Smoking the budget away

[snafu]

The fact that your wife chose work where it is ok to smoke tells you she's in a really bad mental space. She doesn't value herself, her life, you or your daughter. She only values action that is destructive to herself, to you and your relationship and your daughter.

Millions of people have stopped smoking proving that her action is just selfish, self centered absorption. I suggest you start planning now for the future after your wife is diagnosed with emphysema or COPD or one of the even more serious, devastating lung diseases.

[skydivingchic]

Honestly this comes down to what safari said - your wife will not change until she herself is good and ready (if that time ever comes). Nothing you can do will force her to do so. It sounds like there are other issues going on and she could use some help. But her behavior is absolutely affecting the health of you and your daughter. So you are left with the decision - can you live with the smoking or not? Its not an easy or fun decision, but that is the decision. If you can't live with it, then you need leave. If you can live with it, you need to leave her alone about the smoking. You will NOT change her - realize that and accept it. Bugging her about it will only lead to resentment and likely her strengthening her resolve to keep it up.

[frugalgirl]

This is not about the smoking. She is unhappy probably from the job loss (and the loss of self-esteem/self-worth that having the job gave her) and may be irritated that you get the luxury of being happier than she is. She may feel like you just don't get how she feels. Thus, she is trying to make you feel as miserable as she is by doing the one thing she can to get to you - smoke.

I think that you need to change your tactic and just get real with her and firm. Tell her you know she is unhappy since she lost the job but making you miserable is not the answer. Tell her you can't do anything to be helpful until she decides what it is she needs to be happy. Ask her why she insists on making you more miserable, too. In the long run, you two have to work together or you will both end up miserable and so will your child.

Tell her you will work with her to help her get what she needs to be happier but she must do the same for you. This is a family where all members have the right and responsibility to be a happy unit - not individual rights to do as they please at the expense of the others.

[thekid]

Your wife has a powerful drug addiction. It's quite apparent from her behaviour (it's a "junkie" mindset and behaviour pattern).

I don't mean this harshly or to sound sensationalist, but I think that's the way you have to view and approach this.

The drug is her crutch. She trully, deeply believes she needs it. That she can't live without it. That's why she is prioritizing it so highly (if push comes to shove, maybe above everything else). She sounds quite taken in by the addiction.

What she needs to do is change her mindset about cigarettes. Realize it's not a crutch or support, but just burning dried leaves that constitute a serious health hazard. She needs to substitute something healthy for cigarettes. She wants the "role" cigarettes play for her, not cigarettes per se. The physical addiction is hard to quit, but frankly that just takes a few weeks to get over. Her mental addiction (her viewing cigarettes as a necessary crutch) is what can take years and years to break. She needs to change how she views cigarettes and substitute in new healthier coping mecanisms.

I believe she, deep down, wants to quit. She's just scared of giving up her crutch. I'd continue to talk to her and push her to quit. It will have to come from her, but I think you need to keep up reasonable pressure. She can't be allowed to think that it's ok.

On another note, second hand smoke is extremely bad for your and daughter's health. It is particularly damaging for younger people, like your daughter. Cigarettes have been around for a long time and for those that have always been around them, the health risks can be sort of "normalized" and accepted. It should not be. Living with a 3+ pack indoor smoker may very well KILL your daughter at an early age. Her chances of developing cancer or serious respiratory illnesses are greatly increased.

For this reason, I would absolutely demand that ALL smoking be done outside. I think this is the most important thing you can do.

For the quiting, I would maintain pressure and constructively address with her the core issues with smoking, try to help her see it for what it is (an unhealthy and poorly designed coping mechanism -it has no inherently comforting properties) and try to get her to develop and adopt healthier coping mechanisms.

Good luck.

[StudentRN]

I had a long, wordy reply to this, but it got erased somehow, so I'll leave you with just a small tip for cutting costs for the short term:

My husband started rolling his own cigarettes, so the price of a carton went from $40 to $16. I highly recommend you suggest this to your wife. It's much much cheaper than buying packs or cartons, and free of some of the more harmful chemicals that are found in fire safe cigarettes. Please forgive if my math is wrong, but that could theoretically cut your cigarette costs down from (assuming 3 packs a day)$450/mo to $144/mo. It's very easy to roll your own too, so it wouldn't be much extra work for some big savings.

Just a thought.

[couchrobt]

It is just too sad I guess. Sometimes there are things that we cannot really control or it is beyond our ability to make things right. Maybe in time (hopeful) maybe there is still time for a change.

[bsmith]

I feel very sorry for you.
If I were you, I would pay close attention to your daughter.
What you don't want is having to support two cigarette habits
each month. You might be able to prevent that by checking
your daughter's handbag or room, when possible.
Good luck.

