Should struggling families tithe?

[nick__45]

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

Being blessed as I have been, and being Spirit led, I find myself giving far more than a mere tenth of my income. Now if the Spirit led me to give exactly a tenth of my income, that is what I would do. But nowhere in God's Word does it say or infer that when we give to a church we are giving to God. We are giving to pay the bills of the church. It is church leaders that say giving to the church is giving to God, not the scriptures.

To follow the tithing commands in the Bible, one would have to give an average of 20% a year, not 10%. The three tithes averaged out to exactly 20% over a 7-year period. So those who believe you are under the tithing commands, why do you limit your tithe to only 10%? Why do you ignore the other two Biblical tithes?

I agree with the bold text.

[nick__45]

I agree with this 100%. I never suggest cutting out the tithe first. The other stuff - expensive car, cell phones, cable TV, dining out and all other luxuries should go FIRST. If that still isn't enough, then the tithe should be on the table.

I am one of a few people that would openly agree with you. I don't tithe because I give much more than 10%, just not the church middleman false lords. I give directly to the people. I give free oil change to single mothers and buy toys for children all the time. We also give free haircuts, meals, and any service our business handle. It cut out the middle men. Additionally, we pay a lot of money in tax and that goes toward helping/enabling other people, here and abroad.

[nick__45]

I guess I'd be one of those "other people" then.

For most situations, it's far too easy to say, "just stop giving to the church to free up some cash." Instead of dealing with the real issues of "you cannot afford your car", "you cannot afford your house," "you are spending way too much on food and shoes and your cell phone and are blaming your lack of money on the tithe - when it's actually your spending habits." etc.

Obivously you can get out of debt faster when 10% of your income isn't going to the church, but money isn't everything.


Plus a lot of people think that any discretionary giving, if given to the church makes it a tithe. Which is not true either. If someone make $2000 a month and is giving $500 to the church and calling it their "tithe"; they're just mistaken. $200 is tithe, $300 is discretionary giving. And if they're struggling to make ends meet, they should back down to just the $200, and take a good hard look at their expenses.

Are you sure money isn't everything? It is the form of tithe that is acceptable and non-negotiable?

[nick__45]

With the holidays upon us, something I have been wondering about is tithing and charity. If I donate money or food to the foodbank, would that count towards tithe? The money is not going to my home church, however it is benefiting God's kingdom. I became a believer about a year ago, and I don't think I would have the heart to donate without that event happening.

Any thoughts?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. IT IS ONLY TITHE WHEN YOU GIVE CASH, CHECK WILL DO BUT NO SILLY GIFT CARD, TO YOUR MORTAL LORDS. IT IS PERFECTLY OK AND OFTEN ENCOURAGE TO NOT LET THE 10 PERCENT BARRIER TO PREVENT YOU TO GIVE MORE. IF WE LET YOU GET AWAY FROM TITHE BY BEAN COUNTING EVERY NICKLE AND DIME YOU TOSS OUT, WHAT PREVENT HIS CHILDREN OF THE LAW TO COUNT THEIR TIME VOLUNTEER AS TITHE. THINK ABOUT IT. J. COCHRAN WOULD FULFILL HIS TITHE SERVITUDE OBLIGATION BY SHOWING UP TO CHIT CHAT WITH THE LORD'S BLACK SHEEPS STANDING IN THE SOUP LINE.

[nick__45]

But as far as answering "does the Church NEED this tithe?" Absolutely not. But that has nothing to do with it. The temple did not NEED the widow's two coins. But how else would she honor God with what He had given her? Jesus commended the woman for her faith in God - that He would be able to provide for her, though she didn't know how.

If the widow only has two coins to rub, her God has not given her ****. Sorry but that is the truth that some of you need to hear even if it hurts.

[nick__45]

The old testement spells it out for those of you who are christian. It's tiring to watch people twist this verse around to make it their own. I am not very good at this myself and definetly work at it. I don't feel that I have the right to answer for another Christian except to say that you have already answered your question.

Numbers 18:26

26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering.

Can you explain that versus for me in plain English? I don't have or know any Jew that would give me money nor would I take his money without offering something in return.

[nick__45]

I give a minimum of 50% tips when I go to restaurants/bars. I take care of His children who are less fortunate than me. That is all He ask of me. I drive a extremely old but efficient vehicle so there shall be more resource left for all of His children. That is all He ask of me. I work hard to take care of myself and my family. That is all He ask of me.

All my God ask of me is to accept him as Lord and Savior. All He expect from me is to love him and his other children as He would himself love me. He never mention money.

[jpg7n16]

JPG - I'm curious to hear your response to maat55's question earlier. If you are out of work and barely making ends meet with whatever part-time work you are able to pick up and tithing 10% of the little you are earning would keep you from paying everything, would you continue to tithe even if it meant going into debt to do so? If keeping the lights on would mean charging the bill to your CC when the tithe money would be enough to cover it, do you still tithe and take on the debt?

DS - bear with me, cause this is how my mind tried to work through it.

