Married with Separate Finances?

[jenn_jenn]

Jenn,
It sounds like you're really struggling with these descisions, and I'm loathe to give this kind of advice via a sterile forum post... But I'll express my concerns. Reading all of what you've told us, Steve said almost exactly what I was thinking. You disagree on a couple of very significant areas (kids & money) that a married couple absolutely MUST see eye-to-eye on in order to build a happy & successful marriage... Those are both big red flags. The other major concern is that there sounds like he has some significant trust issues. Nothing against him, because we all have our troubles, and you don't have any control over the family you're raised in... But if anything, THAT (a lack of trust) would be an absolute non-starter for me. Perhaps you can work through the trust issues...but my experience is that life together, after marriage, gets harder before it gets easier.

I'll also bring up that my wife & I are both in the military, so I understand completely the dynamics involved there. Military life is almost always tough on families, especially if he's in a job that will send him on deployment or temporary duty either often or for long durations (or worse yet, both). It's part of the reason that my wife is leaving the military in a few months, and why I'm VERY happy that she (and we) are able to do that. We're often so stressed out that we're seeing it rub off on our two young boys, and that's honestly kind of terrifying for me. All of that to say, know what you're getting into. If your husband's unit has a spouse's group, ask a few of them to lunch, and just ask them about their experiences -- how they've made it work, or what they've struggled with, and that sort of thing.

My wife & I have had joint finances from the start. We tried to do the thing where each of us has a little side-account for our personal "fun money", but it just didn't work for us. And that (the bolded phrase) is the big point. Every couple works differently. For some, joint finances is the one and only way that things work (that's us -- at this point, there's no way I would, or could, go back to having separate finances). For others, partially separate (with personal side accounts) is better because it gives you a little extra freedom. Some do prefer totally separate finances while sharing joint expenses. In general, I say 'to each their own'. Do what works for you, as long as you both agree on how you'll handle your money.

I guess I'll leave you with this: If you were my sister, I'd tell you to sit down with him and have detailed, serious conversation about all of these issues. It's not an easy talk, but it can serve as a good pressure test. If you can talk through everything and feel comfortable about the situation, and are optimistic about your future together, go ahead and press on. But if you walk away and you don't have that optimism, or you've got something in your gut nagging at you, it's probably best to cut bait and move on (amicably if at all possible). All the best to you, whatever you choose. But you're very right -- you do need to choose, and probably sooner the better.

Our only disagreement is on finances. I fully acknowledge that is an absolute must for a couple to work out before marriage. Since I’m struggling to see his view point and even struggling to communicate all the reasons I’d prefer joint finances, I thought I’d ask here how others manage things and their reasons for doing so.

I know there are married couples that operate just fine on separate finances. But I’m trying to learn some of the things that these couples do so we can have a clear plan of what separate finances would look like for us.

I didn’t intend for this post to be a disection of my relationship. However, I did know that as DisneySteve said, I was opening a can of worms.

Thank you for the very thoughtful comment.

[Gailete]

Okay, I hate even saying this, but I have been married three times. Still married almost 17 years now to #3. When my first husband proposed I was rather naive. I thought if a guy asks you to marry him, that he wants to be married and have a shared life, etc. Little did I know what was going on behind the scenes. He was getting older and still living at home, and the only son of an Italian mama who wanted him to carry on the family name. When I said that we needed to go get a joint checking account he didn't think it was a good idea but finally relented although I was not allowed to write checks on it without his say-so. It took me a year to convince him to change the name on the mortgage insurance from his mother's to mine (he had taken out the mortgage to build a house before we were married) I was already seeing the writing on the wall and if something had happened to him, his mom would have had the money to pay off the mortgage and kick me out if she felt like she wanted to. I got a part-time job and because I was thinking that couples shared the income, I handed him my paycheck weekly and he handed me $25 for groceries and up to $5 for 'spending' money (can't remember how often I got that). At the end of the first year, we were married, my eyes were wide opened at that point. I stopped giving him my paycheck. I didn't like the fact that if I needed a pair of nylons I had to ask him for money. His idea of 'shared' finances of showing me his paycheck and then what he was doing with it with no involvement on my part nor any part of it going towards me. If I hadn't been able to sew when I got pregnant I wouldn't have had a thing to wear. He never saw that keeping me in clothing was part of his job as the one with all the money. His attitude about kids was asking me if I was sure it was safe and if I got pregnant it would be my fault before sex! Not what I learned in anatomy. Same things about opening a window in the summer when it was 90+out. If it rained and it came in through the windows it was my fault. Thankfully one day he decided to divorce me. Oh, happy day.

