another, before we headed back inside, and waited more before the doctor saw her.

The Doctor of course smelled smoke on her, and asked her if she smoked, to which she coolly replied 'uh, yeah', and the doctor gave me a stern look and said, 'you know she shouldn't be smoking' and as I began to speak sheepishly in my own defense, my daughter, to my suprise, spoke up essentially in my defense about how I hated her smoking and always told her not to, but she did it anyways cause she liked it and was basically addicted. Her speaking up for me was maybe the closest thing to a compliment I think shes paid me in over a year. The doctor asked her how much she smoked and she told him three packs a day, almost proudly. He seemed to not believe her. She said, that she had been smoking only two packs a day, but that during the school break, she was smoking more like three, same as the weekends. My heart sank. She was a practically genetic chainsmoker just like her mother was, and I was starting to realize how badly I had failed her as a father. The doctor told her her smoking was making everything worse and probably the leading cause of her breathing problems, and gave her a stern warning about quitting smoking, as well as some informational pamphlets about quitting smoking, and the risks of smoking, and also gave her a prescription antibiotic. We left the hospital, with me feeling almost smug about having been vindicated by a doctor who just told her how much she needed to quit, but none of that seemed to matter as she reached to light a cigarette just as soon as we stepped out the hospital door. It was not only that nothing I said had any meaning or weight, she even ignored a doctors direct advice.

Thats about the time that I gave up. It felt like there was no use fighting it anymore. She is clearly just as determined as her mother to smoke like its the 1960s or something. She doesnt care about what it does to her health. She doesnt care about how it makes me feel when she ignores what I say, and she doesnt care about how much it costs. But nothing I do or say can change that. Its just like with my wifes behavior. Its hopeless to try and get the cigarette addict to quit if they themselves don't want to. My daughter will be starting high school soon, and the thought that shes already this addicted to cigarettes, just like her mother was when she was her age, is just heartbreaking. I don't know how else to fight it, so maybe theres no use fighting it anymore. Maybe I just have to expect to spend $1,200 a month on their cigarettes, and $3,200 ever winter on her medical bills. Im sure the medical bills will only get worse. It seems like its only a matter of time before my wife gets emphesyema or lung cancer or something along those lines. Anyone who smokes as much as she does eventually will, I know. But they don't care. They know what it does to them, but they do it anyways. And Im left with nothing else to do or say about it.

[amarowsky]

I'm a smoker. I would like to quit to and I think I'm going to try that book listed earlier. If she won't quit I would suggest having her roll her own cigarettes. In Michigan they are about 7 dollars a pack. And you can roll roughly 9 packs for 9-10 dollars if you roll your own. I smoke roughly 5 packs a week so it is saving me a ton if money

[sarah]

I will love you if you stop smoking is not only wrong it won't work.