Smoking the budget away

[Mitch71]

Amarowsky, that’s impressive that you were able to quit smoking so quickly. I only wish that my wife and teenage daughter were so luck. Jane78, youre right, quitting smoking really is a difficult task. I don’t see either of the women in my life quiting smoking because they are just to addicted. Bennyhoff, bjl584 and Snafu, I know the update may not always bring the news people want to hear, but I thought that sharing my struggle might have some value for others in similar situations.

ttt, I imagine you must have similar experiences dealing with heavy smokers in the family. I’ll try my best to answer your questions if its helpful.

"You said your wife buys your daughter 2 cartons of cigarettes per week. Does yoru daughter finish the 2 cartons a week?"
- Yes, unfortunately my daughter finishes about two cartons a week

"If so, I think she may be smoking more than you indicated, but I am not sure. If she was smoking 2 1/2 packs on week days and 3 1/2 on the weekend, that would total out to 19 1/2 packs a week, and the last 10 cigarettes could be spread out over the 7 days. Is it possible your daughter is smoking that much?"
- Honestly, I think she smokes about that much. 2 and a half packs a day to 3 and a half packs a day is about how much she has been smoking. I don’t count each and every cigarette that she smokes, nearly three packs a day average its just an estimate, but I think its pretty close to that.

"Do you think your daughter is increasing on purpose, or just indulging her addiction and/or giving into your wife's encouragement?"
- Hard to say, because I’m sure shes addicted and that’s part of it, but I definitely think my wife is encouraging her bad habit and making it worse.

"Do you know what your wife does to encourage your daughter to smoke more?"
- Not exactly, because I think most of it is when Im not around. To say that they are smoking buddies would be a gross understatement, but I’m not sure exactly.

"Do you think once your daughter gets up to at least 3 packs a day during the summer, that she will remain there permanantly?"
- As depressing as it is to admit, It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if she started smoking at least three packs a day every day this summer and kept smoking that much for the rest of her life. She has that same kind of addictive personality that her mother has, and that same kind of rebellious streak, so it wouldn’t surprise me a bit.

"Do you thinkyour wife will encourage your daughter's smoking up to 4+ packs a day like her own during the summer?"
- Again, this wouldn’t surprise me a bit. Nothing seems to surprise me these days. If I found out that my wife had been encouraging my daughter to smoke four packs a day I’d be depressed, but really, whether its three packs a day or four packs a day it’s a pretty pathetic situation.

"How bad is your daughter's asthma?"
- it comes and it goes. It was bad last winter for some reason, maybe her constant chainsmoking, and its been bad this spring with the pollen. She gets to where she has pretty severe coughing fits, trouble breathing, and has to use her nebulizer. When she can find it, it seemed like she’d use her inhaler several times a day. Overall, I’d say its definitely getting worse, but I don’t know exactly how much worse it can get from here. I’d hate to think where its headed.

"How often does she get asthma attacks?"
- I suppose she gets asthma attacks at least once a week, maybe twice a week . Could be more that I don’t know about, that she’s hiding from me or that happen when Im not around. Given how much she and her mother both chain smoke it wouldn’t surprise me.

"Does she do anything for it other than use her inhaler (which you said is often lost anyway) like a nebulizer?"
- Yeah, she uses a nebulizer several times a week. The saddest thing to see is how bad shes shaking after using a nebulizer, and trying to light a cigarette shortly afterwards, but has trouble holding her lighter still enough to light the cigarette. Its pretty sad really.

"What kind of attention does your daughter get because of her asthma?"
- Medical attention I guess? Not sure what you mean exactly. I suppose she may be playing up the extent to which she gets wheezy and winded all the time to try to get out of doing things she doesn’t want to do, but I don’t know if that’s for attention. She used to act up and do stuff like this when she was younger, like when she’d refuse to wear socks to school, because she didn’t want to have to dress out in gym class, and her gym teacher wouldn’t let them participate if they were wearing shoes without socks. We’d try to fight her on it, try to make her wear socks, but she’d always just take them off as soon as she got to school and throw the socks away and just wear her shoes barefoot without socks. Don’t lnow fi she liked the attention or what. Eventually we just gave in and just stopped buying her socks, so now she literally never wears them. She’s been that way about other things before too. Pretty headstrong for a little girl, but like I said, shes always been that way.

"Do you think its possible she is smoking more purposely to make her asthma worse so that she will get more attention?"
- Honestly, I suppose never thought about it that way before. But yeah, I suppose she could be is smoking more to get more attention in general. But I still think its hard to pin down exactly why. Just thought about how your questions were related, so yeah, I suppose her incessant chain smoking could be considered a cry for attention, and I’ve just never realized before. Odd thoughts.

"Is your wife making an effort to increase her own smoking, or only your daughter's smoking?"
- Its hard to say for sure, but I suppose she could probably trying to increase both hers and her daughters, but for why its hard to say, but it sure does seem like she’s trying to do that sometimes. Im sure Ive accused her of doing that before, although that has lead to arguments so I drop the issues and just cower away. The why really is the hardest part to understand. Addiction, sure, but why increase, I just don’t know because I can’t really understand. Whether its for the sheer indulgence of it or for spite or for some reason I just don’t get them sometimes.

"You said your daughter smokes about 4 cigarettes per hour and your wife 5-6. How often do you see them smoke one cigarette after another with no break in between?"
- Frequently, especially lately. My wife will often smoke three or four cigarettes in a row, then do something that may require both hands or whatnot, then take a break and smoke another two or three or four. That usually happens about every half hour or so. I don’t think my wife can go a half hour without a cigarette or two or three. My daughter is starting to get the same way, and she will frequently smoke two cigarettes right in a row, sometimes three. Maybe shes just emulating the way her mother chainsmokes, or maybe she likes it better that way, but Ive noticed them having similar smoking habits.

"Have you made any further exploration of buying a rolling machine,whcih can save you money?"
- I haven’t really, because I’ve been flip flopping on the issue of whether or not it will just encourage them to smoke more or whether it will help save money in the long run. I mean, I think it’d save money, but I’m not sure it send the message I should be sending.

"If you did, would you be the one rolling them?"
- I don’t think I’d be the one rolling them. For starters I don’t support their dirty habit. My wife may buy her own cigarettes with her own money, and she may buy my daughters cigarettes too, but I don’t want to condone their addiction, so I don’t buy them. I don’t see myself rolling their cigarettes for them either, even if it would save me money. I feel like even if I can’t stop them from smoking all the time, If Im going to stand on principals, I have to stand firm on saying I will not be the one who buys either of them their cigarettes. They cannot poison their lungs on my dime.

Anyways, I suppose that’s the update. Its not exactly great news. Especially now that school is out for summer, Im sure the incessant chainsmoking in my house is going to get worse and theres nothing I can do about it. Any more subtle suggestions that don’t involve me making ridiculous ultimatum’s I can’t back up are more than welcome, or any questions or anything else about this bizarre situation that keeps unfolding around me.

[ttt.]

