Is it bad there??

[disneysteve]

1) Thoughts on politicians getting the vaccine (ie, Pence & wife Karen, Biden & wife Jill, congress people, etc)?

World leaders should absolutely be near the front of the line. Several have already been sickened including Trump, Boris Johnson, Emmanuel Macron, and others. Fortunately, none have died or been incapacitated but it certainly could happen. Plus, someone like Biden is also at high risk due to age. And these aren't people that can really isolate like the average non-essential worker.

2) What about the rich wanting to purchase the vaccine early?

That's obviously wrong, but we all know that the rich play by a different set of rules. Imagine you're the CEO of a hospital system that has lost millions of dollars due to COVID. Some rich guy comes along and says he'll make a substantial donation as long as he can get a COVID vaccine this week. Are you really going to say no?

When I went for my vaccine today, I saw the CEO come out before me. He's not a doctor. He doesn't interact with COVID patients. He's relatively young and healthy as far as I know. He didn't really have any major indication to be among the first to be vaccinated, but I'm sure he did it more as a symbolic thing and to show support and motivation for everyone else.

[kork13]

Alot of reasons for senior political leaders to quickly get vaccinated. For one, easily 60-70% are in the high risk group simply due to their age (tier 2 for vaccine access, only after tier 1 medical staff, first responders, and nursing home residents). And as DS referred to, like it or not, there are many things about running a country that must be done in person. Steve's second point is also noteworthy -- given the distrust in the political, scientific, and medical systems that has been conjured up by this whole mess (literally) getting so violently politicized, there is something to be said for leaders publicly taking the vaccine as a means of demonstrating trust in the vaccine. I haven't paid attention to the news for particulars, but hopefully it's leaders from across the political spectrum, particularly those who hold an outsized sway over public opinion.

ETA: I came across an article this morning discussing the use of influential people to help push the vaccine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/histo...e-coronavirus/

disneysteve a remarkably astute pair of questions I've started getting from some of the folks in my unit, perhaps you can clarify? I'm not familiar enough with the research to have a good answer. For those who have already been COVID positive, should they still get the vaccine? Any risk of reduced (or more intense) immune response to the vaccine given their previous exposure to the virus? Particularly of concern given that many people (15-20% is what we're being told) who receive the vaccine have a particularly strong reaction to the vaccine--especially the 2nd dose--that will put them on their butt pretty hard. The messaging we're getting is for many people to be prepared for necessary bedrest for 2+ days after vaccination, and for us to stagger vaccinations so that we don't risk having half of the unit go down recovering from their vaccination.

[kork13]

Occasionally I'll post here a favorite web-comic for computer/science/math nerds (such as myself), called xkcd. Today's comic seems particularly relevant & entertaining. (Be sure to see the 'title text' too -- hold your mouse over the image for a second, or long-press on your phone).

[disneysteve]

Kork too much to type on my phone. I’ll answer you tomorrow.

[disneysteve]

a remarkably astute pair of questions I've started getting from some of the folks in my unit, perhaps you can clarify? I'm not familiar enough with the research to have a good answer. For those who have already been COVID positive, should they still get the vaccine?

People who have had COVID are considered to be immune for 90 days, so it is recommended that anyone who has tested positive wait at least 90 days before getting the vaccine. It isn't that anything bad would happen, but they don't really need it and it frees up supply for those who do.

Any risk of reduced (or more intense) immune response to the vaccine given their previous exposure to the virus?

I haven't seen anything specifically addressing this, but it kind of makes sense. We are told that folks tend to have a greater reaction to the 2nd dose than to the first because of the previous exposure. That's how our immune systems work. So yes, I think people who have already had COVID may be more prone to side effects after the first dose than those who haven't had it.

Particularly of concern given that many people (15-20% is what we're being told) who receive the vaccine have a particularly strong reaction to the vaccine--especially the 2nd dose--that will put them on their butt pretty hard. The messaging we're getting is for many people to be prepared for necessary bedrest for 2+ days after vaccination, and for us to stagger vaccinations so that we don't risk having half of the unit go down recovering from their vaccination.

Same here. We've been advised to get the vaccine when we have at least one and preferably two days off afterwards. They also recommend that everyone in a department not be vaccinated at the same time.

[Like2Plan]

I haven't seen anything specifically addressing this, but it kind of makes sense. We are told that folks tend to have a greater reaction to the 2nd dose than to the first because of the previous exposure. That's how our immune systems work. So yes, I think people who have already had COVID may be more prone to side effects after the first dose than those who haven't had it.