My second husband, my son calls him Mr. Big Bucks. Charged things like they were free. It didn't matter how broke we were, he never had enough stuff. When I told him after 4 years of marriage where I went from having zero credit card bills and an easily paid mortgage and car payment, ALL our cards were taped out and we owed $42K, The house payment was double what I had before we were married as was the car payment. When I told him he couldn't have a credit card anymore, they were full, he accused me of emasculating him! So that ended on a whimper. The house was sold as was the car and with the 'profit' from the sale of the house, I gave him 'his' share and my share paid off all cards in my name and left me with $1K.

Hubby, knew what I had gone through financially with those twits and no one should think that it would never happen to them. These things do happen. So before we were married he gave me the passwords to his bank account and all other financial info. What neither of us expected was me getting sick and not being able to continue nursing 6 weeks after we got married! My SS check became 1/4 - 1/3 of what my income had been. He worked self-employed with longterm jobs and because he still lived at home (next door to where we are now and his workshop is attached to our house that he was building then) paying room and board (something I don't think my first husband ever did) he was not used to paying for things on a monthly basis like mortgages, utilities, groceries, etc. and at that point we were living in my house paying for its upkeep while he worked and was trying to finish building this house and paying utilities on it and the workshop. That was a lot of outgo every month with a whole lot less income. We are only now in the last few years getting into a better place financially. We sold my house, we live here. I have always handled the money and investments. He gives his input, but he gets majorly triggered and stressed talking about money and I know I would I would be horribly stressed to have him handle the money so it works out well for us.

Part of my problem with him doing it is he totally loses track of time and date. I wasn't sure he would ever pay bills on time. And since I got on SS it was MY money that came in on a stable money basis. I had enough of others using the money that I earned in any way they choose. He has a charge card that he uses as needed, but I handle all the rest. That doesn't mean we don't discuss what to do with money. When we sold our rental property in December, I think both of us were scared to talk about what we would do with the money in case we jinxed it somehow. But after we had sold it and the money was in the bank, I went through the finances and made a charge of assets and liabilities, and game plan scenarios for different ways of using the money. I thought we were going to have a long involved exhausting discussion. About 5 minutes or so in he told me to deal with it how I thought best. I was astounded as I wasn't expecting that and he didn't say it with an aggrieved air of saying something that he doesn't mean. So I handled it and will. For the first time in our marriage, he has asked me for a cheat sheet so he knows what accounts me have and how to access them online, etc. Something he hasn't been concerned with the whole time we have been married. He always has said that if something happened to me he would consolidate everything into two accounts - checking and savings. He just thought what I do is too complicated, but to achieve certain goals it can get complicated. I enjoy handling the money, We both know we don't have a lot, but that doesn't mean we can't get something that we need or want.

Technically those were all joint finances, but only one of them was working. At least we find it works. One of the hardest things for me financially is having to have him go get the groceries as I wasn't up to it the other day. I think that is also where a new interest in knowing where things are as we both can see that I am getting worse physically. I have had to start using a cane in the house where up to a few months ago only used it when out of the house, that sort of thing. He sees that sooner or later I might not be able to do some of the things I always have had.

