Should struggling families tithe?

[GaryArnold]

Matthew 25:31-46 (NIV)
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Notice Jesus didn't say anything about giving to the church.

[Seeker]

People should give as best they are able and willing to give; of thier income or of their "time" or whatever makes them feel okay with their complete role in life.

IMO, when you have zero income and cannot sustain a roof over your families head, then you are not truly in a position to "tithe" or "give" unless the person(s) you are giving to, are indeed worse off than you or your family.

In response to a poster about giving to non-church entities, I don't believe that God would frown upon that giving. If someone is in need, and you want to give to that person, and do give, then I have no doubt that that is a "good" giving. To forgive a debt is a good giving. These are people-to-people transactions and real-life issues.

We are here to learn, to share, and to live. We are all human, we all make mistakes.

If you give because you want to, and it harms no one you are responsible for, then give.

If you give because you want to, and it lessens what you can provide for your own family in basic needs, then IMO you are rather uncaring of your duties as a husband, father, and provider. IMO, that is not honorable.

I do not portend to know what God wants. I cannot understand His reality.

To me, God exists in every living thing on this planet, somehow. He needs nothing that I could give Him; He is beyond the here and now, whereas this is where we exist.

To me, what I can give financially on this world in which we exist with boundaries, is limited, therefore me and DH make judgements (maybe unworthily) and choices as to where, who, and how much to "give."

To me, God knows the measure of my honor and respect for Him, as the Creator of all life in this physical time-bound world.

To me, God (I hope) understands that I believe that real people exist (and especially children), whom have a "basic need" that is not being met. This will ALWAYS be of more importance to me, than contributing to an already viable and rich Church in this country (which may be different if there were readily available means to assure that 100% of my dollars could go to the needy places of other parts of the world, and not line some other corrupted human's pockets or some other entity that is not in true life "need").

Do you people really believe that we honor God, by offering monies to Him?

Do you really think He does not know whether or not we honor and respect who He is and what He's constantly doing in sustaining life and regrowing it from all the death and decay that is in this world?

Monies are valuable to us, not to Him.

When you have no money or income, do you think that you've lost something that God wants or needs?

Do you suddenly lose your "honoring" or respecting of God?

What parent among you wants money from their child?

What parent amoung you would not enjoy watching your child give money to another physical hungry child that he or she encountered in the real world?

What we give and how we give to the people who need it, it all counts.

But, IMO, any father (or head-of-family) who would rather idealistically tithe to the Church, when his families' very roof over their heads stands to be lost, is IMO sorely mistaken as to his priorities. I would not choose to "give" to such a person.

[maat55]

Disclaimer: I had mentioned that Dave Ramsey leans toward not tithing while getting out of financial hardship. I do not wish to imply that he advocates this or that he personally avoided tithing during his financial hardship. He has mentioned many times that he is faithful in tithing and the the tithe is one of many acts of faith.

I myself have tithed and not tithed in my life. I used to think that tithing alone would decide whether my business prospered or not. What I have learned over the last 20 years is that I had good and bad times not depending on whether I was tithing at the time or not.

I also, believe that tithing alone does not mean you will prosper. If you use poor judgement in personal finances and character, you will find hardship.

I have two notable times in my life where I believe I have been blessed supernaturally. Once when I was in need of a new van, a van was parked directly across the street(in a neighborhood and not owned by the house it was parked)during the completion of a job that provided enough extra funds to purchase it.

Second was when I awoke at 4 am compelled to go into my shop right then. I have never been to my shop at five o'clock before then or since. When I arrived, my shop was beginning to fill with smoke. I called the fire-department and they found smoldering wood dust next to a space heater not turned off by an employee. I suffered no smoke or fire damage.

Do I believe people should tithed while in hardship? Well, as someone who may have someone owe them money at sometime, and when the note is due, they only have enough to buy their basic needs, I will not expect them to pay me and I may forgive the note.

[KTP]

It has been many years for me since Sunday school, but wasn't there something along the lines of "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”

Based on this, are your Visa bill and Wells Fargo mortgage God's or Caesars? If you get to the point where it is either tithe or pay your mortgage, wouldn't it be against God's will to not render unto Wells Fargo that which is Wells Fargo's?

Just curious how this fits in.

[GaryArnold]

Correct, though being a member of our temple's Finance committee and knowing the costs involved in running the place, if folks want to start tithing, that would be okay with me.

