Smoking the budget away

[couchrobt]

Bad habits are very hard to break especially if that one person whose infected is family. It is just difficult to adjust, to deal, to accept.

[David Mett]

We consider smoking very ordinary expense but when we think and calculate on the end of the month then we realize that we have wasted a huge amount in smoke.If you quit smoking only then you can easily save money for your vehicles fuel.

[mcfroggin]

Bad habits are very hard to break especially if that one person whose infected is family. It is just difficult to adjust, to deal, to accept.

Did you know how right you are? The #1 way to get a child to quit is for the parents to quit.

[Confetti]

Have either of you considered e-cigarettes? I was a long-time, very heavy smoker, and I tried them about 3 years ago, and gradually got off of the real things. Now, I don't have a smelly house or car, and it really bothers me to smell smoke. It's cheaper and much better for the smoker and everyone around them. I have both a battery operated model and one connected to a USB. Since there is no combustion, no harmful chemicals are being released, but you still get the behavioral aspect covered - - the hand-to-mouth habit, and the nicotine is delivered through the liquid that heats up by battery. The patch or pill can't replace the behavioral part of the habit.

Don't get one from the mall or any sort of advertisement promising big things. Look up e-cig forum, which has a vast amount of information about the different models and answers to any questions you might have. I get supplies from a very affordable website, but there are several good ones out there. A little research is all you need. Hopefully it will be an attractive alternative.

[jerrycates]

It may sound harsh but it is best to deliberately hide or get their cigarette sticks than let them keep it. I do not smoke however, my father does. I know they think they cannot quit but in real they can. Hard but can.

[landon.bruno]

Smoking is a big challenge to quit. But you can quit it. I had to struggle for 2 years to quit it.

[wincrasher]

Wow. I feel so bad for you. My advice is harsh, but here goes.

You need to stop being a doormat right now. Your relationship with your wife is over. She is a drug addict and you must accept it.

You need to decide if you want to save your daughter. There is only one way to do that. You need to separate and take her with you. You have a good case for custody.

Good luck to you.

[Scanner]

Hard to give suggestions here. . .but guilt can be a powerful motivator.

Sell something of value of your daughter's and/or yours and give her the money and tell her that the object of sentiment was important to you, but you didn't want to see her in debt from her smoking habit so here it is. . .I had to sell Little Susies rare doll from her grandmother. . .but here's $1000.00 for your smokes.

Let her know the Consumer Debt she is accumulating is far worse than owning anything and she is directly causing the liquidation of objects of sentiment.

The only problem with addicts is:

A. It will force them to straighten up, when they see a loved one impacted

or

B. They'll get depressed and smoke more. (alcoholics notoriously do this)

I will offer you this hope though. . .my mom "crutch smoked" about 1-1.5 packs/day from age 15 to age 60. I thought she'd never quit and it would take her to her grave. She went on Chantix and licked it and has been smoke-free for 5 years now. I was so surprised because unlike me, she is a type who tends to go to the MD for a "Pill for this. . .pill for that." type of mentality. But in all fairness, it worked.

So, there is hope. Chantix, acupuncture, hypnosis, herbs. . .but she has got to want help, accept help, and use help.

[Scanner]

Just read the part (sorry - I shouldn't have skimmed) with the daughter joining in on hte smoking.

If your wife is giving tacit approval or even going as far as supplying her, let me tell you this. . .money or no money. . .consumer debt or no consumer debt. . .what she is doing is against the law - "Corrupting a minor" or perhaps "Supplying cigarettes to a minor", which I believe is a misdeameanor in most states (any lawyers or police officers can give input here).

While at first I thought divorce may be too much of a trigger to pull, I dont know. . .when children's well being is being threatened with an illegal substance. . .well, you are in an interesting ethical dilemma, my friend. . .one that goes beyond budgetary concerns.

I think you are completely valid in your idea taht she is "enlisting help" in this battle of numbers. . .2 against 1 now, eh?. . .she's got a new smoking buddy. . .little Susie. . .maybe you need the help of the law on your side and file a complaint with social services.

