Nobody Is Getting Out of This Deal Alive

[Fishindude77]

Have kicked the can down the road long enough and have finally gotten a lot of this "end of life" stuff done this summer, so as not to put too much burden on heirs when that time comes. Spouse and I just finished up Powers of Attorney and Advance Directives for Healthcare Decisions with our local attorney. After some back and forth discussions we have elected to simply do a formal Will rather than a Trust and hope to be putting a bow on that this afternoon when we meet attorney again.

Lastly, we'll get with the funeral home sometime soon and put together, and maybe even prepay those plans.

This is easy stuff to ignore and put off, but something most of us should do as we start getting up in age. We are 65 m& 62 so hopefully have a good many years left, but there is some peace of mind knowing this stuff is all taken care of.

[ua_guy]

Starting this journey at 43 myself. We've interviewed several CFP's and selected a firm that can do all the legal paperwork and planning (trusts, wills, healthcare directives and POA's) we need as well and have our first round of steps knocked out so we can start working on the documents.

Things like end of life planning are very important. Also, since gay marriage is going to be reconsidered by the supreme court, we need to make sure we protect one another and our assets should that decision be overturned. It's too important to throw caution to the wind, and although it makes me see red... black... when I think about it, my husband and I must prepare ourselves. So here we are.

[Drake3287]

Yep, my wife and I just started the long process of a Will and Trust along with Power of Attorney and Advance Directives for Healthcare. Like many people we kept putting it off. Sounds like our home and our many different accounts need to changed from our names as joint owners to trusts name. Sort of surprised at how much this all cost also, here in the Bay Area we're paying $4,500. for everything. Not cheap by any means but I believe it's the going rate around here plus I know it'll be done correctly.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I did a will and trust officially in 2021. In 2010 we did it legalzoom when we had our first kid. Super simple. Kid everything. My mom - kid. Money - BFF. Sell house and keep money for kid. Kid sole beneficary. I will admit we did NOT change it when kid 2 came along and we moved states (big mistake but at least we had something). we also had life insurance separate from work $4m for DH and $500k for me. We likely overinsured at that point but under insured longer term since we bought a very expensive house and our savings in 2017 when we bought it wasn't enough for me to FIRE completely. It'd have been tight and I likely could have stayed home for a long time or worked part-time but if something had happened to DH I would have needed to work at some point. We should have bought more insurance then.

Then in 2021 we did one with an attorney and a trust. We did a couple different things and it all in cost us $10k. Worth every penny for peace of mind. We are now overinsured again since our assets have grown, kids have aged, and we have less debt. So it's a funny thing. Now it looks really stupid buying term life insurance we hopefully will never need. We are 15 years into a 30 year term. It'll have cost us $30k for $4m and $6k for $500k on me. Obviously i couldn't have invested it and done better but I wonder if we shouldn't have bought something else?

Will we update our wills/trust again? We are looking into it again. they say every 5 years. I just did my mom's estate and her will and trust cost her around $5k. She really didn't need a trust but because she owns real estate in hawaii it was required or probate would happen even with TOD on everything else. She has a joint bank account with me, IRA/Roth IRA/Brokerage and 2 homes. Not a lot of complexity TBH, but the state says so.

[myrdale]

The quote button isn't working for me this morning?

Anyway Drake that price is insane. Granted I am in Georgia, not California, and mine was done around 2015, not 2025, but the whole package for me was only $450. Maybe your case is more complicated than mine, but 10X? If you haven't already spent the money, shop around!

To LivingAlmostLarge's point, get those documents updated when there are major life shifts (marriage, divorce, new kid, move, etc).

[ua_guy]

When a good lawyer is billing $450/hr or more, it's conceivable that getting everything together for trust(s), wills, directives, POA's, and getting all the assets situated could be 10 hours of work, or more.

[myrdale]

Quote button still not working.

ua_guy, the $450 I mentioned was the total cost. I don't have a clue how many hours it took them, presumably not many.

[ua_guy]

It's also possible to use online software, pay $50, and print out a will and other templated legal documents. They're real, legal documents so long as they conform to any state requirements (notaries, witnesses, specific language, etc).

One size does not fit all, though, which you mentioned...And that could very easily explain the associated costs. Having a lawyer spend billable time gets expensive in a hurry.

[Drake3287]

"Anyway Drake that price is insane. Granted I am in Georgia, not California, and mine was done around 2015, not 2025, but the whole package for me was only $450. Maybe your case is more complicated than mine, but 10X? If you haven't already spent the money, shop around!"

Yep, I thought the same thing. Unfortunately after talking to many people they had similar prices around here based on all the work being done which includes a total of 3 separate meetings with the attorney. Our Will/trust is also fairly simple and straight forward with everything being split evenly with our kids. Prices for everything in California is insane, we're still paying nearly $5.00 a gallon for gas still.

[myrdale]

ua_guy, the on line (or store bought, Staples carries them) are absolutely doable so long as they are the correct state specific version. Prior to hiring a lawyer to prepare mine, I had spend around $30 on a package from Staples. It is easy enough, however part of the process is witnessing, notarizing, and filing.

It very well may be you could just write down your intents on a sheet of paper and call it a day. But for what it means, it is worth, at least in my opinion having this professionally done.

A college friend's grandfather had divorced, and had a civil union with another guy. After the grandfather's death, despite there being some hand written wishes for the guy to remain in the home, my friends parents managed to get him evicted, then sale the property. For reference this was New York around 1995. Had he had a will it may have been a very different story.

Even if you think everyone is on the same page, and will play nice when you're gone, if you've made some legal error due to wanting to save, your final wishes may not be upheld.

[ua_guy]

My BIL's dad had a legal will drawn up and then decided he wasn't going to pay a lawyer to make any changes. So, he crossed things out and made notes and changes and never told anyone. That included, apparently, writing his son and daughter out of the will, which still bewilders them today. They thought they had a decent relationship with him, he would visit, they would call and check in on him often. Well, he died unexpectedly and none of the hand-written changes held up in probate. It's not like he had anything of value, most of the estate went to settling debt. That's all to say, consult any state requirements for making legal changes to legal documents.

Also, civil unions don't protect people and assets in the way most people think (a substitute for legal marriage). Family can still have legal claim to certain interests and decisions, and assets aren't protected. Even if assets are protected, the surviving partner has to pay taxes on the deceased's interest in the property. Legal framework can help with some of it, but what about things like SSI survivor/spouse benefits? Those just disappear if legal marriage goes away.