Saving Money And Paying Bills Are "Conservative Values"?

[Singuy]

I was listening to some Dave Ramsey ranting about a New York Times article about a post grad defaulting on student loans. The individual in the article pointed fingers at banks for his demise..and how graduates nowadays need to make a choice between life and student loans..in which the author picked life.

Dave Ramsey immediate attributed this individual as being a liberal. Saving and paying off what is owed is now a "conservative value" according to him. "Student loans were created by the liberals..if it was up to me..we should save up enough to pay cash for college...but the liberals want everyone to have an education and will be butt hurt about it if you take it away from them".

What do you guys think? I feel that this individual is just the type who made bad decisions and is blaming the world...is this a liberal mentality? I feel that people on both sides does the same thing.

[feh]

I was listening to some Dave Ramsey ranting about a New York Times article about a post grad defaulting on student loans. The individual in the article pointed fingers at banks for his demise..and how graduates nowadays need to make a choice between life and student loans..in which the author picked life.

Dave Ramsey immediate attributed this individual as being a liberal. Saving and paying off what is owed is now a "conservative value" according to him. "Student loans were created by the liberals..if it was up to me..we should save up enough to pay cash for college...but the liberals want everyone to have an education and will be butt hurt about it if you take it away from them".

What do you guys think? I feel that this individual is just the type who made bad decisions and is blaming the world...is this a liberal mentality? I feel that people on both sides does the same thing.

Dave is biased. He sees the world through Limbaugh-colored lenses.

Nothing new.

[rennigade]

I think the issue with people not wanting to pay back student loans is after college is over and they have a degree (piece of paper,) there's nothing really to show for it other than that official degree printed on a nice hunk of stock.

As far as right or left side...its both sides. I know many people on both sides who complain about paying student debt back...and those same people suck when it comes to finances.

Dave Ramsey should stick to finances and leave his opinion out of things because he sounds like an idiot with statements like that.

[Nutria]

I was listening to some Dave Ramsey ranting about a New York Times article about a post grad defaulting on student loans. The individual in the article pointed fingers at banks for his demise..and how graduates nowadays need to make a choice between life and student loans..in which the author picked life.

Dave Ramsey immediate attributed this individual as being a liberal. Saving and paying off what is owed is now a "conservative value" according to him. "Student loans were created by the liberals..if it was up to me..we should save up enough to pay cash for college...but the liberals want everyone to have an education and will be butt hurt about it if you take it away from them".

I was just having a similar conversation this morning that sadly got cut off when the nurse called me in for my appointment: self-discipline -- not having children before you're married, etc -- vs. getting comfortable on the government dole, and not marrying because then the woman would lose all her benefits.

What do you guys think? I feel that this individual is just the type who made bad decisions and is blaming the world...is this a liberal mentality? I feel that people on both sides does the same thing.

It surely is a left-wing uber-compassionate money-grows-on-trees-and-the-1% the world owes me a life mentality, which you certainly wouldn't have seen from Richard "my wife wears a respectable Republican cloth coat" Nixon, but would see in hippy-dippy Bernie Sanders supporters.

But in 2016, how many Republican women go to mega-churches in a respectable cloth coat?

[TexasHusker]

A fundamental flaw in our obsession with attending college is that it is now perceived as a vocational school. It is not, and it never was.

College is an institution of higher learning. The higher learning may or may not translate into greater income, but that is not the primary objective of higher learning.

The objective of higher learning is the achievement of advanced critical thinking, through a broad exposure to, among other things, literature, mathematics, syntax, the sciences, business science, the fine arts, and the performing arts.

[Nutria]

A fundamental flaw in our obsession with attending college is that it is now perceived as a vocational school. It is not, and it never was.

College is an institution of higher learning. The higher learning may or may not translate into greater income, but that is not the primary objective of higher learning.

The objective of higher learning is the achievement of a higher level of critical thinking, through a broad exposure to, among other things, literature, mathematics, syntax, the sciences, business science, the fine arts, and the performing arts.

It stopped being that on the day when the first middle- and lower-class GI Bill vets stepped onto campus in 1944.

[TexasHusker]

It stopped being that on the day when the first middle- and lower-class GI Bill vets stepped onto campus in 1944.

Actually it is still very much that, which is why you have so many disillusioned graduates with diploma in hand, working in a coffee shop for $8.75 an hour, and $150,000 in student loans.

Surprise. You were duped.

[Like2Plan]

This reminds me of an article I saw in the New York Times about a week ago. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...quiz.html?_r=0



The article is titled, "The One Question Most Americans Get Wrong About College Graduates"

[Gailete]

I don't particulary think of saving money and paying bills as conservative values as in a political sense. But they have become conservative values for many, as so few want to do the work of earning money and paying for what they WANT. You run so often into the 'I have to have it' and people can justify just about anything they want as a necessity. My ex was a master at that!

I worked my way through college and by the time I graduated in 4 years, I owed not a penny. I did it working in the library, helping in the dining hall, cleaning toilets and bathrooms. One of the best compliments I ever got in my life was when of my professors told me that in all the years he had been at the college, the bathroom by his office had never been cleaner! I came by my education the hard way and 'spending money' for things like laundry, toothpaste, etc. I earned typing papers on a portable, manual typewriter before the days of white-out and I did babysitting. My autistic son got student loans to earn his associates degree and has been paying ahead on them and in a year or so should have them paid off. They started out at around $200/month but much less than that at this point. It has been something like 8-10 years since he graduated and only now, this July has he managed to get a full time job in his field. He had been working PT for them around his other jobs, till THEY wanted him full time and they kept bugging the parent company untill they got the okay. Let's just say, I'm proud of him and his push to get rid of those bills. But then like mom he has been willing to work any job to get to where he is at today. And let me tell you anyone that knows anything about autism knows how difficult it is for a guy like that to walk into a temp job and be able to function. And yes he was sent home at times because he couldn't cut it, but he persevered.

