Smoking the budget away

[ttt.]

reply

Hello Mitch:
I wanted to reply to your latest post.
You said that cartons of cigarettes are about $50 a piece and that your daughter smokes menthols. What brand do your wife and daughter smoke?
You said that your wife smokes at least 4 packs a day. How often does she smoke 5 or 6 packs in a single day?
You indicated that your daughter ahs been smoking at least 2 packs a day, 3 on weekends and 3 over Christmas break. Is her smoking steadily increasing?
And if so, is your wife encouraging her to do so?
You recently had to pay out of lot of money for medical bills on your daughter and said she had bronchitis and walking pneumonia. Has she recovered?
Does she have asthma?
Has your wife had any complications from smoking yet and how is that affecting your budget?
Is your wife still working part time?

[JBL]

I'm a recovering smoker myself. A few things:

-"cutting back" or "cutting down" will never work.
-Smoking does not help you manage stress; it's an addiction. Approximately 15 minutes after smoking, you start to feel withdrawl symptoms, which feel like stress. Smoking alleviates these withdrawl symptoms; BUT, you would not feel them in the first place if you didn't smoke.
-Smokers need to decide to quit for themselves. And know that once the initial 72 hours of no nicotine intake have passed you need to remember that from that point forward it's all in your head, as the physical withdrawl has ended by that time.
-Quitting smoking is a choice you make on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour, craving-to-craving basis. It gets easier to build a habit of choosing to not smoke the more you do it. This does not mean that you are free from smoking urges, but you are familiar with resisting them and choosing to remain smoke-free.

For the OP, I don't know really how to advise you. This is your wife's addiction and only she can truly help herself. Interventions and ultimatums are likely to be totally ineffective. Plus, the more pressure she feels about this the harder it might be for her to feel strong enough to quit. I definitely recommend helping her find full time employment (usually doesn't allow smoking plus builds her self esteem and connection to other people) and expressing your willingness to support her if she decides to quit.

She may never decide to quit. That's on her.

Josh

[UnknownXV]

That is a very intense situation to be in. I'm not entirely sure what to say either, it's rare to have a problem I can't even see one solution for. You tried to cover all of the obvious ones, of course getting her to quit would be the ideal fix but that's so much easier said than done isn't it?

Perhaps confront her about the rising cost of cigarettes, make the truth very direct in her face, especially about her credit card. If she realizes the financial toll she has on you, maybe she will make more effort to cut back on them?

Although I will say, since you have a kid, it's very dangerous. I grew up in a smoker's house, and my mom was smoking while she was pregnant with me. I turned out okay, save for being quite small and short for a guy. Our doctor said smoking could have contributed to stunted growth (both my parents are a bit above average in height).

As well as development, second hand smoke is just terrible in general. I'm currently living with 4 roommates who all smoke now, and I'm going to be leaving this summer. It can't come soon enough. I feel like I can't even breathe in my own house.

[Mitch71]

I'm slowly coming around to try to accept the fact that both my wife and teenage daughter are now chainsmokers and there is nothing I can do about it.

Sarah, you are right. I've never said that I would only "love you if you stop smoking". I love them no matter how much they smoke and I always will. Its why I can't ever leave them.

Hello Mitch:
I wanted to reply to your latest post.
You said that cartons of cigarettes are about $50 a piece and that your daughter smokes menthols. What brand do your wife and daughter smoke?
You said that your wife smokes at least 4 packs a day. How often does she smoke 5 or 6 packs in a single day?
You indicated that your daughter ahs been smoking at least 2 packs a day, 3 on weekends and 3 over Christmas break. Is her smoking steadily increasing?
And if so, is your wife encouraging her to do so?
You recently had to pay out of lot of money for medical bills on your daughter and said she had bronchitis and walking pneumonia. Has she recovered?
Does she have asthma?
Has your wife had any complications from smoking yet and how is that affecting your budget?
Is your wife still working part time?

ttt, In response to your questions:
"You said that cartons of cigarettes are about $50 a piece and that your daughter smokes menthols. What brand do your wife and daughter smoke?"
- My daughter has been smoking Camel Crush menthols lately, although she's used to smoke the Camel No 9's. I know she's tried smoking the Marlboro's that my wife smokes too. They usually buy their cigarettes at a discount tobacco store to get deals.

"You said that your wife smokes at least 4 packs a day. How often does she smoke 5 or 6 packs in a single day?"

