Saving Money And Paying Bills Are "Conservative Values"?

[Gailete]

I presume spelling wasn't a part of your college curriculum.

Spelling has always been tough for me as I am dyslexic. I find great joy in the fact that I can read more and faster than most people. I may not be able to spell the words I see but I know what they mean and I understand them.

[Gailete]

Did you get the job???

Actually not the first one I applied for but someone else heard about me and had me come out again and I got that job. Clerk Typist at a college for $5K/year! Still better than Arby's.

[Petunia 100]

I was just having a similar conversation this morning that sadly got cut off when the nurse called me in for my appointment: self-discipline -- not having children before you're married, etc -- vs. getting comfortable on the government dole, and not marrying because then the woman would lose all her benefits.



It surely is a left-wing uber-compassionate money-grows-on-trees-and-the-1% the world owes me a life mentality, which you certainly wouldn't have seen from Richard "my wife wears a respectable Republican cloth coat" Nixon, but would see in hippy-dippy Bernie Sanders supporters.

But in 2016, how many Republican women go to mega-churches in a respectable cloth coat?

Don't we want higher education to be possible for ALL, even those without the means (read: family) to pay for their educations up front?

Getting into debt up past your eyebrows for an education is a CHOICE, not a foregone conclusion. Perhaps a better policy (than not having student loans available at all) is to limit how much may be borrowed.

[disneysteve]

Don't we want higher education to be possible for ALL, even those without the means (read: family) to pay for their educations up front?

Higher education is possible for all now. With community colleges, state schools, work-study programs, etc. Someone who has the academic ability can find an affordable way to get a degree.

[TexasHusker]

Spelling has always been tough for me as I am dyslexic. I find great joy in the fact that I can read more and faster than most people. I may not be able to spell the words I see but I know what they mean and I understand them.

I was just giving you a hard time. I couldn't resist.

[TexasHusker]

Higher education is possible for all now. With community colleges, state schools, work-study programs, etc. Someone who has the academic ability can find an affordable way to get a degree.

There are pluses and minuses to that.

We have four major high schools in our town. Two of them are considered middle/upper middle income. The other two are lower income. If a student graduates from the lower income schools with a certain grade point average (and it's not that high), they get their full tuition paid for at two local colleges/universities. That's really neat, except I have to foot the bill for my kid's tuition since we are upper middle income. That seems rather discriminatory to me, given the fact that I am already paying ENORMOUS local property taxes to support our community college, and to a lessor extent, our state universities.

Additionally, there is such an emphasis on attending college, that high schools often never think encourage kids to learn a trade - plumbing, electrical, welding, sheet metal, carpentry, cosmetology, etc. Almost as if it is frowned upon to do anything but go to college. That is a disgrace.

There a lot of tradespeople that love their work and are able to support a family and do just fine.

We need to rethink this idea that college is some sort of panacea with a big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's not a fit for everyone.

[Nutria]

Don't we want higher education to be possible for ALL, even those without the means (read: family) to pay for their educations up front?

Getting into debt up past your eyebrows for an education is a CHOICE, not a foregone conclusion. Perhaps a better policy (than not having student loans available at all) is to limit how much may be borrowed.

A better policy would be to limit how much college administators can spend on replacing functional but plain dormitories with fur-lined suites and solid gold private bathrooms.

SET MODE=RANT

How the hell did I survive for two years on a thin mattress over a metal frame in a room the size of a prison cell, having to use large communal showers and sinks and lavatories?

(My father stayed in the same dorm as me, but when it was first built, so no "the previous generation had it worse than you" ripostes allowed.)

SET MODE=NORANT

[pflyers85]

Don't we want higher education to be possible for ALL, even those without the means (read: family) to pay for their educations up front?

Getting into debt up past your eyebrows for an education is a CHOICE, not a foregone conclusion. Perhaps a better policy (than not having student loans available at all) is to limit how much may be borrowed.

I personally don't want higher education for all. I think peoples intentions are in the right place wanting everyone to go to college and succeed but the reality is many people do not possess the aptitude or higher level critical thinking skills required to be successful in a college environment. Do I want someone who does possess these traits to get into college even though they are disadvantaged? Of course, but they likely are going to qualify for income based assistance and scholarship opportunities.

For those who aren't college material I'm not suggesting that they just stop their learning or training after securing a HS diploma or GED. There are other opportunities out there to get the requisite training for honest, decent paying vocations/trades. College is not for everyone and that is okay.

[pflyers85]

There are pluses and minuses to that.

We have four major high schools in our town. Two of them are considered middle/upper middle income. The other two are lower income. If a student graduates from the lower income schools with a certain grade point average (and it's not that high), they get their full tuition paid for at two local colleges/universities. That's really neat, except I have to foot the bill for my kid's tuition since we are upper middle income. That seems rather discriminatory to me, given the fact that I am already paying ENORMOUS local property taxes to support our community college, and to a lessor extent, our state universities.

Additionally, there is such an emphasis on attending college, that high schools often never think encourage kids to learn a trade - plumbing, electrical, welding, sheet metal, carpentry, cosmetology, etc. Almost as if it is frowned upon to do anything but go to college. That is a disgrace.

There a lot of tradespeople that love their work and are able to support a family and do just fine.

We need to rethink this idea that college is some sort of panacea with a big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's not a fit for everyone

Couldn't agree more. What bothers me about many high school guidance counselors is that they only push trades and vocational schools to the kids that take Votech in HS. There are plenty of kids that take a college preparatory curriculum in HS that have less than stellar grades. How about actually guiding them to reconsider college as a first option? "Oh just start at a community college and get your grades up to transfer to a 4 year school" they might say. For some borderline students that may be decent advice but there are many others where its plain as day that they would be better suited in a non-traditional hands on learning environment.