Depends on how much you want to or able to go to war on this. I would understand either way.

If you live near me, bring her into my office and I can perhaps make a call under the Good Samaritan Act of an adult corrupting a minor (doctors are exempt in child abuse reports).

I'll do it.

I've gotten too old to give a crap what happens to me socially or to my business when I do these things.

I'll do it in a NJ minute. Doubt anything would happen though but maybe just an investigation would scare the Bajeezus out of her.

It's one thing if she wants to smoke her health away; it's another if your daughter does.

[nick__45]

It is a felony offense in my state to supply a minor with control substance on a regular basis while such minor is under your care.

[couchrobt]

This smoking is bad to state a fact. To all people of all genders and all ages. It wastes family money if you belong to a household. Best if you create a conscious spending program you can expend cash freely without having feeling bad about this or worrying in case you have enough.

[florent]

Smoking it all away

She needs to be responsible for her actions. She won't change until she gets in enough pain to motivate her. Unforunate. People do things out of INSPIRATION or DESPERATION. Long term health problems are expensive. I wouldn't enable her anymore. Tough love.

[DebbieL]

I would divorce her in a heartbeat. Seriously, it doesn't sound like there is anything of value in your relationship anyways. I felt miserable just reading about it.

She is a CHILD ABUSER encouraging your 12 year old!!! to smoke (and probably providing them). I would be horrified.

Unfortunately, even if you do divorce (and I would - I'm feeling queesy just imagining the air in your home, car, etc), she will still have access to your daughter. She will continue to encourage her in smoking, and set a horrible example. I would be heartsick if my child was smoking

[Mitch71]

I appreciate everyones thoughts and ideas, but dealing with my chain-smoking wife and all the costs associated with that seems to almost pale in comparison to the reality that my daughter seems to be becoming a smoker no matter how hard I try to stop it.

While I wouldnt want to say that Ive basically given up on trying to get my wife to quit or at least cut back on her incessant smoking; because honestly, anything less than her three packs a day would be an improvement in my book, but at least she is buying her own cigarettes and not spending my dime on them anymore. In theory that should "resolve" my financial gripe about her chain smoking - but I feel like I need to deal with this issue with my daughter starting smoking first.

Things have been moving so fast lately, its hard to keep them in focus; I cant believe it was only a few weeks ago after the end-of-school party when my 12 year old daughter finally admitted that she had been smoking. When my wife wasnt home, I confronted my daughter about her smoking when she got back from the party. At first she was almost embarrassed that I was asking, but when I kept asked her directly she eventually admitted that she had been smoking for several months. I was heartbroken and angry at the same time, and I let her know it.

I railed on and on about the evils of smoking, and how terrible it was, how bad for her health, but I couldnt help but feel like my tirade was falling on my daughter's deaf ears. I felt like some kind inquisitor, but I had to ask more questions. Who did she smoke with? "friends". Where was she getting her cigarettes? "uh, friends". Did her mother give her cigarettes? She hesitated and mumbled a whine, then loudly said that she'd "already told me she got them from friends". I was unconvinced, so I asked which friends? She just sighed and didnt say anything. It was like she was just shutting down and refusing to listen to my warnings or answer any more questions.

This was not anything like my daughter's usual behavior. I told her it was unacceptable and that she was not to ever smoke again. She remained silent. I repeated myself and asked her to agree. She stayed silent a moment, then pointed out that I used to smoke and that mom still smokes. I told her this was different, she was too young, she was under aged, and that at least I had the good sense to quit smoking and that I didnt want her to go through what I had to quit. She remained silently defiant.