- Ive seen her smoke nearly 5 packs a day when she was off on the weekend, so I guess Ive seen that on a saturday or sunday maybe once every other week or so. About four weeks ago on saturday for some reason she was particularly neurotic and she actually got to where she was trying to finish smoking 6 whole packs of cigarettes in a day. Not sure what possessed her to do that exactly, maybe just trying for a new record or something, but then again I never understand the need to smoke anywhere near as much as she does anyways.

"You indicated that your daughter ahs been smoking at least 2 packs a day, 3 on weekends and 3 over Christmas break. Is her smoking steadily increasing?"
- Yeah, I think it is. Some weekdays days she may get up to 2 and a half packs a day, but other week days its only about 2 packs a day. I don't know for sure if she's ever smoked more than 3 packs in a day on the weekend, but it wouldnt suprise me if she'd smoked 3 and a half packs in a day before. I imagine over the summer she will get to where she is smoking at least 3 packs a day.

"And if so, is your wife encouraging her to do so?"
- Im almost absolutely positive that my wife is encouraging her to smoke more, although I have a hard time understanding why, My wife has been buying my daughter 2 cartons a week. When she does this, she tells her that two cartons a week (roughly twenty packs of cigarettes a week) should tide her over until summer, when she may need more. I think my wife likes to think that shes not alone in her addiction and enjoys having someone else immerse themselves in it like she has.


"You recently had to pay out of lot of money for medical bills on your daughter and said she had bronchitis and walking pneumonia. Has she recovered?"
- She has mostly recovered, but she is still very wheezy and short of breath often times. I don't know if she is just playing off her mother's bad habits or what, or become a hypochondriac, but even though I know she is frail sometimes I can't tell if she is playing up how bad her breathing is because she likes the attention she gets from it.

"Does she have asthma?"
- Yes she also has asthma and has a hefty cough for such a small framed girl. She used to carry around an inhaler too, but she seems to forget it everywhere now.

"Has your wife had any complications from smoking yet and how is that affecting your budget?"
- Yes, my wife is sick practically all of the time. She has had a nasty never ending cold or something that has caused her to hack and cough and generally look and sound miserable and pathetic. I've looked up her symptoms online and am paranoid that she could already be having early stage lung cancer but she refuses to go get an MRI done. She had an xray done of her lungs several years ago and they found nothing then, so she says she doesn't need to go back yet. Still, Im worried that when the time comes she will just keep on smoking and coughing and hacking and not go get the medical care she needs until it is too late. So cost wise, she has missed a few days of work, but since she practically refuses to go to the doctor, we haven't been snowed under by medical bills for it yet.

"Is your wife still working part time?"
Yes she is still working part time now. She had an offer of full time employment at her prior job, but didn't want to take it, presumably because she just really didn't want to have to work that much. We are able to pay the bills on what we have for now, but just barely.

Since I've all but accepted the fact that my teenage daughter and wife are both chainsmoker who have no remorse for spending all my money on cigarettes, no matter how destructive it is to their health or my sanity; I suppose I should start looking for ways to make their cigarettes cost less.

amarowsky, I'm seriously considering suggestion of getting cigarette rolling machines or papers. I think someone else has suggested that before too. If 10 packs was only $10, I could potentially cut my spending by 80%...of course, that seems to have a high risk of just further increasing the amount my wife and daughter smoked. In particular, Im sure my daughter would only smoke more if I made it cheaper and easier for her to get the cigarettes. Other than that, and the fact that it would be seen as conveying legitimacy to the idea that Im alright with them chain-smoking, maybe getting a cigarette rolling machine is in fact the answer to the budgetary limits I've found myself running into lately.

[JoeP]

Since I've all but accepted the fact that my teenage daughter and wife are both chainsmoker who have no remorse for spending all my money on cigarettes, no matter how destructive it is to their health or my sanity; I suppose I should start looking for ways to make their cigarettes cost less.

amarowsky, I'm seriously considering suggestion of getting cigarette rolling machines or papers. I think someone else has suggested that before too. If 10 packs was only $10, I could potentially cut my spending by 80%...of course, that seems to have a high risk of just further increasing the amount my wife and daughter smoked. In particular, Im sure my daughter would only smoke more if I made it cheaper and easier for her to get the cigarettes. Other than that, and the fact that it would be seen as conveying legitimacy to the idea that Im alright with them chain-smoking, maybe getting a cigarette rolling machine is in fact the answer to the budgetary limits I've found myself running into lately.

Please: seriously consider getting an attorney. There is absolutely nothing positive from what they are doing to themselves and to you, and buying a Cigarette Rolling Machine would be akin to giving a raging alcoholic a homebrewing kit.