Only you can make a decision about what works for you and what YOU and only you are comfortable with. My advice would be run the other direction, but this is your decision. Remember this, health problems can come faster than the speed of light. Is he going to support you financially if you find that suddenly not only can you not work, but you need an in-home aid? If you get pregnant with full thoughts of going back to work - I did the whole time my kids were growing up and I hated every bit of it - what will happen if the worse happens? The child is born disabled and needs a full-time parent, Or has issues such as autism and needs to be taken here and there for therapies etc., of you end up pregnant with triplets. Happened to my dentist, and she stopped being my dentist at that point. Life happens and you have to know that you can both count of each other emotionally, physically and financially to support yourselves and your potentially growing family. What about him coming down ill. Will you support him? Most of us say of course, but I know I would be dead now if my first husband was still my husband assuming I hadn't murdered him yet! Hubby is the one that keeps me going physically. Finances tie so heavily into every part of life. It sounds like you two make plenty of money now, but things change quickly at times and be sure that is whom you would still want to be married to when the things change.

[riverwed070707]

I know you didn't come here to have your relationship dissected and the question of joint vs separate finances seems straight forward but I want so badly for you reread what you're telling us and consider what you're already planning to sacrifice for this relationship and then reflect on what you're getting in return. A marriage is a partnership and nothing about what you're describing is a partnership. You're willing to sacrifice your career and shoulder the bulk of the responsibilities for kids because you want them more than him. You understand his job will require relocation, potentially multiple times, which will isolate you from friends and family, hinder your career development and create an unstable environment for you and future children. While I understand this is part of military life, its a major sacrifice and no one should go into that kind of commitment without a partner that is 110% on board with being your full support system emotionally, financially and unconditionally. That doesn't mean you can't work and contribute but IMO the circumstances dictate that you both be sensitive to the fact that this instability creates unknowns for you and you need to be flexible with what your future income, career and family life might look like.

It's one thing to be on the same page about finances, but more importantly, you need a system that works now as well as openness to the fact that things change and not a contractual agreement that, if you decide to have separate finances now, you will always have separate finances and always work a full time job when the reality of your situation is that might not even be possible. Beyond the already pending uncertainties of your situation, what happens if one of you gets sick or injured and becomes unable to work? What if you have a parent that falls ill and you decide to take them in or become a caretaker? I'm not saying separate finances can't work (obviously some posters here are demonstrating that they can) but what won't work is for you to go into this willing to give up everything to a future spouse who is setting conditions on you earning your keep. Maybe that's not how he meant his rationale for keeping things separate, but that's how it comes off to me. Based on the little info we have, I'd be running for the hills. At best, I'd wait a long while before committing to marriage.

[amastewa93]

jenn_jenn It sounds like we may be close to the same age/time in our lives... I can provide a little insight on both of these.

So, my fiancee and I got engaged recently. As soon as we got engaged, we opened a joint account. That didn't make a HUGE difference though. For the most part, we already had intertwined our finances before this. We've lived together for two years, linked accounts, and paid bills together. If I didn't have the cash on hand for a student loan payment, etc. he had the cash when I needed it and vice versa. We will go into marriage this way as well. We've always worked as a team and that ultimately led to joint finances for us. We still have separate accounts and, if there's something one of us truly wants/needs, we get it with our "personal" money but we keep the bulk of our finances together.

However, I can also say prior to meeting my hubby-to-be I was in a long-term relationship (six years). We kept all of our finances separate and split every bill evenly. That really worked for us but, I must say, it did make me feel as though there was a lack of trust. I didn't feel as though we were a team and I didn't feel confident that if I needed help financially he would be there to assist because that was "his" money. Also, once I started making more, he became more open to joint finances which also raised a red flag.

All in all, it is all about what works for you. I, personally, feel so much more confident in my relationship with my fiancee and our finances having them joint.

[Thrif-t]

You know that old saying there is no I in team, that applies to a marriage too. One other thing I thought of that I always try to tell my sister but she ignores me, is the way your retirement funds are allocated. Even though those have to be separate I still combine them together on paper to make sure our allocation is how we want it and we're not over exposed in one area or another. Most people who leave their stuff separate, don't worry about how their partners are investing, that's their problem, but you may be hurting your future self when you don't strategize together.

[jenn_jenn]

I’ve read all the replies and really considered what people were saying. Also, thank you to those that shared their personal experiences of what did and did not work for them.