I told her she would be grounded indefinitely unless she agreed to quit smoking. No cell phone, no tv, no internet, no allowance, no going out on weekends, no having friends over, nothing. She started to cry, and said I was being unfair. I told it was for her own good, and I that it was only because I cared about her that I was grounding her. She cried more and said that she couldnt quit because she was afraid she might already be addicted. At first I thought she was making it up, I mean, how could someone so young get addicted to cigarettes after smoking for just a few months? She said she was serious, and that she didnt want to agree to something that she didnt think she could do. I told her that if she didnt want to be grounded, she had to quit smoking immediately, but that I would agree to get her something like the gum or the patch, or whatever she needed. She said she didnt want to quit right now and didnt think she could do it. In my mind, I could just hear her mother's voice speaking through her mouth.

I had to put my foot down. In the firmest voice Ive ever used as a parent, I told her again that she would be grounded, from everything, if she didnt promise to stop smoking immediately. She cried and said I would ruin her summer if I did that, I responded by telling her that she would ruin her life if she kept smoking. With a familiar look of desperation in her eye she asked if she could just agree to "try" to quit at the end of summer. I told her no, that was too late, it was now or never. Just as stubborn as her mother, she held her ground and said that I always told her not to make promises she couldnt keep, and that she couldnt promise me anything about quitting right now.

I told her that she was looking at being grounded all summer, starting with the entire month of June, and sent her to her room. Not long after she walked down the hall and shut her door, I started to feel shutters about what happened. I had never been so harsh as a parent, because Id never had to, and I really wasnt sure how she'd respond. I almost felt guilty about how stern I was, but I just kept telling myself that it was one of those tough things parents sometimes have to do for the good of the child.

Later that evening my wife came home from work, cigarette in her mouth as always. She was furious with me and said I had come down too hard on her for something as silly as smoking. I started to make my defense that it was for her own good and that I didnt want to see our daughter become a smoker. She started into her own tirade about how I didnt need to make this personal, and it wasnt about her, and she should be free to smoke if she choose. I argued back that I wasnt making this about her, but that it was about the health of our daughter. She kept saying her smoking was not a big deal and that she herself had started smoking when she was that age, as do alot of kids, and didnt see what all the fuss was about. I felt like I was listening to a broken record. I told her that we had to draw the line somewhere with our daughter, and that it might be one thing if our daughter was 18 and of legal age to buy her own cigarettes and making her own decisions, but that she was just way too young to just blow this off.

Taking a cue from a suggestion on this post, I casually mentioned that neither of us could afford to be lax on this, because what if someone reported something to child protective services. She went ice cold and told me I better not be sending her veiled threats. I told her I wasnt, but that I was genuinely concerned about our daughter's health. I told her she simply could not buy our daughter cigarettes, and that we'd be in even worse trouble if she was prosecuted for that on top of everything else, and that I was concerned for both her and our daughter. She claimed that she never directly bought cigarettes exclusively for our daughter. I asked her what that meant by that, and she said nothing for a moment while she angrily lit herself another cigarette.

She unleashed another rant against me saying that I was being way too harsh on our daughter for something as trivial as cigarettes, especially when some of her friends were trying smoking too, and said that she was a good kid, an A student, and didnt need to be treated like some kind of criminal. I almost interrupted to say somthing, when she kept getting louder and going on about how she was a good mother, and how she was trying her best and said that she would not listen to me level all kinds of accusations against her, and that I better plan on sleeping alone in the spare bedroom to let myself cool off.

I started to say something but my mind was blank. My wife's voice got low, very quiet, like she was containing rage behind another drag off her cigarette. She looked me in the eye and said point blank "you do not want this fight". She said that I really needed to think about whether or not I wanted to run everything into the ground over this smoking issue. She said I wasnt thinking this through far enough, and that if I was going to make baseless accusations against her about providing cigarettes to underaged minors, I better look around and ask myself if I was ready to lose it all. She said that if I pushed her into divorce, then she might be forced to tell the judge about how I used to have a drinking problem, and about how Im always gone out of town for work and how she thinks I had an affair last year on a business trip, and about how mean and cruel Ive been during this past year; and that after all a judge hears all of that, she'd end up with the house and at least half or more of everything we own, and then that Id spend more than half of each paycheck paying her alimony and child support, and give her primary custody of our daughter. I was speechless, but deep down I suspected she was right, and I could feel the pit in the bottom of my stomach just fall away.

