I hate the phrase "Keeping up with the Joneses"

[GoodSteward]

I thank those who are "keeping up with the Joneses". Without them I shutter as to what kind of economy we would have.

I've contemplated this myself. The whole economy is graded on buying and selling, and I often hear how bad we are doing when people are conserving and not spending. One time I heard a news article that indicated we might be heading into a recession again and people were not spending like they were. I thought, wait a min. So your telling me if people followed proper money management our economy would tank? That's when I realized the whole thing is broken. If people are not buying all this stuff all the time, and saved more than we made as a whole, we would hit a depression and don't know if it would pull out. We need people buying new cars so we can buy used, and we need people spending most of their income up so we can get high returns on our investments and keep the economy going. Sad.

Dave Ramsey in this article said the following:

...poverty is caused and perpetuated primarily by some combination of three things:

1. Personal habits, choices and character;
2. Oppression by people taking advantage of the poor;
3. The myriad of problems encountered if born in a third-world economy.

This is very true for a lot of people. The family I have referenced not too long ago that could barely afford what they had went out and gave their paid for car to a family member and bought another small nearly new car. Well, yesterday I visited with them and they showed me the paper for the loan. They bought a 2015 Focus with 30k miles for 14,7k$. What made me mad (but I didn't show it) was that they have a loan for 72 months at 24% interest. They were excited to get it without any money down. They are on social security making about 24k a year. This kind of stuff keeps people "poor."

[disneysteve]

I don't think anybody will save money in the long term by attending a community college if he/she can go to a top college (by top, I mean ranking in the top 10 in the field).

The route often recommended is to do the first 2 years at community college and then transfer to the better school. Your degree will be from the better school just the same as the people who went there all 4 years. But you will have spent tens of thousands of dollars less to get that degree.

[StormRichards]

I have handled initial screenings of fresh college grads to bring on site for interviews for a department of 60 people at a very large tech company, i.e. I've talked to a lot of them (the list I get is from HR, so they also did some screening). I can say that there's a big difference between the candidates of different schools.

I'd definitely take the bet there are good candidates from all schools; it is just that the % of good vs bad is going to be pretty obvious for someone who's talked to a bunch. Unfortunately, some people may not want to try 100 before hitting that 1 good candidate.

I'm not against community colleges (in fact, I'm studying at one right now). However, having had experience at one of the best schools and this community college, there is a huge gap in student and teacher quality (if we just measure quality by ACT/SAT scores/HS grades of students and teacher credentials). For example, only 1 of my teachers has a PhD and no research. I'm not even considering the resources available.

Community college is very useful for certain purposes and people; but it isn't a good idea to attend it just to save money.

Maybe it is the classes I'm taking (music), but I was also very surprised at the amount of international students. Traveling all the way to the US just to attend a community college is (frankly) beyond me. But the fact is that's the make up of my classes. They tell me they picked this school because it has a good reputation. Oh well, maybe it is their only option to get into the UC system (University of California); I hear that if you do poorly in HS but do well at a community college, you are guaranteed into a UC campus. So, let's say that's truely true, then it means none of them can even get into a UC school (and there are some really bad ones) --> which goes to show again the student quality.

My experience with community college was very different than what you describe. Guess it varies school to school. Like I said in my prior post, a few of my professors taught at the TOP local schools while picking up classes at community. Also, in my experience, the professors at community seemed to be more engaged. I really felt like I was learning.

That wasn't always the case after I transferred to a 4 year school.

[disneysteve]

Guess it varies school to school. Like I said in my prior post, a few of my professors taught at the TOP local schools while picking up classes at community.

I think it does vary. And the same is true for the "better" schools. At a lot of pretty elite schools, a lot of classes are taught by teaching assistants, not the tenured experienced professors.

One of the things that appealed to us at my daughter's school is that there are no teaching assistants. Every class is taught by a professor with a doctorate in their field (except for one subject for which there isn't a doctoral degree and they all have Masters degrees). Some schools we visited which have more prestigious names and reputations couldn't say the same.

[pflyers85]

i'm attending a community college (supposedly a very good one where lots of international students come just to attend; based on my classes, I'd say 25% are international students). I can say this: it will not give you anywhere near the equivalent education of a top tier university.

I don't think anybody will save money in the long term by attending a community college if he/she can go to a top college (by top, I mean ranking in the top 10 in the field). Education is a long term investment and in the grand scheme of things (i.e. your lifetime/career/etc.) it is short and must be maximized.

Of course a community college will not give you near the education of a top tier university. That is like saying a Toyota Corolla is not going to give you near the performance of a high end Mercedes. Just as not everyone can afford a Mercedes, not everyone has the aptitude to handle the academic rigor at a top tier university.

If a student has the grades to get into a top college, they likely are going to qualify for some sort of scholarships and grants. They aren't paying full sticker price to get in anyway. I really don't think there are many students that had the grades to get into a premier university that are turning that down to go to a CC. CC out of high school is mostly either for those that have no desire to go to school for 4+ years and those who had mediocre grades in HS looking to save money on the 1st two years because they didn't qualify for academic scholarships and mom and dad didn't save for their college.

[StormRichards]

I think it does vary. And the same is true for the "better" schools. At a lot of pretty elite schools, a lot of classes are taught by teaching assistants, not the tenured experienced professors.