With that said, I don’t think this thread gave the best view of our relationship and gave off the wrong impression. We are a team.

I am surprised to have an update so soon. We talked about this again. He said he thought about it and changed his stance. He understood where I was coming from and the reasons for doing joint. We will do joint and each have a fun money account. We both feel good about with our plan. Maybe this system will work for us, maybe it won’t. I know that we’ll stick with a variation of joint though and be able to find a system that does.

[Jluke]

Yep. Typical for most forums when any time a relationship situation like this is discussed.

Usually posters have you divorced by the 4th post and you haven’t even married yet.

[Scallywag]

My boyfriend and I have very different views on money management, particularly in a marriage. I’m interested in hearing other’s thoughts on the topic.

His view: Finances should remain separate, what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is yours. Bills should be split evenly. Joint finances are controlling and leave me vulnerable to be taken advantage of.

My view: In a marriage, there’s no yours or mine. Once you’re married, you become a “we”. Personal slush funds are fine but finances for the most part should be joint. Financial decisions are made together.

That last bit of his view is offensive to me but I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. Different things work for different people. I’m trying to see both sides.

If you are currently married and manage your finances separately: What are your reasons for doing so? How does it work?

If you are currently married and manage your finances jointly: Would you be open to separate finances? Why or why not?

i haven't read all the answers. My opinion is that it is not at all a good idea to combine finances with someone to whom you are not legally married to.

I am married and everything was shared a week after the wedding and not a single day before. We each have an allowance but still consult each other on large purchases (greater than $100).

In my personal experience, high network individuals appear to be more reluctant to combine finances and most have a prenup. It doesn't mean that they don't trust you - also in my experience a few individuals have ended up voiding their prenup after 10 years of marriage. One voided her prenup in steps after her 15th anniversary until it was completely nullified after 25 years of marriage.

[disneysteve]

Yep. Typical for most forums when any time a relationship situation like this is discussed.

Usually posters have you divorced by the 4th post and you haven’t even married yet.

To be fair, people often come here and ask a "money" question that really isn't a money question at all. It's very much a relationship question, so the conversation naturally focuses on that.

[jenn_jenn]

To be fair, people often come here and ask a "money" question that really isn't a money question at all. It's very much a relationship question, so the conversation naturally focuses on that.

I disagree. This was really was a money question. There’s definitely a personal component but I wasn’t looking for relationship advice or criticism.

This is a public forum and I was asking for advice and shared personal detail when asked (and clearly everyone here is very well intentioned) so I’m not criticizing anyone here but this could have been answered without focusing on my relationship.

Example:

We have joint finances because:

- Easier to minimize taxes and maximize savings goals
- Combined accounts provide complete overview of risk allocation
- We share everything, there’s no mine or yours. It works for us to have everything combined.
- One partner doesn’t work so there aren’t two incomes to split

Our split finances look like this:

- One partner pays for these bills and the other partner pays these bills.

- We account for differences in income this way.

- One partner is a spender, one partner is a saver. Splitting accounts like this let’s us manage our finances so bills are paid on time.

[creditcardfree]

I disagree. This was really was a money question. There’s definitely a personal component but I wasn’t looking for relationship advice or criticism.

This is a public forum and I was asking for advice and shared personal detail when asked (and clearly everyone here is very well intentioned) so I’m not criticizing anyone here but this could have been answered without focusing on my relationship.

Example:

We have joint finances because:

- Easier to minimize taxes and maximize savings goals
- Combined accounts provide complete overview of risk allocation
- We share everything, there’s no mine or yours. It works for us to have everything combined.
- One partner doesn’t work so there aren’t two incomes to split

Our split finances look like this:

- One partner pays for these bills and the other partner pays these bills.

- We account for differences in income this way.

- One partner is a spender, one partner is a saver. Splitting accounts like this let’s us manage our finances so bills are paid on time.

Sorry, you can control how people respond to a question, particularly one where you specifically mention feelings about money. You might have had responses like you wrote above if you simply said what are the pros and cons of joint finances versus separate. Instead you brought the personal part into the equation with your question. Money is definitely personal as you know, that's why you received personal emotional opinions.

