Who's voting for Donald Trump?

[tripods68]

I'm curious to know to those voting for Trump (I counted only 2 QuarterMillionMan & Fishindude77), I'd like your take on what makes you believe in Donald Trump--besides what he is saying publicly that "I'm not a politician, I tell like it is...Mexico is going to pay the Wall, etc" Do you really believe what he is saying? Are you merely just entertain by it all and that's why you like him.

[Spiffster]

The strange thing is, he is getting the majority of the 29 and under vote. Go figure.

Thats because people this age are in debt, have almost no assets to pilfer, and figure they will get **** for free at the expense of the 1%. Some of the things Bernie is promising will never happen, and he knows it. Although I will say this is pretty much the same deal with the other candidates.

[bjl584]

I'm curious to know to those voting for Trump (I counted only 2 QuarterMillionMan & Fishindude77), I'd like your take on what makes you believe in Donald Trump--besides what he is saying publicly that "I'm not a politician, I tell like it is...Mexico is going to pay the Wall, etc" Do you really believe what he is saying? Are you merely just entertain by it all and that's why you like him.

I think people just like his against the grain, anti-establishment rhetoric. It's a breath of fresh air so to speak from what we are used to hearing from politicians.

But, I think that people tend to forget a few things about campaign speeches.

One, they are just speeches. Go back and listen to what the candidates said on the campaign trail over the past 30 years. Then, compare it to how many of those promises and plans actually came true. It's one thing to say that someone is going to do something or accomplish something as President when they are on the outside looking in. It's a whole different matter to be the President, be on the inside, and have to try to accomplish things.

Two, the President is not a dictator. Congress passes laws, not the President. Any candidate can say anything to make voters happy, but it's a whole different matter getting your ideas and proposals through Congress and making them the law of the land.

[ua_guy]

Thats because people this age are in debt, have almost no assets to pilfer, and figure they will get **** for free at the expense of the 1%. Some of the things Bernie is promising will never happen, and he knows it. Although I will say this is pretty much the same deal with the other candidates.

There are those people, and then there are the young Bernie supporters like me who have an axe to grind against corporate America. We built our careers during a recession, up against a broken system, now we've done well for ourselves and have reached top income percentiles in our early 30's, or have reached some comfortable semblance of an income. Now it's time to **** all the people to the wall who held us back. One of the ways we can try doing that is through politics.

[bjl584]

There are those people, and then there are the young Bernie supporters like me who have an axe to grind against corporate America. We built our careers during a recession, up against a broken system, now we've done well for ourselves and have reached top income percentiles in our early 30's, or have reached some comfortable semblance of an income. Now it's time to **** all the people to the wall who held us back. One of the ways we can try doing that is through politics.

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

How can someone that has reached top income percentiles in their early 30's via building a career and an education through the hardship of the great recession possibly argue that they have been held back by anyone and now feel the need to nail someone to a wall?

[Fishindude77]

I'm curious to know to those voting for Trump (I counted only 2 QuarterMillionMan & Fishindude77), I'd like your take on what makes you believe in Donald Trump--besides what he is saying publicly that "I'm not a politician, I tell like it is...Mexico is going to pay the Wall, etc" Do you really believe what he is saying? Are you merely just entertain by it all and that's why you like him.

This is a definite setup to hack on whatever response myself or anyone else pro-Trump might respond with. I'll play:
I like that he's not spent the last decades of his life in political employment.
I'm quite certain he will be very pro business.
He has a track record of making big deals and getting things done in the private sector, so hoping some of this will work over into his public service.
I like the idea of tougher border control w/ Mexico.
I like his anti-Muslim stance.
I liked the way he doesn't let his competitors and the media push him around.

How successful he will be, who knows?
But we are long overdue for a president that has accomplished something other than being a career politician.

[bjl584]

This is a definite setup to hack on whatever response myself or anyone else pro-Trump might respond with.

I do urge that we stay civil on this thread.

Political threads have a tendency to get nasty.

Let's all keep an open mind.