[BMEPhDinCO]

This thread is crazy to me! At 2-3 packs per day, your daughter is smoking around 2 cigarettes per hour... if she's in school (and presumably can't smoke then), that makes it even more... 16 hours per day with 40 (2 packs) per day = 2.5 per hour. Let's say she actually does sleep 7 hours... that means she has 9 waking, non-school hours to smoke 40 cigarettes... 4.4 per hour! That's one every 15 minutes (less, really). (Maybe this will be of interest to you: http://www.cancer.org/healthy/toolsa...tte-calculator - according to the calculator, at 4 packs A DAY, your wife has almost 30,000 cigarettes a year!!)

It sounds to me like you aren't a fan of the "tough love" situation, so here's my thoughts..

1. Ban smoking inside, period. You see it, you'll grab it and put it out.

2. They want to smoke, they pay for it... your money goes to the household, theirs goes to smoking, plus they have to give you 10% of their income for smoking - yes, a tax on them. Your daughter can babysit (maybe, I'd doubt anyone would let her around their child, but you never know), she can get a paper route too, she can mow lawns, etc. Or your wife can cover them both. That money goes straight into a "health care" fund.

3. YOU don't spend money on them for this - no rolling machines, no paper, etc.

4. They need to keep their problem private - no packs lying about and if you find one, you trash it. This is NOT a healthy thing and it doesn't deserve respect.

5. You need to get counseling for yourself - once you are strong enough, you need to leave. Letting your teenage daughter smoke a new cigarette EVERY 15 minutes is ridiculous and bad parenting.

[Baby_nurse]

I know this is an old thread, but holy cow.

My dad would have whooped my backside if I had been a 12 year old smoker. Just sayin...

[UnknownXV]

Your wife can do what she wants, but it's morally obscene & criminal to encourage your own 12 year old daughter to smoke.

[Mitch71]

BMEPhDinCO, I hear what you are saying. Having a nearly 14 year old daughter who won't stop smoking no matter how hard I try to convince her or threaten to ground her, and one whos pretty much encouraged to smoke by my chainsmoking wife has not been easy. In fact, it has very much strained both my marriage and my relationship with my daughter, but the options seem to grow more and more limited over time.

Believe me, you don't need to tell me how messed up this whole situation has become in the past two years or so. My wife has been a smoker for a long time, although she tried to cut back for a while, its fair to acknowledge that she was a smoker even back when we started dating, and apparently she started as a young teenager herself and has never really got over her addiction. I understand that and accept the fact that shes not willing to try to get over her cigarette addiction, just like I have often struggled with my weight and in the past I struggled with a drinking problem, both of which adversely effect my health. The fact that my wife has held my past drinking problems, including a DWI from several years ago, over my head in saying that she didn't leave me then, so I have no right to imply to threaten to leave her now, only makes things more complicated. Deep down I do love my wife, scars and all, and of course I love my daughter, and I hardly feel like initiating an absolutist confrontation that may well lead to divorce and financial ruin, with me hardly ever getting to see my daughter, that just doesn't seem to be the way to resolve things.

You're right that its frightening to think that my daughter is smoking an average of 4 cigarettes an hour most days when shes not in school, and from what I've seen thats probably about right. She just stays glued to the tv or computer or iphone, cigarette in hand, just like her mother. In fact, not only has Her mother has been the same way, often times smoking 5 or even 6 cigarettes in an hour throughout the afternoon or evening, while watching tv or do whatever. Its like a cultural time warp for me, but its frustrating because anytime I raise an issue with it I get shot down and criticised by my wife for being overly harsh


BMEPhDinCO, alot of what you said sounds good, but is harder to do for me for various reasons:

1) So "banning smoking indoors" is alot harder to do than it sounds, not only because my wife constantly smokes indoors and says she shouldnt have to go outside to smoke in the rain or cold or heat or whatever, and that its 1/2 her house to so why shouldn't she be entitled to do what she wants with it. But also its hard to enforce a "ban on indoor smoking" when Im never home because it seems like I work all the time. But the parenting battle is largely about time and influence, and for my part I end up having to work so many late hours and weekends to keep our bills paid and ourselves afloat financially, that often times my daughter is either home alone in the afternoons after school or early evenings when no one is around to stop her from smoking as much as she wants, or she is with her mother who pretty much smokes everywhere in the house and doesn't life a finger to stop her from smoking.

