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    #76
    Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

    Takes awhile to see when people trade in the cars. I still think there are other issues that singuy you won't acknowledge. Lots of people living in cities won't want electric cars until it's super easy to charge. My BIL is a classic case and point. He's able to afford it, but until he buys a place he won't buy a EV because of the hassle of charging.
    I agree it's a challenge for dense city folks. But I also think it's a challenge to get dense city folks to buy a car period as parking is essentially nonexistent, cost a boatload, and public transportation is decent. So people who are willing to buy a car in dense areas are already putting up with inconveniences for that ability to drive.

    Type in Tesla super charger in Google maps under Philadelphia. You'll be surprised how many there are vs the amount of market share they have vs gas stations there. This number is going to double again in 18 months.

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      #77
      Originally posted by Singuy View Post
      I also think it's a challenge to get dense city folks to buy a car period as parking is essentially nonexistent, cost a boatload, and public transportation is decent.
      At least in the case of Philly, that description only fits a very specific section of the city. Where I lived, street parking is free and plentiful. It's just not necessarily near your house. And everybody owns a car, or two, or three. Public transit isn't a viable means for much of anything you need to do.

      Type in Tesla super charger in Google maps under Philadelphia. You'll be surprised how many there are.
      You made me curious so I did just that. It looks like there are 2 in the entire city so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Also, both are in the downtown area, nowhere near where most people live.
      Steve

      * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
      * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
      * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
        At least in the case of Philly, that description only fits a very specific section of the city. Where I lived, street parking is free and plentiful. It's just not necessarily near your house. And everybody owns a car, or two, or three. Public transit isn't a viable means for much of anything you need to do.


        You made me curious so I did just that. It looks like there are 2 in the entire city so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Also, both are in the downtown area, nowhere near where most people live.
        Sorry that was my fault. I didn't know how to look at the scale of philly so it showed me more than it should, plus destination chargers. Looks like there are a bunch of blink charging stations but no idea if that's where people live or not.

        Anyways, the market share is tiny for EVs and currently 63% of all housing units have a garage or carport that can support home charging. So the infrastructure overhaul will focus mainly on places like Philly or NYC, not every inch of the U.S. We gave every housing unit fiber optic high speed internet and high voltage power already in places like philly. It's not a huge deal to give every parking spot a 220v. I mean there are street lights lamp post everywhere but no one thought "oh man that was a gigantic infrastructure overhaul" just to add street lamps.

        Fact #958: January 2, 2017 Sixty-three percent of all Housing Units have a Garage or Carport | Department of Energy
        Last edited by Singuy; 05-04-2021, 12:46 PM.

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          #79
          Originally posted by Singuy View Post

          Sorry that was my fault. I didn't know how to look at the scale of philly so it showed me more than it should, plus destination chargers. Looks like there are a bunch of blink charging stations but no idea if that's where people live or not.

          Anyways, the market share is tiny for EVs and currently 63% of all housing units have a garage or carport that can support home charging. So the infrastructure overhaul will focus mainly on places like Philly or NYC, not every inch of the U.S. We gave every housing unit fiber optic high speed internet and high voltage power already in places like philly. It's not a huge deal to give every parking spot a 220v. I mean there are street lights lamp post everywhere but no one thought "oh man that was a gigantic infrastructure overhaul" just to add street lamps.

          Fact #958: January 2, 2017 Sixty-three percent of all Housing Units have a Garage or Carport | Department of Energy
          There are 2 tesla superchargers as well where i live in the city. outside the city there are 2.

          Either way 63% of houses have a garage or carport? Well one would argue my cousin and BIL both live in housing units with garage and carport. Neither has a dedicated spot to EV charging. They have to move their car from their garage spots and are called to change it out. One her boyfriend did it but he used to own a condo so he paid a private spot for EV charging. Too bad they moved into a rental that it doesn't happen. BIL same thing. Oh and both are in high rises with lots of garage parking...so that 63% number seems a bit delusional. Also I also know my city does not have a lot of fiber optic. It's being put in but the first rental we moved into in 2015 didn't even have cable internet. We had to call and have it put in. The previous renters used Centurylink satellite. This is a suburb of a major city. Again I'm calling false on this 100% fiber optic.

          I bet even on here not everyone has fiber. And people on a message board are probably overall more educated, above average income than the norm...they also more likely live in cities (less rural) and they live more affluent than average.

          That
          LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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            #80
            Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

            There are 2 tesla superchargers as well where i live in the city. outside the city there are 2.

            Either way 63% of houses have a garage or carport? Well one would argue my cousin and BIL both live in housing units with garage and carport. Neither has a dedicated spot to EV charging. They have to move their car from their garage spots and are called to change it out. One her boyfriend did it but he used to own a condo so he paid a private spot for EV charging. Too bad they moved into a rental that it doesn't happen. BIL same thing. Oh and both are in high rises with lots of garage parking...so that 63% number seems a bit delusional. Also I also know my city does not have a lot of fiber optic. It's being put in but the first rental we moved into in 2015 didn't even have cable internet. We had to call and have it put in. The previous renters used Centurylink satellite. This is a suburb of a major city. Again I'm calling false on this 100% fiber optic.

            I bet even on here not everyone has fiber. And people on a message board are probably overall more educated, above average income than the norm...they also more likely live in cities (less rural) and they live more affluent than average.

            That
            Did you just debunked the official data from the government of 63% by using some anecdotal evidence?