Thank you for your reply Mitch. You have provided some great information. I am sure it will be helpful somehow.
Have you niticed your daughter increasing her smoking already since school is out?
You said that both your daughter and wife frequently chain smoke 2,3,4, or even 5 cigarettes in a row, then often stop for a break for perhaps 30 minutes to do something, and then chainsmoke again. Do you ever seem them chainsmoke more than that? For example, my significant other will often in the evening smoke for an hour or so non stop.
Do you expect her to get up to 3 cartons a week like your wife?
Does your daughter smoke at school?
How does she deal with her intense addiction all day long without a cigarette?
You said that you were encouraging her to do dance or ballet, perhaps as a better social outlet than being friend with friends who encouraged her to smoke, but that she did not like it because of her asthma. Did she quit?
You have said that your wife seems to be quite lazy and sedetary often times, for example not taking a full time job.
Does she ever use her persistant cold/smoker's cough/trouble breathing as an excuse to not do things and to instead just sit and chain smoke?
Do you think your daughter is learning and starting to use the same behavior?
Do you think it's possible that she could be smoking more with the goal of making her asthma/breathing/coughing worse so that she has to do less?
For what it's worth, she is probably not shaking after using her nabulizer because of anything smoking related and just becuase of the medicine, I have seen that quite often in non smokers.
I have had to deal with my significant other using her nebulizer and smoke at the same time! For example, holding a cigarette in one hand and the nebulizer in the other, take a few puffs from one and then a few from the other. She actually says that it opens her lungs up so she can breathe the smoke in deeper. She says when she does it she can smoke like she used to years ago. Obviously, this means that smoking heavily is ruining her lungs and she can't normally open them up as much or breathe in as deeply, but when she gets medicine to help with that, instead of trying to breathe, she uses it to smoke!
Do you ever see your daughter do that or think she might when you're not around?
When your wife and daughter chainsmoke, do they usually light one cigarette off the butt of the last?
Have you ever seen or heard you wife actually tell your daughter that she should light up a cigarette, or another cigarette, or suggest it?
You've said that your wife and daughter both have a bad cough, and that you were reading some health related forums. My significant other has a bad cough too and sometimes coughs up black or brown stuff, which is a really bad sign. Do your wife or daughter ever cough anything up like that that you know of?
It seems like your daughter is allowed to smoke as much as she wants, and that your wife chooses to as well. But you did say that you wife will often take breaks from smoking, such as to do something with both hands, and maybe smokes more slowly at work. I don't know what kind of chore or activity load your daughter will have this summer, but you did say that she spends a lot of time glued to the TV/phone/computer cigarette in hand. Do you think it's possible that she could get to where she is smoking MORE than your wife because she can chainsmoke litteraly all day long in the summer and doesnt have to stop and do anything?
Do you think your wife is encouraging your daughter to increase on purpose, as in actually consciously deciding that she wants your daughter to smoke more heavily, and that her smoking more heavily is good and a goal worth pursuing with effort; or that she just encourages/suggests her to smoke more without really thinking about it?
If you believe it is on purpose, do you have any clue as to why it might be, such as wanting her to smoke the same as herself, bonding, spiting you, or maybe wanting someone to be as addicted as her and doing as much damage as her so she doesn't feel as bad about it?

[Mitch71]

TTT, I suppose it's comforting to know that I'm not dealing with this alone. I'll try my best to answer your questions.

Thank you for your reply Mitch. You have provided some great information. I am sure it will be helpful somehow.
Have you niticed your daughter increasing her smoking already since school is out?

- Yea, I suppose so overall, but its hard to say if its a quantifiable amount. Maybe she's consistently smoking a full three packs a day more often, can't say for sure since its only been about two weeks.

You said that both your daughter and wife frequently chain smoke 2,3,4, or even 5 cigarettes in a row, then often stop for a break for perhaps 30 minutes to do something, and then chainsmoke again. Do you ever seem them chainsmoke more than that? For example, my significant other will often in the evening smoke for an hour or so non stop.

- My wife will sometimes chainsmoke for an hour or two straight too, but I think usually smokes about seven or eight cigarettes in about an hour when she does that. So far my daughter only usually seems to smoke three or four in a row, although she may have smoked that much in a row before, and it wouldn't suprise me if she tried to this summer.

Do you expect her to get up to 3 cartons a week like your wife?

- I wish I could say no and believe it might be true, but I can't, because I'm sure its only a matter of time before she's smoking at least that much too.

Does your daughter smoke at school?

- Yes she has been caught smoking at school before several times, and I've been called to parent teacher meetings about it. It was getting bad because my wife would go and not tell me she'd been caught again but then do nothing about it. Eventually, she was put on in school suspension for it, and then actually sent home twice for it. I'm worried that if she gets a stricter assistant principal of discipline, that she may actually end up getting expelled next year if she doesn't knock it off. My wife doesn't help this situation any, because she claims she can just home school her if she gets expelled, but I can only imagine that would exacerbate my daughters cigarette addiction for her to be locked in the house all day with my chainsmoking wife. I almost can't help but wonder if that's actually something she wants or not.

How does she deal with her intense addiction all day long without a cigarette?

- well, clearly she can't hardly make it more than a few hours without a cigarette because she keeps getting caught at school, but I know she's tried other things too. For instance, I know she chews nicorette gum, because I tried to get her some to help her quit, which completely backfired on me because now she says she just chews the gum during the day in class to help her get through without needing as many smoke breaks. I was horrified to find her twisting my efforts to help her quit like that and said I would refuse to buy her any more nicotine gum, but then she said it must be because I wanted her to smoke more and tried to guilt me into it. I wouldn't budge and eventually her mother bought her the nicotine gum, but not for the purpose of quitting, just to try to help her make it through the school day without needing to smoke as often. Pretty sad really.

You said that you were encouraging her to do dance or ballet, perhaps as a better social outlet than being friend with friends who encouraged her to smoke, but that she did not like it because of her asthma. Did she quit?

- Yes, unfortunately she seems to have basically quit ballet, which used to be something she loved. She kept skipping practice and lessons, claiming she was having trouble breathing and couldnt keep up because she was wheezing so much; then she kept droping out of recitals for the same reasons, so I eventually said if she wanted to take the rest of the year off or quit she should just say so.

You have said that your wife seems to be quite lazy and sedetary often times, for example not taking a full time job.
Does she ever use her persistant cold/smoker's cough/trouble breathing as an excuse to not do things and to instead just sit and chain smoke?

- All. The. Time. My wife's ridiculous laziness about not taking a job if she can't smoke on the job got to epic proportions when she was laid off during the recession. I think she only made her bad habits worse and now she can't seem to get them under control.

Do you think your daughter is learning and starting to use the same behavior?

- Absolutely, I think that my daughter is mimicing my wife's behavior, and possibly that my wife is encouraging it. But she, like my wife, seems to know how to push my buttons to mostly get away with it, and its not until Im away from everything that I'm able to clearly see I'm being manipulated and can't do anything about it.

Do you think it's possible that she could be smoking more with the goal of making her asthma/breathing/coughing worse so that she has to do less?

