I hate the phrase "Keeping up with the Joneses"

[scfr]

Thought this was interesting:

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/mansion-believed-inspired-phrase-keeping-joneses-sold-120k/story?id=42305591

It seems that when the phrase originated it was about posh society members trying to out-flash each other. Now it seems to be more commonly used when referring to people trying to "keep up" with their peers or neighbors . . . at least in terms of visible possessions. I wonder if that happened because Jones is such a common name?? It would seem different if the expression were "Keeping up with the Vanderbilts."

[Jennsnoopy]

I agree having kids makes a big, big dent in disposable income. I remember when we were planning our family, I wanted 4. We ended up with 2. I can't imagine having 4 now. Allowing for basic living expenses, an extra curricular activity, and saving for college- financial it's a big hit. And if you have medical issues with your kids, oh boy. Not easy. But I'm glad we have them.

I'm honest though, I am still trying not to compare myself with the Joneses. I know many of you are luckily immune from this with how you think, for me, it's difficult.

Fighting the good fight but im definitely not perfect with respect to this.

[tripods68]

I think many can't afford to keep with the Joneses,

most try to keep up with the Joneses using debt,

others try to keep up with the Joneses without debt.

We don't keep up with the 'joneses' BUT we pay for everything that we can afford in CASH!

[disneysteve]

others try to keep up with the Joneses without debt.

True. We often talk about how people go into debt to live a lifestyle they can't really afford. But I also know people who don't turn to debt. They just spend every penny that comes in. So they have all of the nice stuff - car, house, clothing, electronics - but they have no savings, no retirement account, etc. That's just as bad.

[greenskeeper]

I thank those who are "keeping up with the Joneses". Without them I shutter as to what kind of economy we would have.

[HundredK]

Huh - didn't know until now that the phrase actually came from a comic strip titled "Keeping up with the Joneses" in the early 1900's, and apparently had very little to do with the concept of being jealous of neighbors. It was just a normal strip that occasionally mentioned the Joneses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses

[Eagle]

Do folks generally really believe that all debt problems are caused by people attempting to "Keep up with the Joneses"? If I could choose one phrase to not see used ever again, I think it would be that one. It's so presumptuous and filled with arrogance.

I, for one, managed to get in the mess I'm in without giving one **** about the Joneses. :-)

Thoughts?

I'm reminded of the 2009 movie with Demi Moore called "The Joneses"

I hate that expression too. Most people that I know who are overwhelmed by debt got that way through student loans to advance their careers, medical issues, legal problems, or some other event that knocked them down.

I think many people assume incorrectly that debt is somehow related only to behavior and personal choices. It reminds me of another article I read a while back. Dave Ramsey really promotes this whole idea of "Keeping up with the Jones's" and incorrectly assumes certain things regarding people's finances.

Dave Ramsey in this article said the following:

...poverty is caused and perpetuated primarily by some combination of three things:

1. Personal habits, choices and character;
2. Oppression by people taking advantage of the poor;
3. The myriad of problems encountered if born in a third-world economy.

[Eagle]

I think here's a more complete list:

1a. Personal habits – spending more than you make, Eating Junk food, lack of exercise, not having goals, continuing education/learning, lack of networking, watching excessive amounts of TV,
1b. Choices – drug use, alcoholism, education or lack of, welfare dependency (fatalist mentality), having too many children (without having the income to support said children)
1c. Character – laziness, lack of motivation, selfishness, lack of discipline, lack of responsibility
What else comes to mind here?

2. Oppression by people taking advantage of the poor.
*the rich taking advantage of lack of knowledge/education of poor people
*the rich taking advantage of lack of understanding of laws of poor people
What else comes to mind here?

3. The myriad of problems encountered if born in a third-world economy. (Topic for another discussion I believe.)

4. External Factors and Circumstances –
*natural disasters (tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, droughts, etc.)
*degradation of environment (soil, water, deforestation, etc.),
*family of origin (where and when you are born),
*quality of education (depending on where you live),
*mental illnesses/disorders (anxiety disorders, mood disorders, psychotic disorders, eating disorders, addiction disorders, impulse control disorders, personality disorders, etc. such as: autism, schizophrenia, bipolar, phobias, ADHD, etc.)
*physical disabilities (thankfully there are laws protecting people with these challenges),
*general illnesses that are hard to prevent or are hereditary in nature (such as cancer, heart disease, obesity, etc.),
*economic trends (job market slow-down resulting among other things in loss of employment and fewer opportunities for employment)

[DaveInPgh]

[LivingAlmostLarge]

In the movie the Joneses they were paid actors to sell items to the rich community? Didn't they drive their neighbor insane by having more?

