Post COVID customer service

[james.hendrickson]

Yes that’s terrible. Those guys should go to jail. What companies out there are letting the CEO pay himself? I need to avoid those for sure.

Texas, um...you know in a lot of cases the CEO recruits and hires the board, right? Thats very common in scale ups.

[TexasHusker]

Texas, um...you know in a lot of cases the CEO recruits and hires the board, right? Thats very common in scale ups.

Yeah I would like to avoid those outfits for sure. So you think that the board and the officers are breaking fiduciary obligation to line the pockets of the CEO? That’s serious stuff there.

[Fishindude77]

Only way a CEO would ever be able to appoint the entire board would be if he / she was majority shareholder starting from scratch, setting up the first board. Board members typically have terms and are nominated and voted into position by the rest of the board, then re-elections are typically decided by shareholders proxy votes.

Sure, there have been a few newsworthy cases where officers and boards scammed a company and sent them down the tubes but those are few and far between. For every one of those you hear about there are probably thousands of properly managed, publicly held and traded corporations.

Seems to be a lot of unfounded hate for wealthy corporations and officers. If you've always been an employee and never ran your own business, you really don't understand how truly difficult it is to run a company, retain talent, and keep things profitable over a long period of time. It never makes the news on those years when business takes a hard hit and corporate officers get salary reductions, all bonuses get eliminated, etc.

[TexasHusker]

Seems to be a lot of unfounded hate for wealthy corporations and officers.

I love rich people. They usually have a lot of nice stuff.

[Fishindude77]

I love rich people. They usually have a lot of nice stuff.

No kidding.
Go to work for a poor guy and see how that works out.

[TexasHusker]

No kidding.
Go to work for a poor guy and see how that works out.

lol. Touche.

I have a relative who used to work for Mooney Aircraft in Kerrville, TX. He spent his whole career there. As we all know, rich people buy planes. But when rich people don't buy the planes - due to a recession, a change in tax code, etc., then the whole darn plant suffers. Hours get cut, people laid off. This would happens in cycles. Some president somewhere would get this bright idea to soak the rich with luxury taxes on things like airplanes, and orders got cut in half or more. He got laid off once but called back eventually.

Usually when the gubmit tries to step in and fix something up, it turns into a cluster. I am open to hearing about exceptions though.

[ua_guy]

Seems to be a lot of unfounded hate for wealthy corporations and officers.

I don't see unfounded hate. I see legitimate dislike of wealthy corps and officers who do whatever they're going to do, in self interest, whether or not it fulfills their responsibility to the company/shareholders, or employees, and often legality and morality be damned.

They don't get a pass because running a company is "hard". They chose to do that.

[TexasHusker]

I don't see unfounded hate. I see legitimate dislike of wealthy corps and officers who do whatever they're going to do, in self interest, whether or not it fulfills their responsibility to the company/shareholders, or employees, and often legality and morality be damned.

They don't get a pass because running a company is "hard". They chose to do that.

Who has a legitimate dislike of wealthy corporations? Aren't corporations owned by people with their stocks and 401Ks? If I'm a Tesla shareholder, can we not be friends anymore because Elon is so stinking rich and has some really nice stuff?

What officers are doing this? Need to do some whistle-blowing and report this to the SEC.

[myrdale]

I see legitimate dislike of wealthy corps and officers who do whatever they're going to do, in self interest, whether or not it fulfills their responsibility to the company/shareholders, or employees, and often legality and morality be damned.

What higher morality is there other than self interest?

[ua_guy]

Who has a legitimate dislike of wealthy corporations? Aren't corporations owned by people with their stocks and 401Ks? If I'm a Tesla shareholder, can we not be friends anymore because Elon is so stinking rich and has some really nice stuff?

What officers are doing this? Need to do some whistle-blowing and report this to the SEC.

Don't be dramatic. Elon Musk has been the subject of SEC investigations.

[ua_guy]

What higher morality is there other than self interest?

Laws and morals sometimes align and sometimes they don't; they aren't necessarily connected. So I suppose there isn't consequence to doing things people would judge to be stealing money, or taking advantage of someone, or doing unjust things. You do you.

But that doesn't take away anyone's freedom to speak out or legislate against those things, and when they do cross legal boundaries, these people should be held accountable.

[TexasHusker]

Don't be dramatic. Elon Musk has been the subject of SEC investigations.

ok then bad example. I don't keep up with the big corporations but maybe some other bigshot. These guys can go to prison for all of this, no?

As a side note, "no control or say-so" is a big reason why I became disillusioned with the stock market. You think you've got a great stock - AT&T - and then the CEO comes out and *kind of* admits a huge mess with the whole TimeWarner deal, and doesn't even bother apologizing to shareholders. When asked about the share price, he said "People shouldn't be trading stocks." Nice.

At least with your own businesses and private holdings, you can at least screw yourself instead of someone else doing it.

[james.hendrickson]

I don't see unfounded hate. I see legitimate dislike of wealthy corps and officers who do whatever they're going to do, in self interest, whether or not it fulfills their responsibility to the company/shareholders, or employees, and often legality and morality be damned.

They don't get a pass because running a company is "hard". They chose to do that.

You know UA_Guy, I often though the idea that CEO's should ONLY maximize shareholder value invited moral cretinism. If anything people in positions of influence should exercise MORE moral restraint, not less.

[james.hendrickson]

What higher morality is there other than self interest?

The problem is that the concept of self interest as being the driving economic force behind the modern economy is rooted in the idea that people are capable of rationally calculating their own self interest. However, people aren't always rational. They often act to maximize their short term self interest at the expense of their long term interests. Or they may act in an emotional, rather than a rational manner.

[TexasHusker]

Laws and morals sometimes align and sometimes they don't; they aren't necessarily connected. So I suppose there isn't consequence to doing things people would judge to be stealing money, or taking advantage of someone, or doing unjust things. You do you.

But that doesn't take away anyone's freedom to speak out or legislate against those things, and when they do cross legal boundaries, these people should be held accountable.

Hey we agree on something.

Each state has its own laws for corporations, but they are all very similar. Generally, there are three basic types of fiduciary duties, and these are readily available by a quick Google search:


1) Duty of Care – directors and officers must use care and be diligent when making decisions on behalf of the corporation and its shareholders (who are the true owners of the corporation). Directors and officers meet their duty of care if they act:

• In good faith
• With the care of a reasonable person in like position
• With reasonable belief their decisions are in best interest of the corporation

2) Duty of Loyalty – directors and officers must have an undivided duty of loyalty to the corporation and shareholders. They must put the interests of shareholders and the corporation above their own interests. To understand the duty of loyalty, let us illustrate several ways it in which can be violated:

• Gaining secret profit belonging to corporation
• Competing with corporation
• Seizing corporate opportunity
• Self-dealing with corporation
• Improperly using corporate assets
• Transferring corporate assets or opportunities to a third party or a relative
• Failing to disclose information of value to the corporation

3) Duty of Good Faith – Some states, in addition to duty of loyalty, impose a duty of good faith which is at times defined as "conscious disregard" or "intentional dereliction of duty."