[ua_guy]

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

How can someone that has reached top income percentiles in their early 30's via building a career and an education through the hardship of the great recession possibly argue that they have been held back by anyone and now feel the need to nail someone to a wall?

I think you'll get a lot of good perspectives if anyone else chimes in on the topic.

Young guys like me who have an income, but not wealth, struggled against a broken system and we see that we could be much farther ahead had it not been for reckless greed, and it threatens our future (still).

We paid far more for tuition and student loan interest compared to generations past, just so we could meet minimum job requirements for livable incomes. We undersold our talent and labor in a struggling economy just so we could be sold "continued employment" as a job perk, having benefits cut, meanwhile heads of companies and big banks, oil companies, were having record profitable years.

The government is lending money to private financial institutions for damn near free while banks resell it to us in the form of high interest loans, and interest on CD's and savings have been a joke since three decades ago. We've watched our elders become sick with age and go bankrupt trying to manage medical expenses. We ourselves have been dicked by health insurers and pay disproportionate percentages of our incomes for health insurance, a benefit that used to be covered by employers.

We watched our parents try to retire at a time when corporate America saw it fit to discontinue or buy out their pensions for pennies on the dollar, and a rigged financial market explode, taking years of accumulated wealth with it. Or maybe our parents didn't retire, and worked several more years to make up the gap.

We're watching our country spend trillions on a war that most of us never agreed with, with private contractors making out like Kings--yet we can't find money for teachers or to repair our own infrastructure, or find enough money to see that foster kids are taken care of.

Monopolies are ****ing innovation in healthcare and telecom and manufacturing and alternative energy, controlling pricing, and paying the government to secure the interests of their companies (meanwhile ****ing their employees) --the list goes on..

Meanwhile we pay disproportionate percentages of our own incomes to save for retirement, which used to be mostly managed and promised by employers that we spent our lives working for... We've seen Social Security mostly fail the truly poor and vulnerable in an era of rising costs, and we continue to contribute to it, yet everyone tells us it probably won't be there for us.

We are a generation that is smarter and more productive than ever, yet incomes have stagnated and costs continue to rise, quality of life and healthcare outcomes seem to be on a downward trend, among so many other things. Guys like me that have an income and have succeeded despite the odds are still feeling threatened that it could all be taken away, or that there will be nothing there for us when we're old, even if we bootstrap it, work our asses off, sacrifice, and invest money in the market to keep the cycle of money going round in this country. "Risk" is enough. We don't need additional hands in the pot of big business and politics making it even harder for us.

The difference between the Bernie supporter who "wants free ****" and me is that I don't blame anyone for my choices but I'm willing to fight to make it easier for the next guy who tries to follow in my path, and I'm interested in securing my future interests.

So, yeah, "Not Trump" -2016.

[Fishindude77]

I don't get the "axe to grind against corporate America" thinking?

Upset because some guy at the top of one of those corporations is extremely wealthy? I guess you'd be happier if those businesses and the thousands of jobs they create just went away?

[bjl584]

I think you'll get a lot of good perspectives if anyone else chimes in on the topic.

Young guys like me who have an income, but not wealth, struggled against a broken system and we see that we could be much farther ahead had it not been for reckless greed, and it threatens our future (still).

We paid far more for tuition and student loan interest compared to generations past, just so we could meet minimum job requirements for livable incomes. We undersold our talent and labor in a struggling economy just so we could be sold "continued employment" as a job perk, having benefits cut, meanwhile heads of companies and big banks, oil companies, were having record profitable years.

The government is lending money to private financial institutions for damn near free while banks resell it to us in the form of high interest loans, and interest on CD's and savings have been a joke since three decades ago. We've watched our elders become sick with age and go bankrupt trying to manage medical expenses. We ourselves have been dicked by health insurers and pay disproportionate percentages of our incomes for health insurance, a benefit that used to be covered by employers.

We watched our parents try to retire at a time when corporate America saw it fit to discontinue or buy out their pensions for pennies on the dollar, and a rigged financial market explode, taking years of accumulated wealth with it. Or maybe our parents didn't retire, and worked several more years to make up the gap.