2-3) They are the one's paying for their nasty little habit with their own money, not mine/family. Ive seen to that. I've never once bought my daughter cigarettes and she knows how much I disapprove of her constant smoking, but doesnt seem to care because my wife is so defensive of her. Moreover, I havent yet bought my wife a cigarette rolling machine, although from a strictly financial point of view, buying a cigarette rolling machine for my wife probably would be a good way to save hundreds of dollars a month, but the other poster is right, buying a rolling machine is like buying an alcoholic a home brewing kit. I should know, I used to be an alcoholic with a home brewing kit.

4) Keeping it private to the point of trashing every pack I see is a hard line to take, when I know that ultimately it would just infuriate my wife, since she buys her own cigarettes, she would take great offense if I started throwing away her cigarettes when I see them. I wouldn't put it past her to start throwing away things of mine that she sees in retaliation. Thats how fights start, and Im so very tired of fighting this, I really don't know that its worth it.

5) You are right that I probably need to get counseling. Ive been to counseling for alcohol abuse before, but that was several years ago and Ive stopped going to AA since then. You're right that its messed up that my nearly 14 year old daughter is smokign so much, and that my wife is enabling it, but when Im working all the time, its so hard to stop them from doing whatever it is they do when Im not around. Either way, maybe counseling could help me find a solution that won't result in backlash that undermines my marriage, or at least maybe counseling could help me find peace and acceptance of the sitatuion.

[bjl584]

BMEPhDinCO, I hear what you are saying. Having a nearly 14 year old daughter who won't stop smoking no matter how hard I try to convince her or threaten to ground her, and one whos pretty much encouraged to smoke by my chainsmoking wife has not been easy. In fact, it has very much strained both my marriage and my relationship with my daughter, but the options seem to grow more and more limited over time.

Believe me, you don't need to tell me how messed up this whole situation has become in the past two years or so. My wife has been a smoker for a long time, although she tried to cut back for a while, its fair to acknowledge that she was a smoker even back when we started dating, and apparently she started as a young teenager herself and has never really got over her addiction. I understand that and accept the fact that shes not willing to try to get over her cigarette addiction, just like I have often struggled with my weight and in the past I struggled with a drinking problem, both of which adversely effect my health. The fact that my wife has held my past drinking problems, including a DWI from several years ago, over my head in saying that she didn't leave me then, so I have no right to imply to threaten to leave her now, only makes things more complicated. Deep down I do love my wife, scars and all, and of course I love my daughter, and I hardly feel like initiating an absolutist confrontation that may well lead to divorce and financial ruin, with me hardly ever getting to see my daughter, that just doesn't seem to be the way to resolve things.

You're right that its frightening to think that my daughter is smoking an average of 4 cigarettes an hour most days when shes not in school, and from what I've seen thats probably about right. She just stays glued to the tv or computer or iphone, cigarette in hand, just like her mother. In fact, not only has Her mother has been the same way, often times smoking 5 or even 6 cigarettes in an hour throughout the afternoon or evening, while watching tv or do whatever. Its like a cultural time warp for me, but its frustrating because anytime I raise an issue with it I get shot down and criticised by my wife for being overly harsh


BMEPhDinCO, alot of what you said sounds good, but is harder to do for me for various reasons:

1) So "banning smoking indoors" is alot harder to do than it sounds, not only because my wife constantly smokes indoors and says she shouldnt have to go outside to smoke in the rain or cold or heat or whatever, and that its 1/2 her house to so why shouldn't she be entitled to do what she wants with it. But also its hard to enforce a "ban on indoor smoking" when Im never home because it seems like I work all the time. But the parenting battle is largely about time and influence, and for my part I end up having to work so many late hours and weekends to keep our bills paid and ourselves afloat financially, that often times my daughter is either home alone in the afternoons after school or early evenings when no one is around to stop her from smoking as much as she wants, or she is with her mother who pretty much smokes everywhere in the house and doesn't life a finger to stop her from smoking.

2-3) They are the one's paying for their nasty little habit with their own money, not mine/family. Ive seen to that. I've never once bought my daughter cigarettes and she knows how much I disapprove of her constant smoking, but doesnt seem to care because my wife is so defensive of her. Moreover, I havent yet bought my wife a cigarette rolling machine, although from a strictly financial point of view, buying a cigarette rolling machine for my wife probably would be a good way to save hundreds of dollars a month, but the other poster is right, buying a rolling machine is like buying an alcoholic a home brewing kit. I should know, I used to be an alcoholic with a home brewing kit.

