What a day

[jIM_Ohio]

Wife was starting to feel the pinch of 10k in debt. She did not have access to all money- we had 5 bank accounts spread across 2 banks. My checks went to 3 and her checks went to 2 others and one of the ones I used too.

So dealing with 10k of debt on limited funds available was becoming an issue (we had the income to support the 10k, but no one account gets all that income). I know for a fact one of the accounts owed more than was charged (meaning interest was piling up). Wife knew it was an issue as I know she was looking for jobs to work from home a few weeks previous to this (from another discussion on finances).

On Thursday when I discovered the 5k debt things were all right when we discussed it at home. But again learning from past arguments I was holding some opinions and suggested fixes back as to not overwhelm my wife with my financial ideas.

I slept on it Thursday night and had some good ideas to fix it which centered around me running the checkbook. That was a bad suggestion from wife's perspective and the argument was probably the worst one we ever had- and we were having it while taking DS1 to hospital.

Argument ended with wife telling me she would not live with another in control yadda yadda yadda. So I was preparing to be single again and I did a quick "check" of my accounts to make sure I knew how much credit I had if I needed it (and found the balances). The balances were a HUGE surprise.

To make matters worse I did not have the 800 numbers or account numbers. Just knowledge of which banks I had accounts with. I called my discover card (a card I keep in a safe place in my house) and they gave me the numbers to citi and chase- when I called citi and chase I had no account numbers (but I knew my SS#, password and similar). Imagine my surprise when both told me I had the wrong address.

I was the one which confronted my wife about the changed address and she had actually initiated a balance transfer to move debt off of my name onto her name which I found out about when I called wife and told her to bring me my account statements.

I told her I could pay off all the debt and we just need to work on communication... after around 60-120 minutes of discussion that appeared to be a better solution than running away from the problem.

She had always viewed the money I made from soccer as mine. I banked every penny I made and that was the EF. I used to coach for free and then when I got paid it did not change much other than the bank account grew much faster. She did not feel comfortable asking for this money to be used to pay off the cc we both used for car repairs, clothes shopping or similar.

[DebbieL]

I get your point. Listen i'm not here to argue with you about the different types of affairs. It doesn't matter to me how you define cheating versus having an affair. To me is no difference nonewhatsover. Cheating is cheating. Affair is an affair. That's very strong compelling arguments for a divorce versus deceiving the husband for not paying outstanding bills were supposedly paid.

Who's arguing? Nobody has told Jim to divorce his wife that I've seen. I certainly didn't. I do think there is a deep problem with this level of deception, but it's not my business or my relationship.

[jIM_Ohio]

Who's arguing? Nobody has told Jim to divorce his wife that I've seen. I certainly didn't. I do think there is a deep problem with this level of deception, but it's not my business or my relationship.

I think a couple of people here might consider this grounds for divorce... but I am not asking for a vote. Opinions welcome, but I think portions of discussion are somewhat off topic.

I do find the main discussion to be enlightening- for example the suggestion to check credit scores was well received by both me AND my wife. That actually resulted in a good financial conversation for 30 minutes on Sunday morning.

BTW- turns out freecreditreport.com costs $1 per report- not really free.

Little steps towards resolution if you ask me.

[disneysteve]

BTW- turns out freecreditreport.com costs $1 per report- not really free.

Jim, the FREE reports are from annualcreditreport.com. I think to get them free from the other site, you have to sign up for some paid service (which makes them not really free).

[jIM_Ohio]

Jim, the FREE reports are from annualcreditreport.com. I think to get them free from the other site, you have to sign up for some paid service (which makes them not really free).

$2 to see that my credit was not harmed and wife's credit is rapidly improving is money well spent right now.

But free is not really free- big surprise.

[disneysteve]

Argument ended with wife telling me she would not live with another in control

This statement troubles me. Marriage, by its very nature, involves ceding some control. Two people can't come together as a couple and both maintain total control of everything in their lives. It just isn't possible or practical. Only one person can balance the checkbook. I suppose you could take turns each month but that's silly. Only one person can choose and monitor the investments. You can't each be making changes to the same portfolio.

You have to give up some control to live with another person.

[jIM_Ohio]

This statement troubles me. Marriage, by its very nature, involves ceding some control. Two people can't come together as a couple and both maintain total control of everything in their lives. It just isn't possible or practical. Only one person can balance the checkbook. I suppose you could take turns each month but that's silly. Only one person can choose and monitor the investments. You can't each be making changes to the same portfolio.

You have to give up some control to live with another person.

I have no issue giving up control if she controls it correctly. Like pays CC bills in full. I agree with your comments 100%.

[Seeker]

The problem with the "C" word (control) is that it's way too strong. Nobody in this day and age "controls" any other person; unless that other person chooses to give the person control.

This is the US of A... where we are all supposed to be "equal" regardless of tradition/culture or gender. In a marriage, there's a meeting of the two individuals to become one team; this joining is supposed to be beneficial to both. There's supposed to be a "meeting of the minds" -- collaboration and compromise.

From time to time, people say things like "money problems" are the cause of divorce. Sorry, people fighting about money, are really fighting for something else they believe they lack... a fair share, a value of appreciation by the other, a listening SO, a collaboration of what to do for vacation. One feels stress and is not talking to the other... for whatever reason.

Really it all boils down to conversation and understanding and compromise; that's what fails in marriage. Money can be the target of the fight (safer than s/he is being unreasonable), but it's not really the cause.