- I wondered about this after another question or post someone asked along these lines before, and at first I wasn't sure, but after thinking about it more I'm starting to suspect that its not as crazy as it sounds. Particularly my daughter I think could be actively engaging in what she knows is deliberately self destructive behavior, like many teenagers, for what she percieves is personal gain. It actually kinda makes sense to me in a way. Afterall, plenty of my ultra conservative friends at work seem perfectly fine believeing that welfare moms deliberately have multiple children out of wedlock with different men so they can get additional welfare benifits, and don't blink for a second when questioned about whether or not someone would really do that. I suppose some people aren't afraid to do something they enjoy, in excess, so as to avoid having to do something they don't want to do.

For what it's worth, she is probably not shaking after using her nabulizer because of anything smoking related and just becuase of the medicine, I have seen that quite often in non smokers.
I have had to deal with my significant other using her nebulizer and smoke at the same time! For example, holding a cigarette in one hand and the nebulizer in the other, take a few puffs from one and then a few from the other. She actually says that it opens her lungs up so she can breathe the smoke in deeper. She says when she does it she can smoke like she used to years ago. Obviously, this means that smoking heavily is ruining her lungs and she can't normally open them up as much or breathe in as deeply, but when she gets medicine to help with that, instead of trying to breathe, she uses it to smoke!
Do you ever see your daughter do that or think she might when you're not around?

- With all due respect to your wife, that sounds competely counter productive to be smoking and using a nebulizer at the same time, but I suppose everyone does things differently and according to their own preferences. I have never seen my daughter do that, but again, now that you mention it, she does seem to almost enjoy her time with the nebulizer a little too much, so it wouldn't suprise me a bit of she has tried smoking while using the nebulizer before.


When your wife and daughter chainsmoke, do they usually light one cigarette off the butt of the last?

- Yeah thats usually how they do it, but they use lighters sometimes too.

Have you ever seen or heard you wife actually tell your daughter that she should light up a cigarette, or another cigarette, or suggest it?

- I hate to admit it, but yes, I have frequently seen my wife offer my daughter cigarettes. She used to hide it from me more often, but lately its become so open and flagrant, that its hard to avoid.

You've said that your wife and daughter both have a bad cough, and that you were reading some health related forums. My significant other has a bad cough too and sometimes coughs up black or brown stuff, which is a really bad sign. Do your wife or daughter ever cough anything up like that that you know of?

- Yes, both of them have bad coughs. My wife's wracking cough every morning almost always produces some awful looking mucus that she spits into the sink. Usually its a dark yellow, but Ive seen it more brownish-yellow before. I try to joke with her about keeping her lungs down because she might want them later. As far as my daughter, I know she coughs every morning, and frequently throughout the day, and I know she coughs up something, but Ive never actually seen what it is, because she's still a teenage girl and is kinda private about those things. Sometimes I try to tell myself its just allergies or a cold or a sinus infection or maybe her asthma acting up again, but when I'm honest with myself, I know its got to be the cigarettes. Its just heartbreaking to hear someone so young already coughing so heavily and going through that, and not seeming to want to stop.

It seems like your daughter is allowed to smoke as much as she wants, and that your wife chooses to as well. But you did say that you wife will often take breaks from smoking, such as to do something with both hands, and maybe smokes more slowly at work. I don't know what kind of chore or activity load your daughter will have this summer, but you did say that she spends a lot of time glued to the TV/phone/computer cigarette in hand. Do you think it's possible that she could get to where she is smoking MORE than your wife because she can chainsmoke litteraly all day long in the summer and doesnt have to stop and do anything?

- So, yes my wife and daughter both smoke while watching tv, on the phone, computer, whatever, and my wife will frequently smoke while doing chores around the house like vacuming, or whatever. I suppose its possible that one day my daughter might smoke more than my wife, but I'd be pretty suprised if that were to happen by this summer.

Do you think your wife is encouraging your daughter to increase on purpose, as in actually consciously deciding that she wants your daughter to smoke more heavily, and that her smoking more heavily is good and a goal worth pursuing with effort; or that she just encourages/suggests her to smoke more without really thinking about it?

- I really don't know, and I suppose sometimes I think its a little of both.

If you believe it is on purpose, do you have any clue as to why it might be, such as wanting her to smoke the same as herself, bonding, spiting you, or maybe wanting someone to be as addicted as her and doing as much damage as her so she doesn't feel as bad about it?

- You know all of those things sound like they could make sense to her. I have never really understood the addiction in the same way, even as a former social smoker, but Ive heard that sometimes addicts can feed and support addictions in others, whether cigarettes or drugs or anything else. I suppose I should be glad its only cigarette addiction and not something worse, but its hard to take solace in that. Either way, and regardless of motives or why this is happening to me, I feel like things have only gotten worse in the past few years.

[bjl584]

Bennyhoff, bjl584 and Snafu, I know the update may not always bring the news people want to hear, but I thought that sharing my struggle might have some value for others in similar situations.

I have to say that your "struggle" is being caused by your own inaction and inability to do something about the situation. Nothing has changed in over 2 years. Not one thing. Zero. In fact, it looks worse.

You've already been given tons of good advice. Use some of it.

I wish you the best of luck, but unless you are willing to do something about all of this, then you will just have to live with it.

[ttt.]