4) Keeping it private to the point of trashing every pack I see is a hard line to take, when I know that ultimately it would just infuriate my wife, since she buys her own cigarettes, she would take great offense if I started throwing away her cigarettes when I see them. I wouldn't put it past her to start throwing away things of mine that she sees in retaliation. Thats how fights start, and Im so very tired of fighting this, I really don't know that its worth it.

5) You are right that I probably need to get counseling. Ive been to counseling for alcohol abuse before, but that was several years ago and Ive stopped going to AA since then. You're right that its messed up that my nearly 14 year old daughter is smokign so much, and that my wife is enabling it, but when Im working all the time, its so hard to stop them from doing whatever it is they do when Im not around. Either way, maybe counseling could help me find a solution that won't result in backlash that undermines my marriage, or at least maybe counseling could help me find peace and acceptance of the sitatuion.

You started this thread just over 2 years ago. From what you just posted this morning, it appears that you have made zero progress with this situation. You have accomplished nothing.

I don't mean to be harsh, but you really need to go something. This situation obviously isn't going to fix itself or go away.

[bennkar]

I'll second bjl584's comment. Kudos for coming back and updating the situation, but people gave you good advice here and you mostly ignored it. That's your perogitive, but in this situation you either need to grow some, or you will be walked over forever. I speak from experience - I was forced to make hard choices in my personal relationships, and I did. It wasn't pleasant at the time (to put it mildly), but they were the right choices. My life is so much better now, I can't imagine how anyone would think appeasing dysfunctional people is a good idea.

You look like you've made your choice. Good luck living the results, it doesn't sound pretty.

[ttt.]

Thanks for your reply Mitch. I did a have a few more follow up qeustions.

You said your wife buys your daughter 2 cartons of cigarettes per week. Does yoru daughter finish the 2 cartons a week?
If so, I think she may be smoking more than you indicated, but I am not sure. If she was smoking 2 1/2 packs on week days and 3 1/2 on the weekend, that would total out to 19 1/2 packs a week, and the last 10 cigarettes could be spread out over the 7 days. Is it possible your daughter is smoking that much?
Do you think your daughter is increasing on purpose, or just indulging her addiction and/or giving into your wife's encouragement?
Do you know what your wife does to encourage your daughter to smoke more?
Do you think once your daughter gets up to at least 3 packs a day during the summer, that she will remain there permanantly?
Do you thinkyour wife will encourage your daughter's smoking up to 4+ packs a day like her own during the summer?
How bad is your daughter's asthma?
How often does she get asthma attacks?
Does she do anything for it other than use her inhaler (which you said is often lost anyway) like a nebulizer?
What kind of attention does your daughter get because of her asthma?
Do you think its possible she is smoking more purposely to make her asthma worse so that she will get more attention?
Is your wife making an effort to increase her own smoking, or only your daughter's smoking?
You said your daughter smokes about 4 cigarettes per hour and your wife 5-6. How often do you see them smoke one cigarette after another with no break in between?
Have you made any further exploration of buying a rolling machine,whcih can save you money?
If you did, would you be the one rolling them?
If have has some expereicen with rolling them before and rolling 6-8 packs (120-160 cigarettes) per day will take a lot of time. I am not sure that you have the time. Based on your wife's refusal to get a new job (although that could be due to smoking restriction, since you said she can smoke on her paper route), her laziness that you have implied, the fact that many of her behaviors are translating over to your daughter, and the fact that theya re spendingonly their own money on cigarettes, maybe mean they are unwilling to roll their own. Adifference in taste/feel may also be a factor. I encourage you keep this in mind when suggesting them using one, if you have no already made the suggestion.

[amarowsky]

Almost three months smoke free now. My inspiration was a little stronger and more unorthodox though, I found out early Februarymmy mom had been diagnosed stage 3 pancreatic cancer and I promised her I will never smoke cigarettes again if she fights as hard as she can. And were both doing pretty well :-)

[amarowsky]

Almost three months smoke free now. My inspiration was a little stronger and more unorthodox though, I found out early Februarymmy mom had been diagnosed stage 3 pancreatic cancer and I promised her I will never smoke cigarettes again if she fights as hard as she can. And were both doing pretty well :-)

[snafu]

Mitch 71 thanks for the update from 2011. I'm sad that your daughter and wife don't love themselves enough to quit smoking. Since you still have some control with finances, I suggest that you not provide wife or daughter with CC or money for cigarettes. It's a lot of work but take control of finances, buy groceries and close joint accounts. No point in buying new clothes, they'll just stink in a couple of hours! I'd ask the local Cancer office for posters of smoked out lungs and Cancer destroyed internal organs. A pictures speaks a thousand words!