Same here. We've been advised to get the vaccine when we have at least one and preferably two days off afterwards. They also recommend that everyone in a department not be vaccinated at the same time.

I've been wondering about this, too. How's your arm today Disneysteve?

[disneysteve]

I've been wondering about this, too. How's your arm today Disneysteve?

Arm is a bit sore but no more than after any other vaccine. Otherwise I feel fine.

[Like2Plan]

Arm is a bit sore but no more than after any other vaccine. Otherwise I feel fine.

I'm glad to hear that.

[bjl584]

So there is a new strain of covid in England that transmits 70% easier than the current strain.
Exactly what does that mean?
Is this new strain immune to the vaccines being rolled out?

[bjl584]

I agree 100%. We need to shut everything down and then immediately start UBI payments.

Doubt you'll see that anytime soon.
That's a pretty far left idea with not a lot of mainstream support.
You'd get further simply giving out payments exclusively to the businesses that were forced to close. Not everyone whether they need it or not.

[disneysteve]

Doubt you'll see that anytime soon.
That's a pretty far left idea with not a lot of mainstream support.
You'd get further simply giving out payments exclusively to the businesses that were forced to close. Not everyone whether they need it or not.

Well yeah, I didn’t mean to everyone. Just to those put out of work. If a gym has to close, make payments to the gym owner and the staff. If you have an essential business and can keep working, no payments for you.

The problem is that what we've done so far is tell businesses they need to close for public health reasons but then not provide for them during that closure. Unemployment doesn't replace everything, and not everyone is even eligible for unemployment benefits. My daughter wasn't when her place had to close.

[HundredK]

I see all these reports on the news channels that there are masses of lines at the hospitals...and the ers are overrun etc...but then other people are sharing dated videos of the hospital parking lots, er rooms etc and they are empty...so just wondering are most hospitals busy or are they not?....Im just wondering cause we don't get a lot of news channels like you and only get a few snippets of what is happening over there...so just curious if anyone knew??

Parking lots being empty are probably more a reflection of efforts for providers to do appointments online, and the limiting of who is allowed inside the hospital to visit people (you can't just waltz into a hospital these days with 40 relatives to visit someone). Also, in places where I live, people and businesses have stopped caring about the virus. My foot surgeon told me they are running at 110% now to make up for when they were shut down in March, despite the virus cases being higher and higher. My point is, the parking lots aren't at all a reflection of ICU activity.

Also, maybe there are pics of empty hospital rooms, but those probably aren't ICU rooms. In our state at least, ICU rooms is the measure they go by.

Oops, I just realized I responded to the first post in the thread and not the last, but oh well, still valid info.

[HundredK]

The problem is that what we've done so far is tell businesses they need to close for public health reasons but then not provide for them during that closure.

There were a LOT of businesses that benefitted from the Paycheck Protection loans, but unfortunately it seems like the larger businesses who theoretically should have had enough cash to weather a storm jumped right on that bandwagon, preventing those who really needed help from getting it. But that's how these things always tend to go.

[disneysteve]

There were a LOT of businesses that benefitted from the Paycheck Protection loans, but unfortunately it seems like the larger businesses who theoretically should have had enough cash to weather a storm jumped right on that bandwagon, preventing those who really needed help from getting it. But that's how these things always tend to go.

PPP did benefit many. My old practice got a loan. Our synagogue got one. My daughter's job got one, so they were able to pay her for 8 weeks that she was out (she was out for 4 months). But that whole process was a mess. Businesses had to do all kinds of paperwork and jump through hoops to apply. We need a better system that is streamlined, easy, and fair.

[disneysteve]

in places where I live, people and businesses have stopped caring about the virus.

This is really the issue: people not caring. They call it "quarantine fatigue". Unfortunately, it's just making the situation multitudes worse. So many people just HAD to go see their families for Thanksgiving and they will insist on doing the same for Christmas, and the healthcare system will pay the price.

At our hospitals, our COVID census peaked at 262 patients on 12/11, two weeks after Thanksgiving. It dipped down to 222 but is now climbing again and stood at 252 on Friday. I have no doubt that we will set a new record two weeks after Christmas.

People need to STAY HOME.
You should not be interacting indoors with anyone who doesn't live in your house.
Christmas should be celebrated on Zoom.