Once again, Mitch. Thank you for your reply.
Have you had enough time to notice a marked increase in your daughter's smoking yet?
Have you noticed if your wife's own smoking is increasing?.
Do you know for certain (such as by something they have said) that they smoke,or smoke extra, just because they are bored?
For example your daughter might complain of being bored, so your wife tells her smoke another cigarette or group of cigarettes.
Do you ever see your daughter get breathless when just sitting on the couch not doing anything?
If your wife's cough worse than your daughters?
Can you guess how frequently they cough? for example your wif might cough every 10 mintues and your daughter once per hour.
Do they normally have just a single cough, or a little fit of coughs?
My significant other has a pertty bad cough. On a "good" day she might cough every 15-20 minutes, and have a little fit of 3-4 coughs each time. On a bad day, it can be as bad as every 5-10 minutes and she can have fits that last up to a few minutes. On bad days she can get breathless and winded just from coughing and can even get red in the face. The more she smokes during the day the more liekly she is to get breathless in the evening just sitting on the couch. She seems to cough up something, like phlegm at least 20% of the time and it often has little brown flecks in it. Sometimes, especially in the morning or when she has to undertake physical activitiy, she will cough up something black. She will often say she feels a pinching sensation in her lungs, but keeps right on chaining anyway.
One other thing that I had noticed is that in the evenings she will sometimes chainsmoke for a an extended peiod of time, like 2 hours, like your wife does sometimes, but lately she somtimes stops for just 1-2 minutes; as in she will chainsmoke 5 or so in a row and stop for 2 minutes, then smoke like 10 more right in a row. When I asked her why she was taking a break for just 2 minutes, since she rarely takes a break if she is just sitting in front of the TV, she said that she had to stop to catch her breath. I was shocked that she was chainsmoking until she couldnt breath but then only taking a break just long enough to catch her breath before going right back to her chainsmoking. Have you seen your wife or daughter do this?
I know that you ahve said that your wife has a bad cough, but does she ever wheeze or struggle to breath like your daughter does?
My significant other had to climb up a flight of stairs the other day. By the time she got to the top, she was pretty red in the face and had to sit down to catch her breath, but within just a couple minutes she said she had to have a cigarette. I couldn't beleive my eyes as i watched her, still a little red in the face, coughing, struggling to breath, but still trying to smoke. I suppose your two would be in about the same boat?
You sid that your wife frequently offers your daughter a cigarette, but they smoke different brands. Can you think of what she says when she offers her one?
In an earlier post you said that your daughter claimed that smoking menthol cigarettes eased her sore throat, ie the more she smoked the better it felt. Have you heard either your wife or daughter make any other claims like that? For example, I could see you wife making a similar claim to my significant other, either to you in defence of her smoking, or more liekly to your daughter: ""Here honey, light up another cigarette, smoking will make your cough settle down." ?
I think one of the reasons that my significant other is so addicted, and has ceated for herself so many issues related to smoking, like a cough, is because she takes really big hard drags and then inhales all of that smoke so deeply inside herself and then holds onto it for so long. Despite that, she still somehow seems to make this big, obnoxious, room-filling exhales. Sometimes, I come home and the room she is in is so smokey that I don't see how she can see the TV. Do your wifie and daughter both smoke in a similar way, taking big drags and inhaling lots of smoke and holding it in a long time?
Do you think that's part of why they're so addicted?
Do you ever come home to a smoke filled house?
Was your daughter born with asthma and did it get worse every year?
I know you said your wife smoked less while pregnant with your daughter, but how much did she smoke and do you think it caused your daughter's asthma?
Did your wife smoke 3 and 4 packs a day as a teenager?
Did your wife has asthma growing up?
You have mentioned that you are worried about the state of your wife's lungs (and your daughters too), is there any history of smoking related disease in her family?
My significant other has several cases of smoking related cancer and emphysema but it neither seems to have prevented her from starting to smoked, ever limited her consuptiuon, or even give her a second thought about quitting.

I have offerred you advice in the past, mostly on how and why to accept your situation, and I hope it has helped. I would like to offer some more now after a lot of thought.
First, some facts to support my advice and why it makes sense. Some of these are going to be very evident, but I am offerring them just to build my case.
Your daughter is very addicted to smoking.
With any addiction there is an intake period (ie smoking a cigarette) where the addict feels releif, then a period where their addiction is sated, and then a time when they feel a craving again.
Your daughter avoid activities where she is active, has to wear socks, and cannot smoke.
When your daughter is in school she smokes at school, and smokes more on weekends than school days. Both over the last summer (and I am sure this summer will be the same) and the last christmas break, if not the ones before, your daughters smoking has increased due to more free time, but NOT gone back down when school resumed.
Laziness is a learned behavior and your wife has learned to be lazy.
Your wife got her part time job only to support her smoking habit.
Lastly, your wife smokes more than your daughter (at least for now) and has smoked for many, many more years, but outside of a cough/trouble breathing/etc, which you can see neither of them see as a big issue, has no effects from smoking that your daughter can see.
Advice:
If you haven't already, give up your argument from a budget standpoint on them quitting smoking less or quitting smoking. You pay all of the bills other than smoking. The only reason your wife got a job was to pay for cigarettes. She did not want to get a better job becuase she is lazy. She may have given a reason of not being abel to smoke, but I doubt she would get a better job that required her to work more even if she could smoke while doing it. If she didn't smoke, she woudln't need to work and probably wouldn't. Therefor the amount of money that you have to spend would be the same whether they smoekd or not it would seem.
While your argument between just you and your wife that she should quit for health reasons is still valid in and of itself, I just don't think it will work. If you haven't already, I would give up.
Give up trying to persuade your daughter ot msoke less or quit smoking for health reasons. As I said above, her defense, especially in her own mind, is that her mom has smoked more for a lot longer and is fine. For many smokers, they say that they are fine now and can quit later "if they have to." your daughter can point right to her mother and show that she herself will be fine for the next 25-30 years because her mother is. Until somethign happens to change the state of the game, a health argument with her will fail.
Smoking a stronger brand of cigarette may help. Your daughter chainsmokes several cigarettes in a row. It is possible that if she smoked a stronger cigarette, she would need to smoke less. Perhaps she would only chainsmoke 2 in a row instead of 4-5 like she currenly is. The only stronger brand of menthol cigarettes that I know of is Newport 100s. This is just a suggetsion.
I think home schooling might actually limit your daughter's smoking, possibly. Every time there is a long break from school, her smoking increases. Last summer it was up to 2 packs a day. This past christmas, it was up to 2 cartons a week. This summer, she will probably end up doing 3 cartons a week. I think the reason that this happens is that she smokes a certain amount on week days, and then has to smoke more on weekends to satisfy her increased addiction. When she has a long break from school, her smoking rises up to her weekend amount every day. Then she stays roughly at that amount during the weekdays and increased her smoking on the weekends. If your daughter gets up to 3 cartons a week, whcih I think is a given, then that would be just over 4 packs a day. Once school starts again, I feel like she will smoke about 4 packs a day but 5 packs a day on weekends. What could easily end up happening is that over christmas break this year or summer next year, she might get to where she is doing 5 full packs every day, and never cut back down. If she were home schooled, she would not have the dichotomy of school days and off days and would smoek roughly the same every day. This could stabilize her smoking and prevent it from increasing further. To additionally supposrt this suggestion: Your wife is home alone a lot while your daughter is in school. She is probably lonely. She obviously likes spending time with your daugher and they are like friends. She clearly beleivers that your daughter deserves to smoke. At this point she probably doesn't care if your daughter gets expelled, because she beleives the education would be the same and then they would get to be together all day long. Your wife probably sees little benefit in preventing your daughter from getting expelled for smoking. That is the optimistic view. In a pessimistic view, your wife is encouraging her to be lax about hiding her smoking with the purpose of getting expelled.

[Baby_nurse]

I'm sorry, but I just can't imagine sitting back as a parent and allowing your child to do something that you know is not only dangerous to her, but illegal as well. Unless I am mistaken, you are the parent and what you say should go. No smoking in your house or on your property. Period. If she won't quit, you find a program to make her quit.

Man up and be a parent, not an enabler.

The problem is not that your wife encourages her to smoke. It's that you don't prevent it. If you and your wife can't get on the same page about this, then you need to figure out your relationship. Your child's life shouldn't be on the line because its too hard to work out your problems. I love my husband, but if his actions enabled my daughters to risk their lives there isn't a question in my mind that my kids would come first.

[LuckyRobin]

I believe your wife is mentally ill and that what she is doing to your daughter is child abuse. There are a lot of similarities between her behavior and Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, where a parent, usually the mother, deliberately makes a child ill by poisoning (encouraging smoking) or other methods, to gain attention for herself.

