Saving Money And Paying Bills Are "Conservative Values"?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I find that it doesn't matter conservative or liberal values. Neither will pay when they lose a job and foreclose on a house. You are going to tell me that only conservative people don't go into foreclosure? And only liberals do? I think the same thing applies to student loans.

The main thing is if they think it's important to pay. Financial values I don't think are separated by political stances.

[pflyers85]

Yes. And if everyone had to pay for college 100% up front, would it still be possible for all? I maintain that it would not.

If everyone had to pay for college up front with the absence of student loans the cost of tuition would drop significantly. Student loans enable colleges and universities to jack up their tuition because the basis of cost is not "how much can students afford right now" but "how much debt are students allowed to take on to pay back in the future".

It's very possible even today for most if not all students to pay for college without taking out student loans. I started out at community college in the fall of 2003 to the spring of 2005. I was able to cash flow the tuition at community college simply working full time in the summers and 25-30 hrs a week part time during the fall and spring semesters taking a full time course load. From there I took out loans when I transferred out to a 4 year school but looking back I didn't really have to do that. I could have simply started working full time and cash flowed the tuition at a university if I attended on a part time basis. It would have taken me longer to complete the Bachelors degree but I could have graduated without debt.

[Petunia 100]

If everyone had to pay for college up front with the absence of student loans the cost of tuition would drop significantly. Student loans enable colleges and universities to jack up their tuition because the basis of cost is not "how much can students afford right now" but "how much debt are students allowed to take on to pay back in the future".

It's very possible even today for most if not all students to pay for college without taking out student loans. I started out at community college in the fall of 2003 to the spring of 2005. I was able to cash flow the tuition at community college simply working full time in the summers and 25-30 hrs a week part time during the fall and spring semesters taking a full time course load. From there I took out loans when I transferred out to a 4 year school but looking back I didn't really have to do that. I could have simply started working full time and cash flowed the tuition at a university if I attended on a part time basis. It would have taken me longer to complete the Bachelors degree but I could have graduated without debt.

Yes, never having taken any student loans myself, I do realize that it is possible to attend college without them.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

When it costs that much and you penalize students who are independent with their parents incomes it won't work out. I don't know but by the same token as home mortgages if everyone had to pay cash for a house then what price would a house be? It's the same exact parallel as college. Paying cash upfront for college like a house would be impossible. I say that as someone who couldn't imagine how cheap houses would have to be to do that.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I was listening to some Dave Ramsey ranting about a New York Times article about a post grad defaulting on student loans. The individual in the article pointed fingers at banks for his demise..and how graduates nowadays need to make a choice between life and student loans..in which the author picked life.

Dave Ramsey immediate attributed this individual as being a liberal. Saving and paying off what is owed is now a "conservative value" according to him. "Student loans were created by the liberals..if it was up to me..we should save up enough to pay cash for college...but the liberals want everyone to have an education and will be butt hurt about it if you take it away from them".

What do you guys think? I feel that this individual is just the type who made bad decisions and is blaming the world...is this a liberal mentality? I feel that people on both sides does the same thing.

Dave Ramsey is literally correct about student loans, the program was begun by LBJ, at least the government one.

I try to think about conservatives and liberals I know, not much difference in spending activity that I can see.

[corn18]

I try to think about conservatives and liberals I know, not much difference in spending activity that I can see.

This comment got me thinking about my social group. They vary from middle class to fabulously wealthy. They also vary from liberal to conservative. What's interesting is the two are not correlated as stereotypes might suggest. Some of the wealthy are very liberal and some of the middle class are staunchly conservative. Myself, I hate big government but believe in helping people. Maybe I'm a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

This comment got me thinking about my social group. They vary from middle class to fabulously wealthy. They also vary from liberal to conservative. What's interesting is the two are not correlated as stereotypes might suggest. Some of the wealthy are very liberal and some of the middle class are staunchly conservative. Myself, I hate big government but believe in helping people. Maybe I'm a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative.

I don't mind helping people who truly need it. Problem with that is that I think it actually hurts more people than it helps. Living on your own, depending on yourself is one of the best ways there is to build self esteem.

[Nutria]

I don't mind helping people who truly need it. Problem with that is ...

determining:

1. who actually needs help,
2. who just wants a ride,
3. who's taking advantage of a cushy situation, and
4. how the middle class is getting screwed/squeezed by not being poor enough for grants, and not rich enough to pay off loans quickly enough.

And then there's the fact that "pre-college" is so bad now that University is a requirement to learn enough to be educated.

[Singuy]

This link pretty much proves that there's very little correlation between wealth and conservative values.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/151310/u.s.-republican-not-conservative.aspx

Seems like wealthy people are more willing to vote republican..probably for the lower taxes. But when it comes to ideology, the 1% and the 99% are equal when it comes to the proportions of conservatives vs liberals.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Without exception, all people I know who live off their parents are liberal.

[GoodSteward]

I'm pretty sure financial wisdom and best practices operate outside the scope of political mindsets. The problem is what qualifies as best practices are based off what people think they are entitled to, and entitlement is taught. I think it's easy to know which is right. Which one makes you a benefit to society, and not a burden, typically marks good financial practices. I believe it was the Mongolians back in the day that would kill you after 3 bankruptcies because you were seen as a burden to society.

[Nutria]

Without exception, all people I know who live off their parents are liberal.

Without exception, all of the teen pregnancies that I know of in the past 30 years have been to Bible-believing Christians. The parents that I know who allow their adult children to sponge are mostly conservative, too.

(Do you see the fallacy of treating anecdotes as generally applicable facts?)

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Without exception, all people I know who live off their parents are liberal.

That's interesting....I acknowledge my social circle is small, but I can't think of any adults who live off of their parents. Are you thinking of 18+ year old students?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Without exception, all of the teen pregnancies that I know of in the past 30 years have been to Bible-believing Christians. The parents that I know who allow their adult children to sponge are mostly conservative, too.

(Do you see the fallacy of treating anecdotes as generally applicable facts?)

I'm just stating a fact, little man.

[Nutria]

I believe it was the Mongolians back in the day that would kill you after 3 bankruptcies because you were seen as a burden to society.

Since that would have required Mongolia to have had banks back in the day, I find your assertion most dubious, and requiring much solid evidence.