I don't want to put all the blame on the guidance counselors because some of it has to do with the parents as well. God forbid a guidance counselor suggest an alternative path and the parents will be beating down the doors to scold the counselor for crushing their son/daughter's self esteem. Parents many times are the ones that foist college upon their unqualified kids simply out of ego and status. They don't want to be the one in their social circle whose kid is not attending college. Nevermind it takes their kid 6 years to graduate with some Mickey Mouse undergrad degree and the kid will end up as a barista at Starbucks anyway.

[Gailete]

A better policy would be to limit how much college administators can spend on replacing functional but plain dormitories with fur-lined suites and solid gold private bathrooms.

SET MODE=RANT

How the hell did I survive for two years on a thin mattress over a metal frame in a room the size of a prison cell, having to use large communal showers and sinks and lavatories?

(My father stayed in the same dorm as me, but when it was first built, so no "the previous generation had it worse than you" ripostes allowed.)

SET MODE=NORANT

I went to the same college as my father had. At the time my parents had three of us and before they left there were 4 of us. They lived in 2 rooms, no kitchen, but they did as I did. If you set your cold food in the windowsill it was as good as a fridge during most of the college terms. I lived in the one and only girls dorm that was available. Shared with another girl. Other than our desk chairs everything was built in. My college had an enormous building program while I was there and in 4 years the student body also doubled. I then got to live in the new dorms when built. But still no one had stereos, TVs, coffee maker's, microwaves, fridges, etc. Some girls had electric kettles and popcorn makers. But we lived in the dorms and ate whatever the cafeteria made that day - no meal options whatsoever. The closest we got to choosing something different to eat was breakfast when we had a couple cereals to choose from.

VERY different than what kids get and expect these days. I saw the living room of a friends daughter before she went off to college, and my dorm room I doubt couldn't even have room for it all. Every year our local news does a news report on kids getting heading for college and how much it costs and I can understand why kids leave college with such high loans. They buy and take somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 worth of new stuff to go with them. I took an old blanket, my quilt that I had just finished making (my first, started in 8th grade), a desk lamp, a teddy bear, a couple of towels and washclothes, and a portable typewriter and clothes. Came home with the same stuff plus a box of books.

[disneysteve]

Don't we want higher education to be possible for ALL?

Higher education is possible for all now.

There are pluses and minuses to that.

I personally don't want higher education for all.

I want to clarify something here. Petunia didn't say everyone should go to college. She said higher education should be "possible for all". That's what I was agreeing with. I think higher education is already available to everyone.

Does that mean I think everyone should go to college? Absolutely not! College isn't for everyone, nor should it be. That wasn't the point I (or Petunia I think) I was trying to make.

[Gailete]

I personally don't want higher education for all. I think peoples intentions are in the right place wanting everyone to go to college and succeed but the reality is many people do not possess the aptitude or higher level critical thinking skills required to be successful in a college environment.

I guess I am in the camp of I don't feel that college should be available for all. If a kid hasn't applied themselves when they got free education (elementary>High School) and so can't yet read and write sufficiently well, I don't think colleges should have to have remedial classes so that they can cope with college. Many kids aren't even interested in going to college. My youngest went to a local school where he got his associates degree and almost has that loan(s) paid off. But he trained for a trade of medical transcription and medical records and in about 2 weeks he starts full time where he has been working part time for several years. It has been a long road for him to get this far. Other son, even though giftsed took some college classes, took out enormous loans and is still paying them off but part of that was due to life circumstance for him at the time. Things have changed and I doubt that he would have done that now. He has no degree but is self-employed, neither job requiring a degree. I do think college was in general boring for him for the classes he did take as he is one to get the concept the first time he reads and hears it.

Nevertheless, I think everyone should being learning throughout their life, no matter if they go to college or not. But rather than read a book or study something they want to plunk down in front of the TV/video game and let their brains turn to mush. For years before I had my small on line business I read everything possible in starting and running your own business so that when the opportunity came along I was ready. I read and study as much as I can for the niche I sell in. When something catches my eye I try to learn all I can. Hubby is the same way. He has been watching Youtube videos on the periodic table as well as studying up on aneurysms even though he isn't a doctor. He just likes to learn about things that interest him. For learning more without a formal situation to do it in, we are living in a wonderful age where so much is available on line and free for the taking.

[disneysteve]

I guess I am in the camp of I don't feel that college should be available for all.

People seem to be confusing "available" with "required".

Available means it's there if you want it and qualify to get in. It doesn't mean everyone needs to go (or should).

[Petunia 100]

Higher education is possible for all now. With community colleges, state schools, work-study programs, etc. Someone who has the academic ability can find an affordable way to get a degree.

Yes. And if everyone had to pay for college 100% up front, would it still be possible for all? I maintain that it would not.

[Petunia 100]

I personally don't want higher education for all. I think peoples intentions are in the right place wanting everyone to go to college and succeed but the reality is many people do not possess the aptitude or higher level critical thinking skills required to be successful in a college environment. Do I want someone who does possess these traits to get into college even though they are disadvantaged? Of course, but they likely are going to qualify for income based assistance and scholarship opportunities.

For those who aren't college material I'm not suggesting that they just stop their learning or training after securing a HS diploma or GED. There are other opportunities out there to get the requisite training for honest, decent paying vocations/trades. College is not for everyone and that is okay.

I'm not suggesting everyone should go to college. However, I am glad it is possible for anyone who wants it. I'm glad to live in a place where ANYONE who wants to attend college CAN. There are plenty of places where that is not true.