I think you need a lawyer. I think you need to document what is going on. Get testimony from the ER doctors when your child tells them that your wife allows this. I think you need to get medical power of attorney over your wife and your daughter and force them both to have psychiatric consults and then go into treatment programs. If, after this, your wife still chooses this destructive behavior, you need to take your daughter and leave. Your wife is killing your daughter inch by inch. This isn't going to get better until you become proactive.

It doesn't matter how much you love your wife. This is your child's life at stake every single day. Get yourself in a strong legal position and secure your daughter's safety and future. Get custody. Do what is necessaary. Don't continue to enable this situation by doing nothing. Words don't work. Actions do. Act.

[ttt.]

To baby_nurse and luckyrobin:

I dont think getting a lawyer or evaluating his relationship is really good advice for Mitch.
If you have read his previous posts, he does not want to leave his wife. As shocking as it may be, he has decided, and I would do the same, that he would rather be with his wife and she be a heavy smoker, than to be without his wife.
Also, you have to keep in mind that, according to Mitch's research, it is not against the law for a parent to supply their own child with cigarettes in his state.
We also have to keep in mind that Mitch works 12 or more hours a day and said he has had some trouble with alcohol in the past. Fighting with my significant other would probably drive me to drink too. With this in mind, especially the fact that he would not be home to care for her most of the time, and it is legal for his wifeto supply their daughter with cigarettes, no one can be certain that he would attain even partial custody. If he were to sue for divorce and custody, he might completely lose and end up seperated from his wife and without any custody of his daughter, losing everything he cares about and gaining nothing except a monthly alimony payment.
You also have to keep in mind that neither his wife or daughter want to quit smoking. Any student of addiction and rehab should know that you cannot force a person to quit their addiction if they do not want to. Rehab is pointless if you don't want to change. Even if there were some sort of program that could miraculously cure his daughter of the desire to smoke, who would force her to go. certainly not his wife? And befoer you suggest that they both get help for quitting smoking, please remember that his wife said she would leave him if he ever tried to make her quit smoking.
I really don't think there is anyway to get the two women in Mitch's life toquit smoking. His daughter is certainly not going to quit when she sees her mother smoking, that she is relatively and acceptably ok after smoking for many years. As I said in a previous post, nothing is going to reverse the tide fo their smoking addictions until someone hits rock bottom. I hate to suggest this, but if his wife were diagnosed with COPD, she might quit, but maybe not, many smokers continue to smoke after diagnosis.
At this point, I think we should focus our attention on helping Mitch manage his current situation and make the best of it.

To Mitch:
Tahnks for all of your replies. I hope youknow that I have your back and would help in any way that I can. I await your reply.

[shaggy]

Mitch, my heart goes out to you. It's not easy to live with an addict regardless of the addiction.

The best advice I can offer is to take care of yourself and do whatever you can to stop enabling your wife's habit. You might look into a group like Al-Anon. It's for the family members of alcoholics, but many people it find it a useful resource for other situations.

[LuckyRobin]

That is why I said he needs medical power of attorney. Then he can legally force the issue. I have been following this thread since it began and I believe it has far more to do with mental illness than smoking. It is illegal to buy cigarettes for someone under the age of 18, period, in all 50 states. It is illegal to give a child a cigarette in all 50 states. It is a gross misdemeanor punishable by a $5000 fine and/or a year in jail. It may or may not be illegal for the child to smoke them, but it is illegal for anyone of legal age, including a parent to buy them and give them to a minor. And federal law does state it is illegal for a person under age 18 to possess them, with the same punishment of $5000 and/or a year in jail. So while the daughter may or may not be breaking the law by smoking, and it sounds like she is, the mother is definitely breaking the law by providing them.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

What the heck, I'll weigh in on this after all. Hard to believe this might be a real post. Hard to belive that the OP Mitch71 and the poster ttt are not one in the same person.

How about posting somewhere other than a board centered on saving money if you need some sort of support or help. If you see the most important part of the issue as one of saving money, then you have really been knocked off your footing.

Go to the child's doctor for help. Go to your own doctor for help. Call child protective services on your family if you need someone else to intervene. Ask anybody else in your life to call child protective services if you cannot bring yourself to do it. A neighbor, a buddy, a grandparent, an aunt, and uncle, someone you ride the bus with in the morning. Heck, ask your daughter to call as her healthcare is being neglected if you all are providing her the means and place to smoke. You all need some sort of intervention...

...if this is real.
[color me] skeptical [/color me]

[Baby_nurse]

To baby_nurse and luckyrobin:


At this point, I think we should focus our attention on helping Mitch manage his current situation and make the best of it.

To Mitch:
Tahnks for all of your replies. I hope youknow that I have your back and would help in any way that I can. I await your reply.

Yes, let's all help Mitch save money while he and his wife are actively killing their daughter. Great idea. He will be able to use that saved money to pay for his daughter's medical bills in the years to come.

[Mitch71]

Shaggy, thanks for your support. You’re definitely right that its not easy to live with any kind of addict, whether its just a cigarette addict or another kind.

LuckyRobin, I appreciate your concern, but I did talk to an attorney, and they said that in our state, that its not actually against the law in this state for a person under the age of eighteen to possess or use a tobacco product in a private residence when accompanies by a parent or legal guardian. The attorney also told me that her own teenage daughter has been caught smoking too, and that she hates it too, but that underage smoking penalties are almost impossible to prosecute against a parent and are only usually brought against a retail store selling tobacco to underaged minors. She said since I never buy or provide my daughter with cigarettes, and in fact I actually encourage her to try to stop smoking, and have even given her stop smoking pamphlets before, that I have done just about all that I reasonably can and that she doesn’t think a parent like me can be prosecuted. I promise you I have been worried about the idea that I might be charged or fined with something just because my daughter is addicted to cigarettes, but apparently its pretty uncommon for them to charge the parents of teenagers addicted to cigarettes.
As far as my wife’s mental illness, yes, she is mentally ill, she has clinical depression and is on a prescription for it. My daughter has been diagnosed as ADHD, as well as Depressed, and most disconcertingly one psychiatrist said she be a candidate for borderline bipolar-schizophrenic, but both my wife and I were very hesitant after hearing that and took her to see a second psychiatrist who confirmed her depression and ADHD, but said that he would not diagnose her as bipolar-schizophrenic at this time, but that she was an at risk given the family history of mental illness and substance abuse. Apparently, heavy smoking of upto three or four packs a day is not unusual for people with this collection of mental illnesses.