We're watching our country spend trillions on a war that most of us never agreed with, with private contractors making out like Kings--yet we can't find money for teachers or to repair our own infrastructure, or find enough money to see that foster kids are taken care of.

Monopolies are ****ing innovation in healthcare and telecom and manufacturing and alternative energy, controlling pricing, and paying the government to secure the interests of their companies (meanwhile ****ing their employees) --the list goes on..

Meanwhile we pay disproportionate percentages of our own incomes to save for retirement, which used to be mostly managed and promised by employers that we spent our lives working for... We've seen Social Security mostly fail the truly poor and vulnerable in an era of rising costs, and we continue to contribute to it, yet everyone tells us it probably won't be there for us.

We are a generation that is smarter and more productive than ever, yet incomes have stagnated and costs continue to rise, quality of life and healthcare outcomes seem to be on a downward trend, among so many other things. Guys like me that have an income and have succeeded despite the odds are still feeling threatened that it could all be taken away, or that there will be nothing there for us when we're old, even if we bootstrap it, work our asses off, sacrifice, and invest money in the market to keep the cycle of money going round in this country. "Risk" is enough. We don't need additional hands in the pot of big business and politics making it even harder for us.

The difference between the Bernie supporter who "wants free ****" and me is that I don't blame anyone for my choices but I'm willing to fight to make it easier for the next guy who tries to follow in my path, and I'm interested in securing my future interests.

So, yeah, "Not Trump" -2016.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I'm just not sure if someone in your position making your income is going to gain much support or sympathy from the masses.

Had you not had the chance to go to college and you were working in retail making $9 an hour saying all the things that you said above, people would be more inclined to listen to you. Right now you may just be a lone voice in the wilderness with no audience. I guess this is why I have trouble connecting with or believing any politician on either side of the isle. It's a bunch of corrupted multi-millionaires telling me how they are for the "little guy." Sure. Right......

But, I respect your passion. Don't ever sell out your values and beliefs. Keep up the good fight.

[Singuy]

I don't get the "axe to grind against corporate America" thinking?

Upset because some guy at the top of one of those corporations is extremely wealthy? I guess you'd be happier if those businesses and the thousands of jobs they create just went away?

I don't think anyone is mad at Google, Apple, Tesla..etc for having very wealthy people at the top. These are companies that are innovative and created REAL products and deserve every penny they make.

We all have problems with hedge fund billionaires and what I call money entrepreneurs. These people are like patent trolls. They specialize in nothing but to somehow manipulate money to their advantage and somehow pocket it with loops holes through massive lobbying. What did these people actually created? They are worst than the Feds. At least the feds print a paper substance called money...vs these people who just create money out of thin air and somehow put real money into their pockets. When they are caught doing illegal activities..suddenly they are too big to fail(and jail) because they created way too much of this thin air. This is the BS we need to stop. No one dislikes small or even large businesses.

The richest guys at the top are not inventors, but hedge fund billionaires. So no, we are not jealous of white collar scam artists.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

bjl because many of the people making good incomes aren't necessarily wealthy. We're one job loss away from losing everything. Before Obamacare many people even with great savings would have been in dire straights trying to buy healthcare if we lost our "employer provided health insurance." Obamacare is a republican idea from the 90s by the way and I prefer socialized medicine. But if we are moving to free market healthcare so be it. I just expect it to have a mandate and require companies to insure everyone.

But that aside, why would someone making good money care about others? Because we're in this together. Want to see more crime? People getting more desperate as the gap widens between the haves and have nots? Have we seen this play out before? Yes. It seems cyclical and I feel that the US is heading down the path fast between those who make the rules, the plutocrats, and everyone else. Better scramble to make sure you don't accidentally fall on the other side because you'll never get out. Money doesn't buy everything and look at all the homeless in what was once a beautiful city of SF. In Mahattan last summer I saw a van for homeless people to be put in and driven away from Manhattan so it would look nice (called department of homeless services DHS, thought it was dept of homeland security).