One of the things that appealed to us at my daughter's school is that there are no teaching assistants. Every class is taught by a professor with a doctorate in their field (except for one subject for which there isn't a doctoral degree and they all have Masters degrees). Some schools we visited which have more prestigious names and reputations couldn't say the same.

Being taught by a TA does not appeal to me either.

Another thing common with the big schools is classes held in auditoriums by professors that may never learn your name. In my 4 years of college, I never had a class with over 30 students. I think the smaller class size was a huge benefit for my learning experience.

[GoodSteward]

I've seen a financial documentary that showcased some people on youtube talking about how their degree was worthless, some were from Top schools. One guy burned his law degree cause it was worthless to him.

Just because you paid more for it doesn't mean you get more for it. The better degree seems to get more attention as a new degree, but from what Ive understood once you are into your field nobody cares as long as you have a degree. I suppose that could be career specific, or especially once you are into higher grade degrees like a PHD. A PHD from Harvard means a lot more in people's ears than a PHD from a state school. In most places a BS is a BS. I don't doubt you can get a better education from a better school, but just because you go to a better school doesn't mean you get a better education. A lot of that is on the student. Better schools don't make an under performing student magically better.

That being a case I don't have a degree and I knew more starting this job than the people I've interviewed after me that had only a degree and no experience. That's why I got the job over people with degrees in the first place. I'm in IT for reference.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

My DH got the most bang for his buck from his current training. LOL. And he's got he phd, mba, and did undergrad at a "state" school. Although maybe the state school was the biggest bang because it was so cheap in Canada. I don't use mine so I don't get bang for buck. I can't comment.

[sv2007]

The route often recommended is to do the first 2 years at community college and then transfer to the better school. Your degree will be from the better school just the same as the people who went there all 4 years. But you will have spent tens of thousands of dollars less to get that degree.

The quality of education is pretty different. I wouldn't personally do this to my kid. Transferring from an easy school to a harder one (taking upper division courses as well) is going to be hard. Plus part of college isn't just the classes, it is an experience which will be missed.

[disneysteve]

Plus part of college isn't just the classes, it is an experience which will be missed.

I agree 100% with this statement, but that isn't what we were talking about. The point was about getting a degree at a lower cost. That involves some sacrifices and getting the entire "college experience" is one of those sacrifices if you need to cut costs.

We drilled into our daughter's head from a very young age that college meant living on campus. That was non-negotiable in our house. We (DW and I) both believe very strongly that there is a lot more to college than what happens in the classroom. If you don't live away from home, you miss out on a huge part of what college is all about.

All of that said, we can afford to give her that experience. If we couldn't, she'd be living at home attending a local school.

[sv2007]

I've seen a financial documentary that showcased some people on youtube talking about how their degree was worthless, some were from Top schools. One guy burned his law degree cause it was worthless to him.
.

Can't really burn my degree but I know what you mean. Burning diploma isn't really significant at all (ok, maybe for an optometrist as we've come to expect to see them in their offices, but they can get it reprinted).

There is always somebody that's very different. We just have to know when there's a trend and when it is just an isolated situation. Just like there's going to be very smart kids at community colleges; but ,here, in the above posts, I'm speaking in general terms.

[disneysteve]

I've seen a financial documentary that showcased some people on youtube talking about how their degree was worthless, some were from Top schools. One guy burned his law degree cause it was worthless to him.

I struggle to understand how someone's law degree could be worthless. What you choose to do with that degree is up to you. What did that lawyer expect? Did he go to law school assuming it would guarantee him a high-paying job?

I haven't seen the documentary but I can't help but wonder if those folks didn't have unrealistic expectations going in.

Even if you end up not working in the field in which you earned your degree (which is quite common actually) that still doesn't mean your degree was worthless, especially if the job you did end up with required you to have a degree in something.

[StormRichards]

Plus part of college isn't just the classes, it is an experience which will be missed.

I agree 100% with this statement, but that isn't what we were talking about. The point was about getting a degree at a lower cost. That involves some sacrifices and getting the entire "college experience" is one of those sacrifices if you need to cut costs.

We drilled into our daughter's head from a very young age that college meant living on campus. That was non-negotiable in our house. We (DW and I) both believe very strongly that there is a lot more to college than what happens in the classroom. If you don't live away from home, you miss out on a huge part of what college is all about.

All of that said, we can afford to give her that experience. If we couldn't, she'd be living at home attending a local school.

What college experience are they missing out on by not living on campus? Parties? Rape?

Sorry, but just not buying what you two are selling

[sv2007]

What college experience are they missing out on by not living on campus? Parties? Rape?

Sorry, but just not buying what you two are selling

I've never been to a rock n roll concert even though I play a stratocaster. Am I good because I can listen to all that music at home and not risk dying (people even get killed sometimes) or am I missing a good experience in life?

It is only for that person to decide, but if never given a chance... then...that person will never know. Just like me, I'm happy to not die at a rock concert and jam at home.

[rennigade]

What college experience are they missing out on by not living on campus? Parties? Rape?

Sorry, but just not buying what you two are selling

Oh no...not a rape culture social justice warrior.

And just to let everyone know...if both consenting adults over the age of 18 are drunk and decide to have sex...that is considered rape now. The guy will always be punished and found guilty. This is the rape culture that exists now.