You sure you want a tenth of the crops and animals raised on the Holy land? OR, were you referring to the tradition of man to give a tenth of their income? (Of course I know the answer!)

[disneysteve]

A bit of drift here but do you think those who cannot afford to feed, clothe or provide shelter for their families and are on government assistance should tithe?

No, but I'm sure others will disagree.

[tcpete]

A bit of drift here but do you think those who cannot afford to feed, clothe or provide shelter for their families and are on government assistance should tithe?

[disneysteve]

And being Jewish, you also don't tithe

Correct, though being a member of our temple's Finance committee and knowing the costs involved in running the place, if folks want to start tithing, that would be okay with me.

[GaryArnold]

Being Jewish, we don't study the New Testament....

And being Jewish, you also don't tithe because you know there is to Temple and no Levitical priesthood to support. You know that the tithe can ONLY be taken to Levites. Right?

Isn't it amazing how so-called Christian leaders have taken God's commands and changed them to fit their own circumstances? And these same Christian leaders, who are misrepresenting God's Word actually think they are getting away with it! Maybe they have fooled their congregations, but they haven't fooled God.

[disneysteve]

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving

Being Jewish, we don't study the New Testament, but I like this idea much more than tithing a flat 10%. We believe that you should give an amount that is significant to you. That is exactly what we promote in our congregation. For out High Holy Day pledge drive each year, we tell people that if they can afford $5, give $5. If they can afford $50, give $50. And if they can afford $500, give $500. We don't expect a percentage of income because everyone's circumstances are different. Someone with large student loans and an entry-level job won't be able to afford the same percentage of income as an empty-nest couple well established in their careers. Lower income people also spend a larger percentage of income on necessities which are often relatively fixed - gas for the car, utilities, health insurance, etc. Higher wage earners have (or usually have) more disposable income and thus more money available for giving.

[GaryArnold]

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

Being blessed as I have been, and being Spirit led, I find myself giving far more than a mere tenth of my income. Now if the Spirit led me to give exactly a tenth of my income, that is what I would do. But nowhere in God's Word does it say or infer that when we give to a church we are giving to God. We are giving to pay the bills of the church. It is church leaders that say giving to the church is giving to God, not the scriptures.

To follow the tithing commands in the Bible, one would have to give an average of 20% a year, not 10%. The three tithes averaged out to exactly 20% over a 7-year period. So those who believe you are under the tithing commands, why do you limit your tithe to only 10%? Why do you ignore the other two Biblical tithes?

[ThePennyHoarder]

What about tithing your time? Perhaps you could give away 10% of your week to volunteering. Just an idea...

[disneysteve]

For most situations, it's far too easy to say, "just stop giving to the church to free up some cash." Instead of dealing with the real issues of "you cannot afford your car", "you cannot afford your house," "you are spending way too much on food and shoes and your cell phone and are blaming your lack of money on the tithe - when it's actually your spending habits." etc.

I agree with this 100%. I never suggest cutting out the tithe first. The other stuff - expensive car, cell phones, cable TV, dining out and all other luxuries should go FIRST. If that still isn't enough, then the tithe should be on the table.

[jpg7n16]

Exactly. Of course, this topic comes up here periodically because someone posts their situation and that they are in debt, maybe unemployed, facing foreclosure, whatever. Then they list their budget and it includes a big chunk of money for a tithe. It is only natural that some of us, in responding to the OP, might suggest reconsidering the tithe given the overall situation. Some people will be open to the suggestion. Other people consider the tithe non-negotiable no matter how bad their finances are.

I guess I'd be one of those "other people" then.

For most situations, it's far too easy to say, "just stop giving to the church to free up some cash." Instead of dealing with the real issues of "you cannot afford your car", "you cannot afford your house," "you are spending way too much on food and shoes and your cell phone and are blaming your lack of money on the tithe - when it's actually your spending habits." etc.

Obivously you can get out of debt faster when 10% of your income isn't going to the church, but money isn't everything.


Plus a lot of people think that any discretionary giving, if given to the church makes it a tithe. Which is not true either. If someone make $2000 a month and is giving $500 to the church and calling it their "tithe"; they're just mistaken. $200 is tithe, $300 is discretionary giving. And if they're struggling to make ends meet, they should back down to just the $200, and take a good hard look at their expenses.

[SnoopyCool]

This thread reminds me of Footloose.