So maybe there are people who are worried in the upper incomes because we aren't rich enough to be the plutocrats and realize that we're that close to the edge? I don't expect to have an audience, but many people feel until they need a hand up or help out it's not necessary to worry about anyone else.

And more than a few of us do feel the government isn't listening with two wars and it seems like endless warmonging. And today I hear Paul Ryan talking about biogotry and racism. Classic. So speak up against the KKK but allow islamaphobia to spread and incite hate? I didn't see them speaking up earlier but now that Trump is potentially leading they want to pretend they didn't agree with him earlier? Great hypocrisy.

So I'm not surprised by anyone now voting for trump or bernie. Maybe a lot of people are sick and tired of being lied to and hearing only from puppet hypocrites.

[QuarterMillionMan]

First off I'm a registered democrat. Trump may be a womanizer, egotistical, a bigot, etc., but he is the only one who constantly complains about our $19 trillion debt and Trump is the only one who seems to want to do something to bring down that debt. Sanders wants to give free higher education to all, which is nice and all but where will Sanders find the funding to do that. Most of us on this forum have our financial houses in order. It would be fantastic if our government can do the same rather than to keep kicking the can down the road.

[Singuy]

First off I'm a registered democrat. Trump may be a womanizer, egotistical, a bigot, etc., but he is the only one who constantly complains about our $19 trillion debt and Trump is the only one who seems to want to do something to bring down that debt. Sanders wants to give free higher education to all, which is nice and all but where will Sanders find the funding to do that. Most of us on this forum have our financial houses in order. It would be fantastic if our government can do the same rather than to keep kicking the can down the road.

Talking about a $19 trillion debt is just talking. What is Trump's plan to shrink our deficit exactly? Is there a study on how kicking out Muslims and Mexicans can help our deficit? "I'm a good business man, I am rich, and I know how to do business" doesn't exactly cut it as a plan.

Bernie's single payer healthcare system can potentially reduce our healthcare cost to near European levels(who pays 1/3 of what we pay and gets higher ranked in health care) therefore reducing our federal expenditures. Look at what the government pays out on the federal budget. Healthcare sucks away 11% MORE than the military! Our biggest expenditure is social security however and no one is touching that.

So what do you want to cut? Our foreign aid, scientific research, or education? Because it is 4% of our federal budget if you add all of them combined.

So if you are REALLY fiscally conservative, then maybe you should vote for single payer healthcare system and not some politician who wants to cut foreign aid..because cutting 1% out of our federal budget doesn't do squat.
Also perhaps you should favor of raising taxes(more revenue) to help pay down our national debt.

Lastly "free education" can potentially strength the middle class so we can have less "moochers" and more qualified workers who can pay more taxes(with their higher pay).

To tackle the national debt, we either spend less or earn more in tax dollars. Our deficit have already shrunk so if you want to spend less, then you should tackle healthcare cost and the military in order to make a difference(not social security because that's our money right?). If you don't want to tackle those two things then maybe look into strengthening the middle class because they are the consumers and the job creators...so we can have a higher tax revenue.

You have to realize we are in the situation we are in today all because of the stupid ass trickle down economics started by Regan. Cutting taxes for the ultra rich, deregulating banks and wall street, going into multiple wars, having banks gamble with our money, and giving mortgages out like candy created a massive recession and wealth distribution toward the top 0.1%. So if you want to fix our economy, then take out all the middle man lobbyists lingering around these politicians, get money out of politics, and implement middle out economics ASAP!

[QuarterMillionMan]

BTW no other candidate harps on the deficit as much as Trump does. I liken it to when I am talking with my family/friends/peers about finances when I notice the "silent ones." The silent ones are usually the ones who don't have a good handle on their finances. I've never heard Bernie, Hillary, Marco, or Ted say how appalled they are with our $19 trillion debt. Trump shows his disgust towards it and talks about how it is unsustainable. I much rather have someone like Trump who incessantly talks about than the others who do not talk about it possibly will add more to it.