Then she stepped close to me, so close I could almost feel the stale cigarette smell permeating her, and she said that she didnt want any of that and that it didnt have to be that way. She must have seen the look of defeat and fear on my face, because as I slowly walked towards the door to head to the spare bedroom, she reached out and gently touched my hand, I turned and she said 'dont let it be about this' while gesturing to her lit cigarette in her other hand. She kissed me on the cheek, and I almost cried right there, before I kept on walking to sleep alone in the spare room that night.

I could not sleep that night, and have had many sleepless night since then. I thought about how much I loved my family, even though they drive me crazy. I also thought about the total financial ruin that a divorce would bring. If I thought I was paranoid about the cost of cigarettes before, I was deluding myself. Almost any concievable divorce scenario I can imagine would result in me having to file bankruptcy. More than the total financial ruin this would render, I fear Id lose custody of my daughter and see her far less than I do now. It almost brings me to tears just thinking about it. If she lived with her mother, and then there would be little I could do on a day to day basis to actually stop my daughter from smoking if she wanted to. Then where would I be, broke, divorced, missing my family, and still unable to really do anything about either my wife or daughters smoking.

Turns out, there's apparently little I can do now to stop her from smoking every day, even when she's been grounded. Everyday since this whole blow up, a few weeks ago, my daughter comes and hugs me when I come home and everyday, I smell the smoke on her both when I come home from work, or when I leave in the mornings, or anytime she is near me. I want to pretend I dont notice, partly because she has been so sweet lately, just like her old self always was, except that now she smells like cigarettes all the time. Once or twice I said something to her about it, but instead of being confrontational or defensive, she just smiled and said that maybe she had just been around some smoke earlier but hadnt noticed, or some other glib explaination like that. She has still technically been "grounded", but I suppose she still has ways to get her cigarettes. Im torn because Im affraid of what might happen if I open that issue up again right now. Except for how upset this whole smoking debacle has made me, I almost feel guilty trying to keep my daughter grounded over this, in light of how kind and affiable she has been about everything these past few weeks; even though I know she's clearly smoking behind my back everyday, since Im out of the house all day for work, its almost like shes acting too sweet to be punished.

Although things are still icy with my wife, and we have been staying in seperate bedrooms the past few weeks, I think the cold tension in our strained relationship is starting to thaw. Although both of us have avoided discussing these issues further since our fight, earlier this week she commented that I should consider sleeping in our bedroom again with her sometime in the new few weeks, instead of alone in the spare bedroom, then casually mentioned that perhaps the end of the month would also be a good time to lighten up on our daughter and unground her so she could have at least some of her summer. I know I shouldnt cave in on this, and It makes me mad to even think about it, but all of this is starting to wear on me and deep down I know its because Im scared to lose what I have, both family wise and financially.

[Brandie]

You need to talk to a few divorce lawyers and see what your options are. Your wife obviously doesn't give a damn about you, your daughter or your finances. Just because she says it would go all her way doesn't mean a damn thing. She's financially inept and is encouraging and supplying your underage daughter with cigarettes. And if she's dumb enough to tell a judge that your 12 year old daughter's smoking habit is no big deal she'll be putting her whole leg in her mouth. I wish you luck in trying to get your wife to quit but my dad died of lung cancer a few years ago (he started smoking when he was 10)and my mom still smokes. I don't know if my mom actually cut back like she claims ( I haven't seen her in a few years) but she was much like your wife-my mom would light one cigarette with another. My mom is about to lose her house and she still won't quit to save money. As for your "financial gripe" it does not resolve it at all. Your wife should be helping with the finances not just paying for her bad habit. Why is it your sole responsibility to pay for her housing, food, clothing, and everything else and she only has to pay for cigarettes? It sure as hell isn't fair to you.