I'm glad you communicated further with your partner and have a plan that you are both comfortable with going forward. That is the best outcome in the end and only the two you can decide what is right for you.

[breathemusic]

Jenn,

I'm coming late to the party and see that technically you already came to an agreement, but I'd still like to share my 2 cents since I think I have a different viewpoint from much of what was said here.

I personally advocate for something that is more of a mix of the 2. It's similar to having a joint account and separate fun-money accounts.... but more the reverse in that you figure out what your average/expected joint expenses are, and maintain a joint account that will cover that, and then everything else goes into your separate accounts. So your savings and all personal spending then is separate. This allows you to both figure out what is an appropriate level of money to contribute to a joint account:

Let's say you both agree that $5k per month covers all of your joint expenses plus maybe a little fluff to slowly build up a joint savings account for the one-off expenses. So you might negotiate that you both contribute $2500 per month to the joint account and then the rest of each of your incomes goes into your personal account to save or spend as you see fit. Or if you make differing incomes, maybe you decide to split the $5k cost proportionally based on income. From there, you can also have a joint credit card where joint expenses like gas, groceries, etc are charged, and personal credit cards for clothes, going out for drinks with friends, etc. Whatever you both agree on are considered personal expenses.

The important thing with this is being able to sit down every so often and compare where things are at with personal expenses. The point isn't to "hide" your personal funds from each other, just to manage your own separate finances. It's still important to agree on transparency and actually know how much each other is saving or spending on your own. This also only works if you really sit down and work out what your common goals are, what you consider joint expenses, and what you both agree happens if your joint expenses are higher or lower than expected. My fiance and I have been doing this since we bought a house together almost 2 years ago, and it works just fine. But we both were also very much on the same page in terms of how we handle finances from the start. Neither of us are big spenders, both of us like to save and are money conscious, etc. But I would have no problem showing him my bank info any time he wanted or vice versa. We also are both 100% on the same page about what happens if 1 of us falls on hard times financially. My finance was laid off this past summer unexpectedly because his CEO was an ass and outsources an arm of the association without telling folks. He got a nice severance and his happily building his own business and it's going well. And for now, he's living off of the severance and slowly building his own income in such a way that he's still been able to contribute the same amount to our joint account that he was before. But he and I also both know that if need be, we could easily adjust that proportion so he contributes less while he builds a business. Or worst case if the business flops he would easily be able to find another well paying IT job. In your case, it comes down to understanding, that how would you both handle things financially if things happen (kids and you take maternity leave, major medical expenses, etc.).

While I get that lots of people are equating the need for joint finances to be all about trust, or 2 people becoming 1, or whatever other sentimental ideals people have.... the bottom line is that finances are finances. If you WANT to combine that and do everything as a team, cool. But there's no rule that says you have to, and frankly I don't think that wanting to keep separate finances needs to be a value judgement about how much someone loves another person. And quite honestly, when 50% of all marriages end in divorce, it's really not unreasonable to say "I love you and I hope that we stay together forever, but I also accept that sometimes people can change and neither of us can predict the future. So at least if we maintain some level of separate finances we never have to worry about what would happen down the road if our lives don't go the way we both hope they actually do."

Also, it means that neither of you has to worry about 1 nagging the other over how much that purse cost, or those sneakers cost. Or what did you spend on that thing you bought?!

For those that discuss how you need joint if 1 spouse doesn't work.... that also isn't true. If both parties agree up front that the income is shared between the 2 parties, then you can negotiate and have agreements on what that share is. Be it 50/50, 60/40, whatever. And at that point, you then treat those shares as if they were separate income, and then can actually follow the same exact exercise. Of course, it relies on both people sticking to that agreement, but that's where the trust comes in... or you write up and sign that agreement.

