Banning gas cars?

[bjl584]

Over 80% of the people charge their cars at home. I know it's not easy for people living in skyrises but it's very very cheap to put in 220v chargers at every parking spot in a parking garage(cost 100 bucks a piece).

Any stats on average increase to the electric bill for the folks charging their cars at home?
I know that anything 240v will spin my meter to the stratosphere.

I have seen the setups where you can link the Tesla solar panel banks to a home charger making charging the car basically free, after paying for the solar panels and battery pack of course.
That sort of a set up would definitely interest me if I was going the electric car route.

[ua_guy]

Battery swapping is actually a gigantic waste of resources and cash drain for ev companies because

1. You need 2 batteries for every car sold when battery production is the rate limited step for every company

2. You need operators and multiple car wash looking battery swapping stations per location which is both insanely expensive to build out. If you do the math comparing to a Tesla supercharging station with 60 stalls(which are now being build out), it takes 25 mins to charge 60 cars while it takes 8 mins to swap out a battery for 1 car. So the output rate of a battery swapping station is only 7.5 cars/hour, while at a tesla charging station it's 144 cars/hour, which means you need about 20 swapping stations just to do what one supercharger stop needs to do. And this 20 swapping station requires at least 150 batteries stored to be charged just to keep up with the swap rate. So think about the capex of this entire operation vs 10-15k/stall installed from Tesla

3. You can't do structural battery pack therefore your car will have more weight and less range.

Over 80% of the people charge their cars at home. I know it's not easy for people living in skyrises but it's very very cheap to put in 220v chargers at every parking spot in a parking garage(cost 100 bucks a piece).

People also need to realize that their house or anywhere there's an outlet is a gas station now. You only need to charge at a charing station to get to an outlet. If I want a 50 mile buffer to get home, I just charge for 5 mins. I have never charged my car to full, just what I need.

That's great for Tesla and the use of Supercharging stations. It's my understanding that other EV brands would need to find alternative options, or take a back seat in priority and functionality in order to use Tesla's stations. In any EV mandate, there needs to be infrastructure for all EV's, not just a specific manufacturer. There is a lot of work to do there, yet.

[disneysteve]

That's great for Tesla and the use of Supercharging stations. It's my understanding that other EV brands would need to find alternative options, or take a back seat in priority and functionality in order to use Tesla's stations. In any EV mandate, there needs to be infrastructure for all EV's, not just a specific manufacturer. There is a lot of work to do there, yet.

Exactly. They need to somehow standardize the charging infrastructure. Imagine if every gas vehicle had a different way to fill the tank.

[Singuy]

Exactly. They need to somehow standardize the charging infrastructure. Imagine if every gas vehicle had a different way to fill the tank.

This is because a gas tank is just a tank, and gas is just fluid that fills this tanks. This is very much an analog system while charging is a digital system. There needs to be communication and handshake, analyzing charge state and how different batteries/capacitors can handle how much charge at what temperature so it wouldn't damage the battery or cause a fire. Because every manufacture makes different battery management systems with different specs, the chargers that are not Tesla specific needs to deal with this compatibility problem.

So universal compatibility is great, but it's not the easiest thing to implement.

[Singuy]

Any stats on average increase to the electric bill for the folks charging their cars at home?
I know that anything 240v will spin my meter to the stratosphere.

I have seen the setups where you can link the Tesla solar panel banks to a home charger making charging the car basically free, after paying for the solar panels and battery pack of course.
That sort of a set up would definitely interest me if I was going the electric car route.

Batteries are charged in KW.

So if a car need to charge 75KW because it has a 75KWH battery, then you just need to figure out how much utility charges per KW(you can find that on your bill). It's usually 10-13 cents/KW plus fuel charges..however that's figured out.

So in this case expect to pay about 8 dollars for a complete charge, plus maybe 2 dollars worth of fuel charges...for about 330 miles of range(Tesla)...or 240 miles of range(for other branded evs with 75kw batteries)

Of course if you buy just a tiny solar system (say a 4kw system), you'll have this all paid for by the SUN

[disneysteve]

So universal compatibility is great, but it's not the easiest thing to implement.

Are the current charging locations compatible with all EVs? I’ve seen the occasional charging location in a parking lot. Can any EV owner use that? I’ve also seen a Tesla charging location. Are those only for Tesla or can they be used by any EV?

[Singuy]

Are the current charging locations compatible with all EVs? I’ve seen the occasional charging location in a parking lot. Can any EV owner use that? I’ve also seen a Tesla charging location. Are those only for Tesla or can they be used by any EV?

It seems that CCS is the charging standard the US have adopted that all cars not a Tesla are utilizing.

Tesla chargers are for Tesla only although we heard there maybe an adapter coming for others? The thing is Tesla has no problem sharing their chargers but they don't want to spend extra time catering to other manufacturers when they want to be out of spec. So Tesla fixed their compatibility problem by being like Apple and having the auto team work next to the charger team and having everything running on one OS for one platform being their in-house cars.

Other manufacturers rather punt this to other private companies or the government to deal with the issue
And because it's usually a third party company, their charging rate is sometimes double what Tesla charges just to be profitable.

[disneysteve]

It seems that CCS is the charging standard the US have adopted that all cars not a Tesla are utilizing.

Tesla chargers are for Tesla

So Tesla chargers are only for Teslas and other chargers are for every other EV? I guess that’s not too bad when you’re out and about as long as both kinds are abundant.

