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    #61
    Originally posted by Singuy View Post

    Are you saying that your garage is full of stuff therefore you park on the driveway? That's a personal problem and can be fixed. Also you can always use an extension cord. I do that at my inlaws.
    Again, this assumes that you can park close to your house. That's a suburban mindset. In Philly, we could park one car behind the house. The other three (or 4 for a time) were parked on the street). And plenty of city homes don't have garages at all. It's all street parking.
    Steve

    * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
    * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
    * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

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      #62
      Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

      Again, this assumes that you can park close to your house. That's a suburban mindset. In Philly, we could park one car behind the house. The other three (or 4 for a time) were parked on the street). And plenty of city homes don't have garages at all. It's all street parking.
      Well I did say 80% of people charges at home, not 100%.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by Singuy View Post

        Are you saying that your garage is full of stuff therefore you park on the driveway? That's a personal problem and can be fixed. Also you can always use an extension cord. I do that at my inlaws.

        Solar can still gather power on cloudy days, just at 1/3 the efficiency. So unless we are talking about places where it's night time for half a year like Alaska or something, a small unit can gather enough for a daily commute of the US average of 40 miles.
        Trust me when you don't see the sun for like 60 plus days i'm pretty sure we aren't charging and saving money with solar. Realize that where you live affects buying EV. If you also buy an EV 40 miiles won't be enough in colder climates because the batteries drain a lot faster during not perfect climate. There's a reason CA and FL probably have the most EV. I didn't have a garage till we moved. But back East I will attest that 1 unit in our 3 unit condo multifamily didn't even have parking. They parked on street where there is NO sidewalk so there is NO place to put a charging station or meter. Since they worked from home they would have been in trouble figuring out where to charge. And this is NOT unusual with urbn type of living out east.

        I know you can't picture it but in density places like that it's a lot more common to not have parking/driveway or shared space. Actually better than ev? Most of our friends had the zip car and didn't own cars. That is actually a much bigger saver than buying an EV. No car. we considered it heavily. Even now I consider it. I'm for certain Solar panels do not make sense. If not we'd have done it to the shed we built. But it won't ever make sense and most people I know don't do it where we live due to the nature of the sun.
        LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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          #64
          Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

          Trust me when you don't see the sun for like 60 plus days i'm pretty sure we aren't charging and saving money with solar. Realize that where you live affects buying EV. If you also buy an EV 40 miiles won't be enough in colder climates because the batteries drain a lot faster during not perfect climate. There's a reason CA and FL probably have the most EV. I didn't have a garage till we moved. But back East I will attest that 1 unit in our 3 unit condo multifamily didn't even have parking. They parked on street where there is NO sidewalk so there is NO place to put a charging station or meter. Since they worked from home they would have been in trouble figuring out where to charge. And this is NOT unusual with urbn type of living out east.

          I know you can't picture it but in density places like that it's a lot more common to not have parking/driveway or shared space. Actually better than ev? Most of our friends had the zip car and didn't own cars. That is actually a much bigger saver than buying an EV. No car. we considered it heavily. Even now I consider it. I'm for certain Solar panels do not make sense. If not we'd have done it to the shed we built. But it won't ever make sense and most people I know don't do it where we live due to the nature of the sun.
          I would speculate that if EV really catches on and takes a foothold, that eventually someone will invent a "fast charge" station.
          I'd envision a "gas" station where you pull your EV up to a "pump" and charge up as quickly as you could fill up your tank with gas.
          You would swipe your credit card and pay X amount to "fill up" and be on your way within 5 minutes.

          Probably all a long ways off, but I could see that scenario coming in some form eventually.
          In the meantime, there will be some snags, as you've described above.

          Brian

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            #65
            Originally posted by bjl584 View Post
            Probably all a long ways off, but I could see that scenario coming in some form eventually.
            In the meantime, there will be some snags, as you've described above.
            Exactly. I don't doubt that we could eventually get to a point where EVs are the dominant cars, but it isn't going to happen in the next 5 or 10 or 15 years. The infrastructure and technology changes that are required for that to happen are going to take a very long time to occur. I think EVs will remain a niche market for the foreseeable future.
            Steve

            * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
            * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
            * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

            Comment


              #66
              Car batteries have a big footprint. And, charging one's car comes usually from coal fired electricity .

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                I imagine they'll add charging stations. Maybe instead of a dozen gas pumps, they'll have 4 gas pumps and 8 charging spots.

                I've said before that what the industry really should have done is a universal battery that is quickly and easily swapped out. Rather than having to charge the car for some period of time, you pull into a "gas" station and an attendant removes your battery and pops in a freshly charged on and you go on your way. Just as filling your gas tank is uniform no matter what kind of car you have, powering up your EV should be uniform no matter what car you have. If they are going to continue with proprietary charging systems, it's going to be a mess.