Joan, I assure you I am very concerned about what is happening with my daughter and have done a lot to try and fix it. Truth is, this started out about the issues of my wife’s chain smoking costing a small fortune, and my eventual discovery that she was not only letting our teenage daughter smoke cigarettes behind my back, but had in fact been giving her cigarettes. We’ve had more than one round of serious divorce related talks, but as I believe I’ve mentioned before, after talking with an attorney what would seem like an open and shut case is far from it. The attorney said that the fact that my wife has let our teenage daughter smoke cigarettes or even bought her cigarettes would easily be outweighed in a custody dispute by the fact that I previously had two DWI arrests, including one while my daughter was riding in the car with me, and the fact that I’ve continued to struggle with alcoholism. Worse, my wife is also quite aware that I once had a very brief extra marital affair with a younger woman who had previously filled in once or twice as a babysitter when our main babysitter was unavailable. Even though that was years ago, the attorney said that would be weighed heavily against me, along with the DWIs, and that given that apparently there is a strong presumption in favor of the mother retaining custody of the child, that chances are I would either be denied custody or at most be given visitation every other weekend if I divorced my wife. Then I would be even less involved in my daughter’s life, and have even less of a chance to try to steer her right.
On top of all of that, the lawyer said if I tried to divorce my wife, that because I have no pre-numptial agreement, I would lose half my assets to my wife, she would likely get to keep the “marital domicile” ie the House, and that I would then have to pay her alimony totaling about 1/3rd of my total pre-tax income, in addition to the cost likely awarded to her for child support for our fourteen year old daughter. Essentially, she said that if I divorced my wife, just because she lets my daughter smokes cigarettes, I would essentially be burying myself financially, and probably still loose custody of my daughter. Given that I very much do love my wife, flaws and all, and of course love my daughter, That is totally unacceptable to me.

TTT, again, thanks for the detailed advice on your experiences in dealing with other heavy smokers in your family. If its helpful for you, I’ll continue to try to answer your earlier questions if I can.

Have you had enough time to notice a marked increase in your daughter's smoking yet?”

- Yes, Im afraid so. I think she’s been a lot smoking more since she’s been at home alone all summer.

“Have you noticed if your wife's own smoking is increasing?.”

-Not really, I think she still smokes about the same.

“Do you know for certain (such as by something they have said) that they smoke,or smoke extra, just because they are bored?
For example your daughter might complain of being bored, so your wife tells her smoke another cigarette or group of cigarettes.”

-Actually, now that you mention it, I do think my daughter has said something along the lines of she was bored and did nothing but smoke cigarettes and watch tv.

“Do you ever see your daughter get breathless when just sitting on the couch not doing anything?”

-Not that I can recall, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she’s had asthma attacks while she was sitting on the couch smoking.

“If your wife's cough worse than your daughters?

-Yes, my wife’s is much worse, she’s been smoking longer.

“Can you guess how frequently they cough? for example your wif might cough every 10 mintues and your daughter once per hour.”

-Well, Im at work most of the day so I don’t know for sure, but in the evening I guess my wife coughs several times every hour Id guess, and I might only hear my daughter cough once an hour, unless she’s had bronchitis or something like that, in which case it’d be more.

“Do they normally have just a single cough, or a little fit of coughs?”

-It usually more like a little fit of coughs I guess.

“My significant other has a pertty bad cough. On a "good" day she might cough every 15-20 minutes, and have a little fit of 3-4 coughs each time. On a bad day, it can be as bad as every 5-10 minutes and she can have fits that last up to a few minutes. On bad days she can get breathless and winded just from coughing and can even get red in the face. The more she smokes during the day the more liekly she is to get breathless in the evening just sitting on the couch. She seems to cough up something, like phlegm at least 20% of the time and it often has little brown flecks in it. Sometimes, especially in the morning or when she has to undertake physical activitiy, she will cough up something black. She will often say she feels a pinching sensation in her lungs, but keeps right on chaining anyway.
One other thing that I had noticed is that in the evenings she will sometimes chainsmoke for a an extended peiod of time, like 2 hours, like your wife does sometimes, but lately she somtimes stops for just 1-2 minutes; as in she will chainsmoke 5 or so in a row and stop for 2 minutes, then smoke like 10 more right in a row. When I asked her why she was taking a break for just 2 minutes, since she rarely takes a break if she is just sitting in front of the TV, she said that she had to stop to catch her breath. I was shocked that she was chainsmoking until she couldnt breath but then only taking a break just long enough to catch her breath before going right back to her chainsmoking. Have you seen your wife or daughter do this?”

-Yes, I’ve seen my wife chainsmoke several cigarettes in a row, then after coughing and wheezing and spitting up phlegm, she has to wait a minute to catch her breath before lighting another cigarette. It’s heartbreaking, really. Moreover, its heartbreaking to know that our daughter has seen her mother like this, and that she continues to smoke anyways.

“I know that you ahve said that your wife has a bad cough, but does she ever wheeze or struggle to breath like your daughter does?”

-Yes, my wife frequently wheezes and struggles to breathe. I’ve told her on more than one occasion that the cigarettes may have something to do with that, but she just ignores me.

“My significant other had to climb up a flight of stairs the other day. By the time she got to the top, she was pretty red in the face and had to sit down to catch her breath, but within just a couple minutes she said she had to have a cigarette. I couldn't beleive my eyes as i watched her, still a little red in the face, coughing, struggling to breath, but still trying to smoke. I suppose your two would be in about the same boat?”

-I’m pretty sure that exactly the same thing that happens in your family happens in my family. I’ve seen my wife get winded walking up a flight of stairs, like carrying a load of laundry while smoking a cigarette, then set the laundry basket down outside out daughters room while trying to catch her breathe, then have to go in and sit down on our daughters bed to catch her breath, all while still smoking a cigarette. Its horrifying to remember the doctor’s words telling my wife that she may already be developing early stage emphesyema from her smoking, and to see her continue to smoke the way she does.

“You sid that your wife frequently offers your daughter a cigarette, but they smoke different brands. Can you think of what she says when she offers her one?”

-Not really, a lot of times Im not around when it happens, but from what I can tell she just offers it to her.

“In an earlier post you said that your daughter claimed that smoking menthol cigarettes eased her sore throat, ie the more she smoked the better it felt. Have you heard either your wife or daughter make any other claims like that? For example, I could see you wife making a similar claim to my significant other, either to you in defence of her smoking, or more liekly to your daughter: ""Here honey, light up another cigarette, smoking will make your cough settle down." ?

-Um, I don’t think I’ve heard those exact words. Id be pretty upset if I heard my wife specifically instruct my daughter to smoke more to cough less, but I have heard my wife and daughter both espouse the idea that smoking menthol cigarettes when they were sick made them feel better.

“I think one of the reasons that my significant other is so addicted, and has ceated for herself so many issues related to smoking, like a cough, is because she takes really big hard drags and then inhales all of that smoke so deeply inside herself and then holds onto it for so long. Despite that, she still somehow seems to make this big, obnoxious, room-filling exhales. Sometimes, I come home and the room she is in is so smokey that I don't see how she can see the TV. Do your wifie and daughter both smoke in a similar way, taking big drags and inhaling lots of smoke and holding it in a long time?”

-Yes, I think they do smoke in pretty similar ways from what I can tell and from what I have seen.

“Do you think that's part of why they're so addicted?”

-I suppose so, although I think they, like I, just have addictive personalities and that’s a large part of it as well.

“Do you ever come home to a smoke filled house?”

-Well, I don’t know if I’d call it smoke filled per se, but I’ve definitely come home and found an awful lot of cigarette smoke hanging in the air before.

“Was your daughter born with asthma and did it get worse every year?”

-She wasn’t born with asthma, but she was diagnosed with asthma when she was maybe 3 years old or so, and it has definitely gotten worse over the years.