[SteveBlissLaw]

Yeah it's crazy. I myself am a long time smoker. YOu just have to find a way to get through to her I guess

[Mitch71]

So, its been a while, but some recent events made me feel like it was time for an update on my wife's hopeless chainsmoking and the situation its put us in.

Although she is still smoking through 3 to 4 packs a day, making everything from the house to the car to the bed smell like a stale ashtray, at least she's started to get better about paying for her own cigarettes again. Shes still working only part time, but since she started ordering her cartons online at a discount, I havent had to give her money for cigarettes in a several weeks. Better still, she actually made her (cigarette) credit card payment ontime this month, with one day to spare, and even put an extra $100 down on it above the minimum. I know thats not enough to make a dent in that cigarette debt fast enough, but I was trying to be optimistic about the fact that at least she's "making progress". I had pretty much given up hope on her ever trying to quit smoking, but at least she could try to contain the financial damage.

But then last night something came up when we went out to eat indian food as a family to celebrate our 12 year old daughter finishing the school year with straight A's again. Towards the end of dinner our daughter said she had to "step outside" to take a phone call, which I'd noticed she'd been doing alot more often lately, but when she came back to the table she accidentally dropped her purse and I saw a pack of cigarettes almost fall out. I almost said something about it right then and their, and it was all I could do to bite my tounge and not chew her out right there. I didnt want to ruin the dinner and I wasn't yet 100% positive what I had seen, so I decided to wait and confirm before I said anything.

Driving home in the car, with my wife constantly chainsmoking, filling the car with fumes as she usually does, the fact that my daughter was apparently starting to become a smoker was dwelling on my mind. When we got home I planned on giving her a stern talking to, but I wanted to check to be sure that what I saw was cigarettes. Our daughter went to her room to pack for a weekend sleepover at a friends house that she has been planning on, so I pulled my wife aside in the other room and told her about the cigarettes I thought I saw. My wife stared at me blankly, took another drag and basically blew me off. She didnt quite say "so what", but she said that she had started smoking around the same age and didnt see what the big deal was. In my view, she practically tacitly admitted to me right then that she knew our daughter had been smoking, and was fine with it, although she said phrased it differently. I told her I did not want our daughter to end up addicted to cigarettes and that I wanted to search her purse to see if she had any. My wife went ballistic in a hurry, and got very defensive and took what I said personally and started going on about how she cant help it if shes addicted and that theres nothing wrong with her smoking, and that its her decision, then went on to say that our daughter was in a very sensitive time in her life and did not need me to be going through her purse, snooping around, invading her privacy. We were just about to have a heated argument over it when she grabbed her purse and said that she was going to take our daughter to her friends house for the weekend and that she and I could discuss this later, but that she wasnt going to let me ruin our daughters end of the year school party.

I still havent had the chance to address this with my wife, but I just dont know what to say. Part of me thinks that my wife is not just being a bad role model for our daughter, by being such a flagrant chain-smoker, but also that she may be covering up for her and enabeling her to join in her addiction. The paranoid father in me even wonders if my wife isnt the one supplying our daughter with cigarettes. Im sensitive to the whole respecting teenage privacy deal, and I dont want to feel like I have to go snooping around pilfering through her socks and underwear drawer to look for her contraband cigarettes (although since my daughter seems to constantly wear ballet flats without socks, I literally never see her wearing socks anymore, I dont suppose she has much in her sock drawer that she could use to conceal her cigarettes) Either way, I dont want to have to feel like the secret police shaking my daughter down for where shes hiding her cigarettes, and I dont like the way this has me thinking.

This whole chain smoking issue may have been lurking in the background for years, but I guess it took my sudden financial awareness of just how costly it really is for it to be brought to a head. I dont know how to talk about it with my wife anymore, or if I even can, and Im worried it may already be too late to stop our daughter from becoming a smoker.

[bennkar]

Holy moly, that sounds beyond awful. I stick with what I wrote here previously on this subject. Trying to be nice about this has only let a bad situation get worse (not surprising). Her making enough to pay for her addiction is only letting it go on longer, not resolving it (and in my mind not helping things at all). If you will live with things the way they are, then you're going to have to drop the subject with her and live in misery and accept it. If you've decided you can't live like this, you have to make a choice on how you will deal with this, but the longer you delay in starting towards a resolution, the longer it will be until things are resolved. Sorry, but there are no easy answers here. Its time to suck it up and make a choice, because even if you don't choose, you are choosing letting things get worse.

[thekid]

Whether your wife quits will ultimately be up to her. What I would ask (actually demand) is that (i) she pay for it and (ii) all smoking be done outside to minimalize the impact on other's health.