---

Jim, with the addition of twins to your family, both you and your wife are under a lot of stress. With the probable wake ups that happen during the evening, neither of you are probably getting enough rest and her thinking straight can be part of the problem as well. She probably didn't want more stress in talking with you about these expenses, and dag herself deeper into this CC hole. She's probably considerably relieved that you found out as well.

These events can make a marriage stronger.. if you make it so. Just forgive each other, care for each other, and talk with each other... everything else will fall into place.

[jIM_Ohio]

Jim, with the addition of twins to your family, both you and your wife are under a lot of stress. With the probable wake ups that happen during the evening, neither of you are probably getting enough rest and her thinking straight can be part of the problem as well. She probably didn't want more stress in talking with you about these expenses, and dag herself deeper into this CC hole. She's probably considerably relieved that you found out as well.

No doubt this has some merit to it on more than one level.

DW has already said she feels relieved now that I know.

The hole is filled in- as of 1pm today all cards were paid down to zero.

Picking up the marriage pieces and building back the EF while trying to get some sleep are the priorities now (in no particular order).

[tripods68]

That's good to hear Jim...glad you and your wife is both working it out.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Good to hear things are working out.

DS one could argue in marriage you do not need to cede control ever. Haven't we discussed how couples can keep marriage finances completely in control?

So couples who keep things entirely seperate don't cede control. And if you keep it seperate how can it ever be betraying if you don't share finances? Then it's only answering to yourself.

[Seeker]

Good to hear things are working out.

DS one could argue in marriage you do not need to cede control ever. Haven't we discussed how couples can keep marriage finances completely in control?

So couples who keep things entirely seperate don't cede control. And if you keep it seperate how can it ever be betraying if you don't share finances? Then it's only answering to yourself.

Even if you mix finances, neither party usually gives up "control"; because ultimately, you can regain "control" of what you earn very easily. All it takes is a speaking to your workplace HR and reallocating your paycheck to a separate account if your SO is abusing $'s.

Even if you separate finances and "answer to yourself", the SO can still be betrayed if s/he does not do with the money what is supposed to be done with it. Because in marriage it's a partnership, the collaboration still needs to be there in part to satisfy the SO's feeling of being treated with respect too. His or her opinion of where $'s should or should not be spent is worthy of consideration, even if money is kept separate. Money is a very big part of both their futures.

But I think "control" is probably the wrong word for the meaning of what DisneySteve is trying to present.

The "responsibility" falls to me to pay the bills and manage the money (simply becasue DH does not care enough to do so), and I am the better keeper-tracker of things; the better monitor.

We both "control" because we both discuss $'s that we may want or need to spend outside of our allowances. It's a team effort for our future and a discussion or collaboration ; and we communicate and understand why we need to "wait now" or "forego that item entirely."

But in marriage, one or both people needs to monitor and definitely there needs to be collaboration and agreement or compromise. Otherwise there will be feelings that will out in one way or another.

[disneysteve]

couples who keep things entirely seperate don't cede control. And if you keep it seperate how can it ever be betraying if you don't share finances? Then it's only answering to yourself.

Even if you separate finances and "answer to yourself", the SO can still be betrayed if s/he does not do with the money what is supposed to be done with it.

But I think "control" is probably the wrong word for the meaning of what DisneySteve is trying to present.

The "responsibility" falls to me to pay the bills and manage the money

We both "control" because we both discuss $'s that we may want or need to spend outside of our allowances. It's a team effort for our future and a discussion or collaboration ; and we communicate and understand why we need to "wait now" or "forego that item entirely."

Thank you, Seeker. Yes, responsibility is a better word than control in this context. I was using "control" in the sense that I am "in control" of our finances in the same way that when we are driving and I'm behind the wheel, I am "in control" of the vehicle. My wife might be reading off directions telling me where to go, but she is not controlling the car. When two people get into a car, only one can be "in control". The same goes for finances. Even though my wife, like you and yours, discuss our wants and needs and expenditures, ultimately it is I who write the check or pay the bill because I am "in control" or "responsible" for managing our money.

LAL - I don't think separate finances changes anything. As Seeker said, you still need to be communicating and working together as a couple toward common goals. If one spouse goes out and blows all their money at the mall every other week and doesn't stay current on the bills, fund retirement, etc., that is a breach of trust. How would you feel if the electricity got turned off because it was your spouse's job to pay that bill and it didn't get done?

[jIM_Ohio]

All the control or responsibility of one party will do nothing if the other party chooses to deceive, lie or misrepresent the truth.

[FoolFromAZ]

All the control or responsibility of one party will do nothing if the other party chooses to deceive, lie or misrepresent the truth.

I just looked through this thread. Prety much same thing happening in my family, but here I am the one who is hiding debt of two CC. As I mentioned in my earlier post that we have got over 45K of CC debt. 38K on my CC and around 8K on my wife's CC. My wife does not know 12K out of 38K debt on my CC. She does not know how many credit cards I have got. I get e-statement from those two CC. no paper statement. I have seperate checking account where $200 goes directly from my paycheck to pay the minimum of those two cards. Again I dont get paper paystub.

My wife never looked through the finance stuff until she started working (about an yr ago). she knows that I was getting money from CC for the down payment of our home. but she did not know how much. We had lot of expenses when our daughter was born. When she first asked me about our total CC debt, I did not mention the debt from two cards as she would be worried if she finds that we have over 50K of CC debt (at one time I had over 60K of CC debt).

Overall I am not sure whether I am cheating or not. But I did not spend that money anything other than for our family. I could have told my wife, but I was not sure how my wife wud take if she hears that we have over 50K of debt just on CC.