“I know you said your wife smoked less while pregnant with your daughter, but how much did she smoke and do you think it caused your daughter's asthma?”

-I really don’t know exactly how much my wife smoked while pregnant, because I think she may have not been telling me the entire truth the whole time. She has told me before that it was “barely half a pack a day” and other times she’s claimed it was “less than a pack a day” but Im pretty sure that she’s used euphamisms like that before when describing a reduced pack and a half to two pack a day habit, so if that was any indication, I’d guess she probably was smoking more like at least two packs a day and that yes, that probably did cause our daughter’s asthma.

“Did your wife smoke 3 and 4 packs a day as a teenager?”

-I think she has admitted to smoking upto three packs a day as a teenager before, but othertimes has said that it was only two packs a day. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between.

“Did your wife has asthma growing up?”

-I don’t really know, but I haven’t heard about it if she did.

“You have mentioned that you are worried about the state of your wife's lungs (and your daughters too), is there any history of smoking related disease in her family? My significant other has several cases of smoking related cancer and emphysema but it neither seems to have prevented her from starting to smoked, ever limited her consuptiuon, or even give her a second thought about quitting.”

-Definitely from the same boat here. There are a number of people in my wife’s family that have died from either lung cancer or had complications from smoking, like they had emphysema and were still smoking when they had a heart attack, or something like that.

You’ve asked before if I thought it was possible that she could be “smoking more with the goal of making her asthma/breathing/coughing worse so that she has to do less” and the more I think about it, the more confused I am as to whether or not that is what she’s really doing or not. But the thought has also occurred to me that maybe she just does it because she likes smoking, and just doesn’t care about the health consequences. There are other things that she does, that cause her discomfort, that she continues to do because she likes the way they look, and dosen’t care about the consequences. For instance, she has a pair of dressy high heels that she insists on wearing without pantyhose, even though it gives her terrible blisters every single time and she ends up with her feet covered in bandaids. This weekend we went to her cousin’s wedding out of town, and she insisted on wearing these same dress shoes, and sure enough after wearing them barefoot for one night at the rehearsal dinner, she was asking me to go buy her some band-aids for her feet. Of course I bought her the band aids and she put them on both the backs of her bare heels that had been rubbed raw by her shoes, as well as both the inside edge of her toes that had also blisters on them from the shoes. Then, she still refused to wear hose and just slipped her blistered, band aid covered bare feet back into her shoes for the wedding, and wore them anyways because she said the shoes looked pretty and that she was “willing to sacrifice for fashion” or something like that. I don’t think she particularly wants to get blisters on her feet or specifically wants to cover her feet in bandaids, just that she likes wearing all of her shoes barefoot, and that these particular shoes tend to give her bad blisters, but that she likes these shoes enough to put up with the blisters and bandaids. I don’t know if that explanation or analogy makes complete sense in the context of smoking, but it does generally make me think that its quite possible that she just doesn’t care about the adverse health consequences of her smoking whatsoever, and is willing to put up with them to get what she wants.


“This is just a suggetsion. I think home schooling might actually limit your daughter's smoking, possibly. Every time there is a long break from school, her smoking increases. Last summer it was up to 2 packs a day. This past christmas, it was up to 2 cartons a week. This summer, she will probably end up doing 3 cartons a week. I think the reason that this happens is that she smokes a certain amount on week days, and then has to smoke more on weekends to satisfy her increased addiction. When she has a long break from school, her smoking rises up to her weekend amount every day. Then she stays roughly at that amount during the weekdays and increased her smoking on the weekends. If your daughter gets up to 3 cartons a week, whcih I think is a given, then that would be just over 4 packs a day. Once school starts again, I feel like she will smoke about 4 packs a day but 5 packs a day on weekends. What could easily end up happening is that over christmas break this year or summer next year, she might get to where she is doing 5 full packs every day, and never cut back down.”

-I’m really afraid to admit that you may be more right than I wanted to admit at first, at least about the seemingly exponential rate at which my daughter’s smoking is increasing. I really think its possible that she could be smoking up to three cartons a week by the end of the summer, if she isn’t already. I don’t see how it’d be possible for her to continue to smoke that amount during the school year though unless she was smoking while at school, which she’s already gotten into big trouble over. After the last time she was caught smoking at school, they said that she would be permanently kicked out and would be required to attend the Alternative Discipline school, which is where they send kids with drug problems, drinking problems, and pregnant girls. They even have a nursery there for all babies of the freshmen girls who get pregnant but still have to go to school till they are sixteen. That is NOT the kind of school environment I want my teenage daughter to get stuck in, because being around girls like that will only put her at greater risk. But no number of warnings I have given her about it seem to convince her that she needs to try to not smoke while at school. She said she is too addicted to be able to make it more than an hour or two without a cigarette, and my wife’s sympathies and willingness to try to accommodate her smoking only makes it worse. Im really scared that what you say may be right, and that my daughter may one day be headed towards smoking five packs a day within the next year or so, given the way things have been going lately.



I don’t know where to go from here. It sounds like you have a lot of experience with other heavy smokers in your family, and that a lot of other people are very conflicted about what I should do when faced with a difficult situation. I am very conflicted myself, but I figure that the best I can do is to continue to try to discourage my daughter’s smoking, even though it seems that the harder I discourage her from smoking the more determined she is to keep smoking. I suppose its that way for many parents, and that being oppositional is just in her nature. But it hasn’t made any of this any easier, that’s for sure. Thanks again for everyone’s encouraging and supportive comments.

[ttt.]

Mitch:
Thank you again for your reply; it is always nice to hear from you. Your answers are helpful, please continue.