Let's see. So if you take on part-time jobs, you're by definition not working 40 hours. So maybe 25 hours a week. At say $10 an hour. $250/week for a month is $1000 for the month. Then you'd have taxes taken out. Leaving maybe $850 or 900 for the month. (if tithing, leaving 765 or 810)

Depending on your expenses, if rent were $700, it's not possible to avoid debt whether I do or do not tithe. If you're trying to save your house with a mortgage payment of $800, it's not possible to avoid debt, tithe or not. And the tithe wouldn't be the problem, the rent/mortgage costs would.

{edit for clarification: what I'm attempting to say is that the problem of this scenario is not that 10% of their income is going to the tithe, the problem is that at least 700/900 = 77.78% of their income is going to housing expense, well above the recommended 28%. In order to justify paying rent of $700, there must be a reasonable expectation of post tax income of $2500 or greater. If that income stream does not exist, then $700 is too much, regardless of whether they tithe or not; and is the primary cause of any debt incurred during that time period}

On such a salary, the financial guidelines for rent costs are $238/month. (28%) If you were able to rent for that amount (through taking on roommates, moving in with family/friends, etc.) then there is no need for debt to pay for food, or utilities.

But if you only made $400 a month, that extra $40 wouldn't enable you to avoid debt.


So in order to argue for or against a person 'going into debt' because of the tithe (not because of something else); I'd first have to be able to create a scenario where that were possible, but I can't think of one. It's easy to say it exists, but it's not easy to create such a scenario existing.


Can you create a scenario with actual numbers that would show a family needing to go into debt over a light bill, because of them tithing?
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Or I could argue that you're already in debt on the home. A mortgage is debt. So does God not approve of your mortgage either? Or if you got laid off due to an illness, and you can't afford to pay your medical bills somehow - medical bills are already debt, so you're already in debt.

Now true, maybe you wouldn't be in as much debt if you didn't tithe while income was down, but we're talking $40-80 of debt a month. If you think that you'd incur $200 of debt each month, then you'd have $2000 of after-tax income, which would enable you to pay reasonable rent, and lights and food - thus the scenario 'light bill vs tithe' wouldn't really exist.

You would also be in much less debt if you bought a cheaper home, to the tune of $1000's of debt. You would have to incur debt by tithing on $800/month of income for just over 5 years (62.5 months) to equal the same amount of debt incurred on $5000 extra on a home.

The effect of the tithe on incurring debt is so minimal, that it's not worth skipping tithing to me.

Is there ever any circumstance that you can envision where you would accept not paying the full tithe? From all you've posted, I'm guessing the answer is no.

I really can't think of one.

it has been a long thread.

Yes. Yes it has

Much longer than I thought it'd turn out to be for sure! But part of that was me being too argumentative, and I kinda spurred on about 3 or 4 of these pages - when I probably shouldn't have. I'm working on fixing that about myself

[GaryArnold]

The windows of heaven have certainly been opened.

Here also, as it has been raining today. You know that is what God is talking about, don't you? Pouring out a blessing meant RAIN. Nothing else. Get a Hebrew dictionary and look it up.

[ddavis]

It's really up to the family, but as for myself I would say yes. Tithing always comes first - 10% off the top, then I work from there. I have always paid tithing since 8 years old and I've never gone wrong with this principle. The windows of heaven have certainly been opened.

[maat55]

Unfortunately I must agree with this. If God wanted to make things clear He clearly failed. Or maybe we are stupider than He imagined.

IMO, the Bible has been hijacked much like the Constitution.

[Snodog]

Of course, you are assuming here that anyone truly knows God's word. Or at least you are assuming that the version you adhere to is the "right" version. There are many religions all with their own version of God's word. Heck, even within one religion there are sects with slightly different versions, beliefs and observances. Judaism is a perfect example. Orthodox, Conservative, Reconstructionist and Reform all have the same holy book, the Torah, but there are dramatic differences in interpretation and observance.

Unfortunately I must agree with this. If God wanted to make things clear He clearly failed. Or maybe we are stupider than He imagined.

[disneysteve]

For you nitpickers, are the above giving and honoring God?

Of course they are. They just aren't tithing.

As GaryArnold said, a tithe is a specific, defined form of giving. There are lots of ways to give but only one counts as tithing.

[maat55]

First of all, a tithe is a tenth. If you give 9%, that is not a tithe. If you give 11%, that is not a tithe.

The Biblical tithe belonged to God, and He gave it to the Levites. To give the Biblical tithe, or God's tithe, to anyone other than where God directed would be a sin.

Tithing is not giving to begin with. The Biblical tithe was a PAYMENT.

For you nitpickers, are the above giving and honoring God?

[GaryArnold]

Is giving your adult children money for food, tithing?
Is renovating an adult childs or in-laws house for free, tithing?
Is stopping to help fix a flat for a women on the highway, tithing?
Is seeing to any need of another individual(you are not responsible for), tithing?

IMO, people tithe/give without even thinking about.

First of all, a tithe is a tenth. If you give 9%, that is not a tithe. If you give 11%, that is not a tithe.

The Biblical tithe belonged to God, and He gave it to the Levites. To give the Biblical tithe, or God's tithe, to anyone other than where God directed would be a sin.

Tithing is not giving to begin with. The Biblical tithe was a PAYMENT.