So when i see people thinking they can default on their bills, charge everything they want, etc. I don't have a lot of sympathy for them, but then I think that my son had the benefit of seeing frugal living as he grew and knowing that no one owes us a living. He has made the decision to live without credit cards, he is a great Dave Ramsey fan, reads his books and tries to follow that path. I have nothing against Dave Ramsey.

But as most financial gurus of any type talk, most of them are thinking of people with regular paychecks that don't vary very much. This is where we have the most trouble as other than my SSD check and a very tiny pension we have no clue from month to month of how much we have coming in for the month. Credit card or no yesterday I had to use one as the septic tank needed attention. Anyone here with a septic tank knows that if you don't call the pump out guy when you need to it is going to lend itself to huge repair bills and inconvenience. Why didn't I have money set aside? April was a blood path of taxes, estimated taxes, and property taxes. All I'm proud to say paid for in cash! It has been impossible since then to get any money set aside. My husband due to health problems has made $220 since then and my sales for the on line store are down. So we build up again. And pay off bills again. The cycle all over again. But I know if push comes to shove, I have ~$9K in investments that I can tap if needed, but I'm trying extremely hard not to need it.

So conservative or not, our country is swirling down the toilet as so many are buried under bills for things that they HAVE to have. Not for needs. And even if they are managing to pay their bills, far to many don't have any savings at all. They live paycheck to paycheck. I see those commercials for cell phones and their plans and you this silly voice saying 4 lines for ONLY $169/month or whatever. Who has that kind of money. Our cable for ONLY $60/months (when the basic package might be $20/month) or rabbit ears you can buy once and be done with it assuming you can get the reception. We get 7 channels with ours and many times I still can't find anything to watch so that means I do something else. It is the shop till you drop for clothes nonsense that gets me. Just how much clothing does one person really need? If someone wants to have 40 button down shirts that is their perogative, but if they have no savings wouldn't it have been better to buy only 20 or 10 shirts and save the rest of the money? It is like no one except the people on this board ever think these things out?

[97guns]

but the average college debt is only 37k, take into account all the available grants and your talking pennies

[Nutria]

Actually it is still very much that, which is why you have so many disillusioned graduates with diploma in hand, working in a coffee shop for $8.75 an hour, and $150,000 in student loans.

Dreamers, academics and other sundry leftists believe that it is. And I guess it is for the very tiny minority that become actual Professors (adjunct doesn't count), and for the few girls still looking for an MRS degree. But no one else.

Surprise. You were duped.

It appears that you're contradicting yourself:

• Actually it is still very much that
• Surprise. You were duped.

[TexasHusker]

Dreamers, academics and other sundry leftists believe that it is. And I guess it is for the very tiny minority that become actual Professors (adjunct doesn't count), and for the few girls still looking for an MRS degree. But no one else.



It appears that you're contradicting yourself:

• Actually it is still very much that
• Surprise. You were duped.

I don't count myself as an academian, leftist, nor dreamer: I nearly flunked college, I'm somewhere right of Rush, and have worked very hard to bring a couple of dreams to reality.

We are teaching our kids that college is not a vocational school, but they darn sure need to go so that they can learn to critically think.

College will not, in and of itself, deliver them greater earnings. Earnings will come from using talent to work smart.

[disneysteve]

A fundamental flaw in our obsession with attending college is that it is now perceived as a vocational school. It is not, and it never was.

College is an institution of higher learning. The higher learning may or may not translate into greater income, but that is not the primary objective of higher learning.

The objective of higher learning is the achievement of advanced critical thinking, through a broad exposure to, among other things, literature, mathematics, syntax, the sciences, business science, the fine arts, and the performing arts.

I totally agree, and this is very much what we've taught our daughter. College is about learning critical thinking and expanding your general knowledge base. It may not directly get you a job but it should make you far more attractive to potential employers. Don't overly stress about the choice of major because ultimately it will be having a degree that matters, not what field that degree is in. The vast majority of college grads aren't working in their college field of study.

College is a life lesson. We encourage her to suck up everything she can from the experience. Take courses in various areas, not just focused on her major. As it turns out, she's actually going to end up with a major and two minors by the time she graduates because she's taken a broad approach to learning.

Quite honestly, right now she has no idea what she wants to do when she graduates. She knows where her interests lie but she has no firm grasp on where that will take her as far as employment is concerned, which is just fine as far as I'm concerned. If she works hard, graduates with good grades (and honors, possibly), and demonstrates that she is a hard worker and a fast learner who is easily trained and adaptable to whatever is presented, she'll find an employer who wants to take her on.

[FLA]

In general, I think we should be encouraging our children to go to state schools or even 2 yrs of community college first.

In my city, it costs the same in tuition to attend a very good State U as it does the community college. DD started with this plan (HS Junior) and then planned on a "good" grad school, take out the loans then. But now that she has visited top New England private schools, she is changing her tune. Big mistake, I don't think the enormity of student loans has hit her hard enough yet. She's making just above minimum wage now. At some point I will show her that if she is making minimum wage after college, paying back loans will force her to move back home and greatly affect her entire life. Of course, she believes she will go to Wharton for grad school and will be making the big bucks upon graduation.

[disneysteve]

In my city, it costs the same in tuition to attend a very good State U as it does the community college.

That's a really odd situation. Why would anyone choose community over the state school (assuming of course that they can get accepted to the state school)?