The problem will be residential charging. When I lived in Philly there were about 60 houses on each block, 30 per side. So if we go all EV, you’d need 60 chargers per block that can charge any car. And there are hundreds and hundreds of blocks of streets like that just in Philadelphia alone. The number needed nationwide is huge.

[ua_guy]

So Tesla chargers are only for Teslas and other chargers are for every other EV? I guess that’s not too bad when you’re out and about as long as both kinds are abundant.

The problem will be residential charging. When I lived in Philly there were about 60 houses on each block, 30 per side. So if we go all EV, you’d need 60 chargers per block that can charge any car. And there are hundreds and hundreds of blocks of streets like that just in Philadelphia alone. The number needed nationwide is huge.

Just spitballing here, but for those who can have a residential charger, it makes sense to install one. But people haven't historically installed gas stations in their front yard for their ICE vehicles. I think Tesla has the right idea here with charging "stations", but that is building completely new infrastructure. In crowded areas, that means purchasing potentially expensive land and/or expensive leases to install equipment on others' property. If range starts going well into 300-500 miles for EV's, and charging time at maximum power for enough time produces a meaningful extension of range, then maybe having it plugged in at home isn't a necessity.

You'd think with how strong the EV tide is rolling in, and how hard hit oil prices have been because of the pandemic that *someone* would offer EV charging as part of their existing network of fueling stations, grocery stores, or even grocery store fueling locations. Of course, it might not be a good idea to put the EV charger and fuel nozzle next to each other (*zap*), but this seems like a really ripe opportunity for someone to lead the way.

[Singuy]

So Tesla chargers are only for Teslas and other chargers are for every other EV? I guess that’s not too bad when you’re out and about as long as both kinds are abundant.

The problem will be residential charging. When I lived in Philly there were about 60 houses on each block, 30 per side. So if we go all EV, you’d need 60 chargers per block that can charge any car. And there are hundreds and hundreds of blocks of streets like that just in Philadelphia alone. The number needed nationwide is huge.

Residential chargers are usual a 220v and does not require massive infrastructure change. It also doesn't require handshake and all that because it's relatively a slow charger(full in 5hrs) vs the commercial fast chargers that can damage a car if it's not set up properly via software.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Batteries are charged in KW.

So if a car need to charge 75KW because it has a 75KWH battery, then you just need to figure out how much utility charges per KW(you can find that on your bill). It's usually 10-13 cents/KW plus fuel charges..however that's figured out.

So in this case expect to pay about 8 dollars for a complete charge, plus maybe 2 dollars worth of fuel charges...for about 330 miles of range(Tesla)...or 240 miles of range(for other branded evs with 75kw batteries)

Of course if you buy just a tiny solar system (say a 4kw system), you'll have this all paid for by the SUN

Kinda hard to have solar energy when you don't have the sun. Just saying....that some places solar panels don't even make sense for a house. I'm not sure for a car it'll work. Also we park in a driveway but I know many people including my cousin crowding into a house and the roommates and partners are not parking in driveway. Hard to charge electric vehicle overnight. Of course none of these people out of college and broke have an electric car. Too expensive still. Until $10k or $5k car market for used EV take off a lot of people starting out won't have the ability to pay. Not when you have student loans, apartment deposits, etc.

[disneysteve]

Residential chargers are usual a 220v and does not require massive infrastructure change. It also doesn't require handshake and all that because it's relatively a slow charger(full in 5hrs).

It requires a tremendous infrastructure change. Every single block of homes needs up to 60 charging ports installed along the street where cars are parked. You don’t park near your house in the city. You park on the street.

[Singuy]

It requires a tremendous infrastructure change. Every single block of homes needs up to 60 charging ports installed along the street where cars are parked. You don’t park near your house in the city. You park on the street.

It's as much of an infrastructure challenge as putting parking meters at ever space on city streets, except it's cheaper. Parking meter are not exactly running on no power.

[Singuy]

Kinda hard to have solar energy when you don't have the sun. Just saying....that some places solar panels don't even make sense for a house. I'm not sure for a car it'll work. Also we park in a driveway but I know many people including my cousin crowding into a house and the roommates and partners are not parking in driveway. Hard to charge electric vehicle overnight. Of course none of these people out of college and broke have an electric car. Too expensive still. Until $10k or $5k car market for used EV take off a lot of people starting out won't have the ability to pay. Not when you have student loans, apartment deposits, etc.

Are you saying that your garage is full of stuff therefore you park on the driveway? That's a personal problem and can be fixed. Also you can always use an extension cord. I do that at my inlaws.

Solar can still gather power on cloudy days, just at 1/3 the efficiency. So unless we are talking about places where it's night time for half a year like Alaska or something, a small unit can gather enough for a daily commute of the US average of 40 miles.

[disneysteve]

It's as much of an infrastructure challenge as putting parking meters at ever space on city streets

That would be a massive infrastructure challenge too. I can't imagine what that would cost and how long it would take. And parking meters can be mechanical or solar powered. You just stick them in the ground and you're set. I'm assuming EV chargers would actually need to be wired to the electric grid so far more involved and costly than parking meters.

I'm not saying this couldn't be done but it would take decades to make that transition. Most cities are broke now. How are they going to fund all of that work? I guess the Fed would have to pay for it somehow.