Do you have any idea how heavily your daughter is smoking right now?
Is your wife smoking close to 5 packs every day?
In your April post, you said that everytime you see your daughter light up a cigarete, you see her chain smoke 3-4 in a row instead of just 1. Do you see her chaining more in a row now, like 4 or 5 or 6 every time?
Is your wife still chainsmoking 5 or 6 in a row every time and never going more than 30 minutes without a cigarette if she can help it?
You have previously said that in the evenings in front of the TV, you have seen your wife chainsmoke 10 or 15 in a row in a 2 hour period. How often do you see your wife do this; do you think she does it every night?
Have you been seeing your daughter do this too?
When I see my significat other chainsmoke, what she usually does is smoke a cigarette until its almost done, then either set it in the ashtray still burning. She will then pull out a new cigarette from the pack and put it in her mouth. She then pick up the butt of her old cigarette and uses it to light the new one. Sometimes she finds there is a still a drag left on the old one, so she will take a drag from it (holding her freshly lit one in her left hand since she's right handed) before crushing it out and going on to smoke the entirety of her new one, before repeating this as many times as she feels she needs to. Do your wife and daughter smoke pretty much the same way?
Something else that I have noticed about my significant other, that I have asked her to stop but she refuses: When I see most people light a cigarette using a lighter, the touch the flame to the cigarette and suck on the cigarette, pulling some smoke into thier mouth. I guess this smoke is different than "normal" cigarette smoke, since they usually exhale this out and then smoke normally, but my significant other always seems to inahle this smoke too. I worry that this smokeis even worse since not only does it have all of the components of normal cigarette smoke but also has whatever gases are produced from the burning lighter fluid. Have you noticed how your wife and daughter do it?
In your most recent post, you said, " I’ve seen my wife chainsmoke several cigarettes in a row, then after coughing and wheezing and spitting up phlegm, she has to wait a minute to catch her breath before lighting another cigarette." How often do you see this happen to your wife?
Does it only happen rarely (like once a week) or every day (such as when she tries to smoke continuously for hours at a time in the evenings)?
Or does it happen often? For example, yousaid you wife usually will sit down, and smoke 5 or 6 cigarettes in a row, then get up an do something for 20 or 30 minutes. Is she able to smoke 5 or cigarettes in a row without taking a break; or is she only able to smoke 3-4 in row, then forced to tkae a break for minute, before chaining through several more?
If she is forced to take a break like that, and can only smoke 3 or 4 cigarettes in a row, what happens in the evening when she tries to chainsmoke continuously for 2 hours? Does she smoke 3-4 in a row, get a bad coughing/wheezing fit, stop smoking a minute or so, then just go right back to it and chain another 3 or 4 before she has to stop again, repeating this cycle 3 or 4 or 5 times in a row before finally getting up to do something?
Have you seen your daughter exhibit this behavior yet, ie smoke 3 or 4 in a row, then stop for just a minute or so to catch her breath, then chainsmoke some more?
You said that a doctor told your wife that she may already have early stage emphysema, when was that?
What is your daughter's reaction to seeing your wife struggling to breath?
In your last post you said/inferred that you beleive your wife smoked 2-3 packs a day as a teenager and also 2-3 packs a day when pregnant with your daughter. Do you think she smoked more heavily before getting pregnant with your daughter and cut down?
Did she breastfeed your daughter?
You said in your last post that it's heartbreaking to watch your wife smoke one cigarette after another until she is literally having so much trouble breathing that she has to stop for minute, but goes right back to chainsmoking as soon as she can, and even more so that your daughter watches this and it has no effect on her. Something I would describe as even more heart breaking ws wtching an in law, who had smoke heavily her entire pregnancy, smoke while breastfeeding her new born. She would, while her baby was feeding from her, smoke one cigarette after another, light one off the butt of the last,and sometimes even exhaling out of her nose, the smoke cascading down over the baby. I remember her once saying that it was too hard to feed without smoking, that she was too stressed and that smoking relaxed her. She also said there was no point in worrying about second hand smoke as her kids would see her smoking and that would encourage them to start on their own anyway one day. Do you know if your wife ever smoked while nursing your daughter?
If you think your wife smoked 2-3 packs a day while pregnant with your daughter, how heavily do you think she smoked between the birth of your daughter and when you prepared for trying to conceive again?
In a much older post, you said that your wife cut dwon to 1 1/2 packs a day while trying to conceive a second time, but in your most recent post you said that you're "pretty sure that she’s used euphamisms like ["half a pack a day"] before when describing a reduced pack and a half to two pack a day habit, so how heavily do you think she actually smoked before the misscarriage and what effect (since she smoked 2-3 packs a day with your daghter) do you think it had on the pregnancy?
Do you think she might have smoked 2-3 packs a day in high school, and then generally saw her smoking increase up to 3-4 pack a day, perhapps cutting back a little during her first pregnancy, but quickly going right back up to 3-4 packs a day after,but then when she got pregnant again, since there were no serious issues the first time, didn't bother cutting down at all?
How much effort do you think your wife put into cutting down while pregnant?
Have you ever met your wife's parents?
Do they smoke, and if so how heavily?
Do you know what their reaction to your wife's smoking as a preteen/teenage was; were theyas accepting of it as your wife is of your daughter's?
My significant other told me that even watching her mom die from lung cancer at 45 after smoking 3 packs a day (whe my signicant other was 21) was not enough to keep her from smoking even more heavily than that.

So now that I have ask my questions, which your answers to will help me, I would like to offer my advice to you in return. My simple advice is home school your daughter. Since she is 14, I assume that you have had the birds and the bees with her or your wife has, but if not, someone should. I don't know about your religous or other views, but if you and your wife and your pediatrician/doctor can agree, you may want to consider birht control for your child, especially if you are not going to home school her. I have a family member, a single mom. She has to work long long hours just like you do because she is a single mom. Unlike your family, her children's father is a deadbeat and of no help. I really aplaud you for sticking by your family. Anyway, she denied her daughter birth controll, for relgious reasons I guess, forcing her to rely on condoms only. Well, she wasn't home to watche her daughte r all the time, just like you are not. Her daughter met a boy when she was a freshman and he was senior. Long story short she is now barely 16 but 6 months pregnantand she smoked 3 packs a day, an addiction that is encouraged and funded by her boyfriend and his step mom (who smoked 4 or more packs a day like your wife. I am not trying to say that I beleive that your wife might encoruage your daughter to get pregnant as a teenage, although you never know, especially since she had a misscarriage, but it's never a bad thing to be safe. More important, about home schooling. Your earlier argument was right, smoking is a gateway drug. The reason is that if yousmoke, you must inherantly care more about smoking than about your own health, and that is a slippery slope. Considering everything else I know about your daughter, as long as you continue to offer her the support you have been, which you might be able to improve upon, I don't know that I beleive she could get into hard dugs like meth or coke or whatever. Weed is a different story. I don't know what state you live in or if weed is legal, but many young people feel that it should be and do it anyway. Its a much much much smaller step from cigarettes to weed than it is from cigarettes to meth. Weed, despite what pot smokers may tell you is actually worse for you that cigarette, often because it is unfiltered. Also, because smoking weed often produces a pleasurable "high" feeling, and that feeling can be extended (in terms of duration) by smoking cigarettes (don't ask me how, but it does), smoking weed can worse a cigarette addiction. I have seen a number of people who started out smoking 5-10 time a day but start smoking pot daily and then they were smoking 2+ packs a day right along with it. I don't know how much more your daughter can smoke in a day, but it is possible, at least mathmatically, and her smokingany more plus pot is going to have grave consequences. I think the chances of her trying and liking pot are much higher if she ends up in alternative school. I also think the chances of her meeting a boythat doesn't care if he gets her pregnant are even higher than the odds of her trying pot. In my honest opinion, if she ends up going to alternative schoo, I would be willing to bet that she ends up smoking pot often (if not heavily) by the end of high school, and has a high chance of getting pregnant.
By the end of the summer she is probably going to smoke just as heavily as your wife. I don't know how much more she will really smoke if you homeschool her and your wife is probably not going to encourage her to smoke pot or get pregnant. At this point I don't see much reason to not home school her and every reason to avoid letting her end up in alternative school, which since she will probably be smoking 80+ times a day by the time school stats and is going to be sent there the next time she gets caughter smoking at school is an inevitbility if you send her back to public school.
Hope this helps.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Would someone braver than me please google "smoking fetish," and "cigarette fetish"?