Sure, marriage is about 2 people that love each other making a commitment, but a relationship or a marriage is what those 2 people make of it and what works for them. Not some prescribed set of actions and requirements from society.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Me too late to the party but I'm in the joint party camp. However more than joint finances did you decide what to do about kids? So you have a kid that you wanted and he was ambivalent about. Will he support you 100%? What if you can't work because the baby has special needs (I have multiple friends like this.) What if you have a child or children who require A LOT of work and aren't "special needs" per se?

Did you discuss how to handle the situation where you can't work? Get injured on the job. Laid off and can't find work in a recession making the same amount or needing a career change? What happens if a promotion is offered and you want to move? Or he's asked to move and you don't want to leave your job?

These are sort of tangential to your money question and often I think are related to the joint versus separate finances. I truly believe you can live with separate finances. Completely you can run a marriage by an accounting book. Paying 30/70 or 50/50 by income. But I think that the couples who are successful have discussed finances in depth and talked about being a TEAM still.

If you lose your job can your boyfriend pay for all the bills? Let's say you move and can't find a job for 6 months. Will he provide support financially and NOT complain or feel TAKEN advantage of? Will he resent you if you decide to downshift and take a different job that pays less and he has to start paying more because a proportion of income is not 70/30 instead of 55/45? How will that affect your relationship? Because you are a team, but separate finances is it okay to just quit a job because you hate it? Or he hates it? And then go and travel for a year? Or find something different?

If you wanted to start a business or he did, would it be okay to not have income for 3-4 years? How would you manage? If you have to support your parents or give them money will each of you be okay or resentful of the person giving their salary to their family?

Sounds nuts, but all these things I've HEARD before from people. I've heard every variation, seen it, and lived it.

Personally it's been joint mostly because we couldn't afford all the bills on one income. We needed every penny to make ends meet. We don't now and my DH doesn't care. But back then we did. We were scraping by and every dollar had a name or else we weren't making it. But as we grew up, we've been together 19 years and married 14, our choices evolved by circumstances.

I thought i would work full time and I did for about 6 months after my 1st. I thought we'd move and we didn't. We had a second and I wasn't working. Then suddenly we decided to move and not have any job or money. Could I have gotten a job? Yes I considered it. But we made a plan financially and professional and it didn't make sense. So I waited and then went back. Now that i'm working part-time I made my own realization. I don't want to work full time and I don't want a career. I want a job yes, but career no. I'm fine punching a clock. I want my own business possibly.

But if DH had made an agreement of each of us has to earn X, Y, Z and we need to afford A, B, C then we wouldn't be where we are today. So my point is that plans change fast. Did my friends who recently all got divorced (3 in the past year) plan on getting divorced? No. Did it screw them financially? Yes it's harder. Did a co-worker whose husband got laid off in 2016 summer still not find a job? Nope. He had to go back and retrain for the past year. It took a year to give up on his career. Then he had to go back and is now picking up the pieces. My cousin's husband got injured working and had to get a whole new career. It took a lot of money. They lost their house. So finance can change fast.

[jenn_jenn]

Sorry, you can control how people respond to a question, particularly one where you specifically mention feelings about money. You might have had responses like you wrote above if you simply said what are the pros and cons of joint finances versus separate. Instead you brought the personal part into the equation with your question. Money is definitely personal as you know, that's why you received personal emotional opinions.

I'm glad you communicated further with your partner and have a plan that you are both comfortable with going forward. That is the best outcome in the end and only the two you can decide what is right for you.

To clarify, I acknowledged my part in the personal responses. I would not be as open with everyone on personal details if I were to re-write this thread or my responses to follow up questions.

I was merely disagreeing with Steve that responses to this question have to focus on the personal side. I wasn’t trying to “control” anyone’s answer.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

To clarify, I acknowledged my part in the personal responses. I would not be as open with everyone on personal details if I were to re-write this thread or my responses to follow up questions.

I was merely disagreeing with Steve that responses to this question have to focus on the personal side. I wasn’t trying to “control” anyone’s answer.

Taking all personal responses out of it. You say he changed his mind. Did you discuss what happens if you are ever unemployed? Or choosing not to work? Is he fully supportive that no matter he will support you financially once married?