As for your daughter, we don't know her. The approach would have to be tailored to her personality. I'd be inclined to go the open dialogue route. Talk with her, explain clearly the healh impact. Research online. At such a young age, smoking is actually a much more risky activity than at an older age. Her changes of developping cancer at a later age are significantly increased due to her smoking at an early age. I'd talk to your wife, let her know that this isn't about her, it's about your daughter's health. If you can get her onboard, that would be great. If not, I'm afraid it might well be very difficult. If she's undercutting you on this and you feel strongly about it, it might get real rough.

Like some previous posters said, you need to clearly establish where you stand on this. Both towards your wife and daughter, the financials and the health. You can prioritize. What's a deal breaker and what's not. From there, I'd just be fully transparent, calm and unwaivering. If none of it is a deal breaker, that's also fine.

Good luck.

[snafu]

A 12 y/o isn't allowed to smoke, in many communities it i illegal to sell or supply cigarettes to anyone under 18.

Your wife is incredibly self absorbed and obviously isn't interested in anything but what she wants,not you, not daughter, not household, not financial security and not employment that might limit her smoking. Is this really about smoking or about who is in control of finance and house. I doubt I would tolerate such disgusting behavior.

Would you consider contacting smoking cessation programs to access photos of smoke damaged lungs? I'd have them enlarged at any copy shop and temporarily 'wall paper' the bathroom and TV room with visuals of how disgusting smoking can be.

[Ronin]

This may not be an option for you, but my wife use to smoke before when we were dating and after we got married. Before getting married she had agreed with me that she would quit smoking when we got married because she knew I hated it. Well she didn't quit as agreed. Then about 4 years, I just broke down and said I would divorce her over the cigarette smoking. I was a bit serious but also bluffing a bit. However, your wife may not be able to psychologically take something like that, but it worked for me and she quit smoking from that day forward. It was a high risk / high gain situation, but it worked out for both of us.

[bsmith]

For Mitch71:

It’s probable your wife helped your daughter learn to smoke. It’s probable your wife buys cigarettes for your daughter. You need to forget about all that. What you absolutely must do instead is confront your daughter in a caring and loving way. Remind her of the health hazards of cigarettes and how you do not want her to wind up like your relatives, either dead or on oxygen. If she’s an A student, she should be able to process that information.

If she continues to hold firm with smoking, tell her she has to earn money to pay for her cigarettes. Baby-sitting is always a possibility. So are chores around the house beyond making her bed and brushing her teeth. You will then buy her the cigarettes but under no circumstances should she accept some from her mother. That way you at least have control over how much she smokes. Keep the number small, by all means. Set ground rules where and when she may smoke and make her accountable to all the rules you lay out. In time she may simply stop smoking. Good students often come to their senses and do that.

As for your wife … have you talked to her about getting counseling with you? If you attend a church you should be able to receive counseling from a minister at no charge. With a licensed counselor in private practice, you may be able to work out a payment plan. I realize this would be just one more expense. However if you want to save your marriage, it might be your only alternative.

[bennkar]

While you mean well, going this route is going to prolong the problem. The wife has already shown she will go behind the OP's back with supplying the child with cigarettes (OK, I think its obvious - you may disagree) and will continue to do that. Until you get both on the same page with the child, telling the girl she can get cigarettes if she works for them may slow down the initial problem but will most likely make her feel she's "earned" them, and won't stop long term (or the mother will continue to "supply" her daughter).

If you can tell the girl that her mother has a "problem" (however you want to define it), and that you will not allow her to go down that road, maybe she'll get it and stop. But if that won't work then you need to resolve it with your wife, one way or the other so that you stop your daughter from smoking. Stop enabling your wife, and stop the problem, or long term it will kill you too.

For Mitch71:

It’s probable your wife helped your daughter learn to smoke. It’s probable your wife buys cigarettes for your daughter. You need to forget about all that. What you absolutely must do instead is confront your daughter in a caring and loving way. Remind her of the health hazards of cigarettes and how you do not want her to wind up like your relatives, either dead or on oxygen. If she’s an A student, she should be able to process that information.

If she continues to hold firm with smoking, tell her she has to earn money to pay for her cigarettes. Baby-sitting is always a possibility. So are chores around the house beyond making her bed and brushing her teeth. You will then buy her the cigarettes but under no circumstances should she accept some from her mother. That way you at least have control over how much she smokes. Keep the number small, by all means. Set ground rules where and when she may smoke and make her accountable to all the rules you lay out. In time she may simply stop smoking. Good students often come to their senses and do that.

As for your wife … have you talked to her about getting counseling with you? If you attend a church you should be able to receive counseling from a minister at no charge. With a licensed counselor in private practice, you may be able to work out a payment plan. I realize this would be just one more expense. However if you want to save your marriage, it might be your only alternative.