            Where I live there are 7 supercharging locations now, doubled since 2018. They are building more and more but it absolutely does not make any sense to have even 1/10th of the numbers vs gas stations when 1 out of 10 cars are not a Tesla. Ratio wise, there's more than enough charging stations. But if you want one from walking distance from where YOU live, then that's not gonna happen for awhile.

            Watch charging stations double and then double again by 2025, then x4-6x by 2030. By the time they pry your ICE car out of your cold dead hands, you wouldn't be inconvenienced.
            Last edited by Singuy; 05-04-2021, 03:38 PM.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

              Either way 63% of houses have a garage or carport? Well one would argue my cousin and BIL both live in housing units with garage and carport.
              Yeah, that 63% number might be technically true, but it doesn't mean what you might think.

              Most row homes in Philadelphia have a garage. I lived there for 28 years. I don't think I knew a single person who put a car in the garage. The garages were much too small. You could usually park one car outside of the garage, so you could charge one there. As I said earlier, my family had at least 3 cars and had 4 for a while, but only had a dedicated spot for one.


              I'm calling false on this 100% fiber optic.
              Singuy didn't say everyone had fiber. He said "We gave every housing unit fiber optic high speed internet and high voltage power already in places like philly." That's true. Some areas are fully wired (or is it 'fibered').

              Originally posted by Singuy
              I mean there are street lights lamp post everywhere but no one thought "oh man that was a gigantic infrastructure overhaul" just to add street lamps.
              Good point. Obviously the wiring already exists down every street. They just need to install 50 or 60 charging ports on every single block of row homes in the city. Compare that to maybe 4 or 5 street lamps per block. It's a big project no matter how you look at it.
              Last edited by disneysteve; 05-04-2021, 03:45 PM.
              Steve

              * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
              * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
              * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Singuy View Post

                But if you want one from walking distance from where YOU live, then that's not gonna happen for awhile.
                That's the 'chicken and egg' problem. People don't want to buy an EV if they don't have a convenient way to charge it at home but companies don't want to install more chargers if there aren't that many EV owners in the area.
                Steve

                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                  That's the 'chicken and egg' problem. People don't want to buy an EV if they don't have a convenient way to charge it at home but companies don't want to install more chargers if there aren't that many EV owners in the area.
                  Yes, this chicken and the egg problem is going to be addressed in due time now that the government is putting out the cash for charging stations.

                  However, there's way too much demand just to serve mid size or smaller cities with robust garages/suburbs. The U.S sells 17 million cars, electric is only 0.5% of that number which took a decade of time to get there. The majority of the 17 million number/year are from suburb citizens vs dense inner city folks. So as batteries ramp up, it will continue on to take market share from the 17 million. For those who thinks EVs are an inconvenience where you live, that's currently by design due to how it's rolled out. Auto makers and charging infrastructure are not focusing on your area of town because you as a customer is not yet needed to satisfy demand.

                  Now I don't think we can fully ban ICE by 2030. There's not enough batteries to get to that number. Looking around at the scale in which other car manufactures are promising to make by 2030, we are talking about 100-200gwh which is not even close/major brand. Tesla is aiming for 2 terra watt hours by 2030 and they say it's going to replace at best 20% of the world's new cars.
                  Last edited by Singuy; 05-04-2021, 03:58 PM.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    How long does it take to fully charge at a Tesla Supercharger? I realize that depends on how low your charge is I suppose.
                    Steve

                    * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                    * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                    * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Singuy View Post

                      Yes, this chicken and the egg problem is going to be addressed in due time now that the government is putting out the cash for charging stations.
                      I would think it would have to be government money or some sort of public-private partnership. The chargers need to go on public property, city streets, municipal parking lots, etc. A private company can't just come in and do that work.
                      Steve

                      * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                      * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                      * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
                        How long does it take to fully charge at a Tesla Supercharger? I realize that depends on how low your charge is I suppose.
                        At a V3 supercharger

                        30 miles ->200 miles in about 10 mins
                        200 miles->300 miles take another 10 mins
                        300 miles->350 miles take another 10 mins

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                          #87
                          Originally posted by Singuy View Post

                          At a V3 supercharger

                          30 miles ->200 miles in about 10 mins
                          200 miles->300 miles take another 10 mins
                          300 miles->350 miles take another 10 mins
                          Are you saying going from 30 miles range left to 200 miles takes 10 minutes? Then going from 200 to 300 takes another 10, and from 300 to 350 another 10? I just want to make sure I understand those numbers correctly.
                          Steve

                          * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                          * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                          * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                            Are you saying going from 30 miles range left to 200 miles takes 10 minutes? Then going from 200 to 300 takes another 10, and from 300 to 350 another 10? I just want to make sure I understand those numbers correctly.
                            Yes. Battery charge rate tapers off as it becomes full to protect the battery.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by Singuy View Post

                              Yes. Battery charge rate tapers off as it becomes full to protect the battery.
                              Understood.

                              So is 350 considered a full charge? In other words, to charge from close to "empty" to "full" would take 30 minutes at a supercharger.
                              Steve

                              * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                              * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                              * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                                Understood.

                                So is 350 considered a full charge? In other words, to charge from close to "empty" to "full" would take 30 minutes at a supercharger.
                                Correct, well depends on the car you buy. A model S is full at 415 miles but a Model 3 is 350.

                                Most people don't charge a car to full because it's best to utilize the charge curve for the first 15 mins vs the last 15 mins. However if you are grabbing a bite to eat or watch some netflix then guess you wouldn't mind charging to full.

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