I can tell by some neighbors where we live now that they are definitely KUWJ. Some after they move in start driving nice luxury cars. It's very interesting.

[tripods68]

In the movie the Joneses they were paid actors to sell items to the rich community? Didn't they drive their neighbor insane by having more?

I can tell by some neighbors where we live now that they are definitely KUWJ. Some after they move in start driving nice luxury cars. It's very interesting.

It turn out most movies turn out to be the reality. We are "walking billboard" brand commercializing everything from what we wear everyday to what we drive (a pair of $100 Ray Ban sunglasses, Starbucks coffee while holding a Michael Kors handbag to what we drive every day, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus etc) Except we are not getting paid to be part of the movie, we are reality.

[disneysteve]

We are "walking billboard" brand commercializing everything from what we wear everyday to what we drive

Yep. I see this all the time. The designer handbags, the clothes with the big brand logo on them. And I've definitely noticed that the brand icon on cars has gotten far larger over the years. It used to be a subtle thing. Now they can sometimes be 5-6 inches wide.

My wife and I don't buy much clothing where the brand is identifiable. Sneakers would be the main exception, but my pants and shirts are almost never marked with the brand in a visible place. My iPhone is pretty obvious, but not as much as with the people who get a case that has a cut out so the Apple logo shows through (mine covers it). The main time my clothing promotes a brand is when I'm wearing a Disney item so I'm guilty there.

[sv2007]

Or just choose more affordable college options like the local community or state schools where you can get a 4-year degree for about the cost of 1 year at the elite private school.

i'm attending a community college (supposedly a very good one where lots of international students come just to attend; based on my classes, I'd say 25% are international students). I can say this: it will not give you anywhere near the equivalent education of a top tier university.

I don't think anybody will save money in the long term by attending a community college if he/she can go to a top college (by top, I mean ranking in the top 10 in the field). Education is a long term investment and in the grand scheme of things (i.e. your lifetime/career/etc.) it is short and must be maximized.

[StormRichards]

i'm attending a community college (supposedly a very good one where lots of international students come just to attend; based on my classes, I'd say 25% are international students). I can say this: it will not give you anywhere near the equivalent education of a top tier university.

I don't think anybody will save money in the long term by attending a community college if he/she can go to a top college (by top, I mean ranking in the top 10 in the field). Education is a long term investment and in the grand scheme of things (i.e. your lifetime/career/etc.) it is short and must be maximized.

There is no doubt that a degree from a top school can open doors for you. I know recruiters that only look at candidates from a few select schools. That is unfortunate because they are probably missing out on many smart and talented candidates.

I attended community college and had some great professors. A few of those professors also taught at TOP local schools at the same time. Just picked up extra classes at the community college for whatever their reasons were. So I would say I got a lot of value for my dollar.

That being said, although I am a big supporter of community college, I have never heard of one being a prestigious destination for International students. They are likely attending your community college because that is the only option available to them.

[sv2007]

There is no doubt that a degree from a top school can open doors for you. I know recruiters that only look at candidates from a few select schools. That is unfortunate because they are probably missing out on many smart and talented candidates.

I attended community college and had some great professors. A few of those professors also taught at TOP local schools at the same time. Just picked up extra classes at the community college for whatever their reasons were. So I would say I got a lot of value for my dollar.

That being said, although I am a big supporter of community college, I have never heard of one being a prestigious destination for International students. They are likely attending your community college because that is the only option available to them.

I have handled initial screenings of fresh college grads to bring on site for interviews for a department of 60 people at a very large tech company, i.e. I've talked to a lot of them (the list I get is from HR, so they also did some screening). I can say that there's a big difference between the candidates of different schools.

I'd definitely take the bet there are good candidates from all schools; it is just that the % of good vs bad is going to be pretty obvious for someone who's talked to a bunch. Unfortunately, some people may not want to try 100 before hitting that 1 good candidate.

I'm not against community colleges (in fact, I'm studying at one right now). However, having had experience at one of the best schools and this community college, there is a huge gap in student and teacher quality (if we just measure quality by ACT/SAT scores/HS grades of students and teacher credentials). For example, only 1 of my teachers has a PhD and no research. I'm not even considering the resources available.

Community college is very useful for certain purposes and people; but it isn't a good idea to attend it just to save money.

Maybe it is the classes I'm taking (music), but I was also very surprised at the amount of international students. Traveling all the way to the US just to attend a community college is (frankly) beyond me. But the fact is that's the make up of my classes. They tell me they picked this school because it has a good reputation. Oh well, maybe it is their only option to get into the UC system (University of California); I hear that if you do poorly in HS but do well at a community college, you are guaranteed into a UC campus. So, let's say that's truely true, then it means none of them can even get into a UC school (and there are some really bad ones) --> which goes to show again the student quality.