                It would take 15-30 minutes to charge the car, and the only people which need this are either people more than 50 miles from home, or people without a charging station at home/work. I think the better model is charging stations in parking lots, or a portable charging station. I don't want to wait 30 minutes at a gas station in some parts of detroit

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                  #68
                  https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...e-study-2021-4

                  Study in California shows that 1 in 5 EV owners switch back to gas, the main reason being the inconvenience of charging.

                  The article talks about a number of the issues we've raised in this thread. I really think that's the biggest hurdle to more widespread adoption of EVs. Charging has to be fast and convenient.
                  Steve

                  * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                  * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                  * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
                    https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...e-study-2021-4

                    Study in California shows that 1 in 5 EV owners switch back to gas, the main reason being the inconvenience of charging.

                    The article talks about a number of the issues we've raised in this thread. I really think that's the biggest hurdle to more widespread adoption of EVs. Charging has to be fast and convenient.
                    I feel like at this stage in EV adoption, it's still about a commitment to make it work, versus there being an expectation of convenience. 1/5 or 20% switching back is not surprising to me. A lot of people see $$$$ by eliminating their monthly fuel bill and that's what motivates them to purchase, never mind the ROI of an EV can be long. They probably aren't considering the more granular details of charging/recharging, or under-estimate their patience and commitment to making their choice work.

                    I also have no doubt that our infrastructure will become more EV-friendly as time goes on.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
                      https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...e-study-2021-4

                      Study in California shows that 1 in 5 EV owners switch back to gas, the main reason being the inconvenience of charging.

                      The article talks about a number of the issues we've raised in this thread. I really think that's the biggest hurdle to more widespread adoption of EVs. Charging has to be fast and convenient.
                      That's a misleading article. The study time period being from 2012-2018 was during a time period where the best electric car cost 80-100k and the volume electric car being the Nissan leaf with subpar charging infrastructure, range, terrible resale value, and battery degradation. Not to mention it looks like an insect with poor performance.

                      If they do the study again from 2018-2025, the story will be much different.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by ua_guy View Post

                        I feel like at this stage in EV adoption, it's still about a commitment to make it work, versus there being an expectation of convenience. 1/5 or 20% switching back is not surprising to me. A lot of people see $$$$ by eliminating their monthly fuel bill and that's what motivates them to purchase, never mind the ROI of an EV can be long. They probably aren't considering the more granular details of charging/recharging, or under-estimate their patience and commitment to making their choice work.

                        I also have no doubt that our infrastructure will become more EV-friendly as time goes on.
                        I agree on all points. Buying an EV is a commitment on a number of levels. It makes perfect sense that a certain percentage of buyers will not be up for that and back out. But that's also the point - for EVs to become the dominant mode of transportation, they need to be less of a commitment. They need to be on par with ICE vehicles. The infrastructure will surely get better. I just don't think that's going to happen significantly by 2030.
                        Steve

                        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Singuy View Post

                          That's a misleading article. The study time period being from 2012-2018 was during a time period where the best electric car cost 80-100k and the volume electric car being the Nissan leaf with subpar charging infrastructure, range, terrible resale value, and battery degradation. Not to mention it looks like an insect with poor performance.

                          If they do the study again from 2018-2025, the story will be much different.
                          Fair point. I did notice the time frame and wondered how much that mattered. I wonder if there is any more recent data. And I wonder why this study was just released.
                          Steve

                          * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                          * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                          * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                            I agree on all points. Buying an EV is a commitment on a number of levels. It makes perfect sense that a certain percentage of buyers will not be up for that and back out. But that's also the point - for EVs to become the dominant mode of transportation, they need to be less of a commitment. They need to be on par with ICE vehicles. The infrastructure will surely get better. I just don't think that's going to happen significantly by 2030.
                            I agree that there are pockets of America where an electric vehicle requires some commitment due to a lack of not only charging stations but a lack of service stations. However the infrastructure is installing at an exponential pace. The problem is legacy auto makers can't make enough cars to be profitable due to a lack of batteries. So the roll out is being determined by production. So far legacy automakers just want to not be penalized by ev credits so they build low volume compliance cars.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                              Fair point. I did notice the time frame and wondered how much that mattered. I wonder if there is any more recent data. And I wonder why this study was just released.
                              Takes awhile to see when people trade in the cars. I still think there are other issues that singuy you won't acknowledge. Lots of people living in cities won't want electric cars until it's super easy to charge. My BIL is a classic case and point. He's able to afford it, but until he buys a place he won't buy a EV because of the hassle of charging.
                              LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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                                #75
                                Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post
                                Lots of people living in cities won't want electric cars until it's super easy to charge.
                                Yep. I said that earlier. I grew up in Philadelphia. In the 3 houses I lived in there, I wouldn't be able to charge an EV unless they install charging ports all along every residential street. The 4th place I lived was an apartment building so they'd need to install chargers at every space in the parking lot. Can it be done? Sure. Will it be quick or easy or cheap? Not at all.

                                I think EVs are a great option for suburban drivers who park in their own driveway or garage and have modest commutes to work. Urban folks not so much, at least not yet.
                                Steve

                                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                                Comment

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