Prenup Advice!

[Jon991]

Whether or not you have a pre-nup you need to completely combine your financial lives after you are married. It's not her money, my money, it's our money. Same with all your assets, it's not my house, it's our house.

Forget about the divorce rate -- we set a rule before we got married "never say the D word" That simply means we don't bring it up during disagreements or even talk about it happening to us.

This makes perfect sense if you live in la la land. Protect those assets young man. If you both had nothing, or were bringing equal assets to the marriage, i'd say don't bother. However, with the asset difference you have discribed, you need to do the smart thing and protect yourself. "Our money" only applies to the money you accomulate together while you are married. Don't anyone tell you otherwise.

If your girlfriend referes to sign that pre-nup, run (don't walk) in the other direction. If she is a good person, she will put herself in your shoes and understand your position.

[Petunia 100]

This is how we feel. When we got married, we agreed to spend our lives together. We combined everything. No more mine and hers. Just ours. Divorce isn't something we think about or consider an option. Til death do us part.

Obviously, I know plenty of people who have married and divorced. Quite honestly, in every single case I can think of, we (friends and family) knew from day one that the marriage wouldn't last because the two were completely incompatible but got married anyway for some reason. I've said before the problem isn't that the divorce rate is too high. The problem is that the marriage rate is too high. People get married who have no business getting married and then act all surprised and hurt when it ends in divorce. Marry the right person and it won't be an issue. And be committed to working on the relationship every day for the rest of your lives. Marriage is hard and too many people are all to quick to head for the exit when the going gets tough.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all got it right the first time?

[disneysteve]

"Our money" only applies to the money you accomulate together while you are married. Don't anyone tell you otherwise.

If your girlfriend referes to sign that pre-nup, run (don't walk) in the other direction. If she is a good person, she will put herself in your shoes and understand your position.

I respectfully disagree. I think this is a sad view of marriage. My wife and I combined everything when we got married 20 years ago. I earn about 12 times what she earns and have absolutely no complaint about that. It's a non-issue to us.

I just find the whole idea of a prenup distasteful. It sends a totally wrong message for two people supposedly entering a lifetime relationship.

[dawnwes]

She has saved $30K. That speaks volumes to me. 98% of 26 year olds don't even have a significant savings account.

I didn't at 26. I was single, made a decent income, and spent it. My husband was the saver. We got married at 29. He had about $25K saved and I had debt of about $3K.

One thing we did do before marriage is talk about money and how to spend it. That is a work in progress but we are definitely on the same page.

We have been married 17 years and no plans to change our marital status.

[DRILLINDK]

Get the prenup.

I'm in a similar situation and will be getting a prenup if my lawyer advises me to.

[breathemusic]

Sure, it sucks to hash out the details of "well if this doesn't work out, here's what we're gonna do," but I don't think that being rational enough to face that possibility means that you're assuming the marriage won't make it. That would be like saying buying term life insurance between the ages of 25 and 50 is like assuming you're going to die young. No one WANTs to die young.... but that doesn't mean there isn't a chance it will happen. And the possibility shouldn't be ignored.

I think it's great to combine things once you get married... but that doesn't change the fact that if the unfortunate circumstances of a divorce were to come about, you're now going to have to re-divide what you previously combined. And in that case, it's only fair to be able to say "I brought X to the table before hand, all on my own, and it should stay mine in the event of a divorce." Sure, if you stay married, you share it. Great. Wonderful. But that's not the situation the a pre-nup deals with.

And considering you plan to retire that early, and you have such a disparity in income and savings, you def need to get one. It's not just protection for you. From your future wife's perspective, what if you guys have kids and decide that she will be a stay at home mom and you're still working? If you get divorced, a pre-nup could be set up to outline the kind of alimony that she would be entitled to since she may have lost years of current work experience and have trouble re-entering the work force. There are many situations that pre-nup can help with.

[disneysteve]

it's only fair to be able to say "I brought X to the table before hand, all on my own, and it should stay mine in the event of a divorce."

That makes sense, but do you need a pre-nup for that to happen? I don't know that much about divorce proceedings so educate me here. If my wife and I were to split up, it would be quite simple for me to provide documentation showing what I had coming into the relationship. I could show brokerage statements, financial statements, tax forms, etc. proving what I had when. Would it take a pre-nup for the court to agree that those assets are mine and should remain mine? Or does the pre-nup just "guarantee" that will happen? I put guarantee in quotes because I suspect that even a pre-nup isn't iron-clad once the lawyers get a hold of it.

[Jon991]

That makes sense, but do you need a pre-nup for that to happen? I don't know that much about divorce proceedings so educate me here. If my wife and I were to split up, it would be quite simple for me to provide documentation showing what I had coming into the relationship. I could show brokerage statements, financial statements, tax forms, etc. proving what I had when. Would it take a pre-nup for the court to agree that those assets are mine and should remain mine? Or does the pre-nup just "guarantee" that will happen? I put guarantee in quotes because I suspect that even a pre-nup isn't iron-clad once the lawyers get a hold of it.

Sounds like someone is changing their tune...

...yes, it is possible to lose what you had prior to marriage if state laws don't say otherwise. A good lawyer can get anything.

[disneysteve]

A good lawyer can get anything.

Can a good lawyer also get assets that were supposedly protected by a pre-nup?

[Jon991]

Can a good lawyer also get assets that were supposedly protected by a pre-nup?

Maybe...but having a pre-nup can better your argument. That is why a good lawyer will tell you to get a pre-nup WELL BEFORE your wedding date, so that an argument that the spouse was tricked into signing one at the last minute does not hold true.

Think of it in the same context as buying insurance. When your roof blows off due to a hurricane, I ma sure your insurance company will somehow try to deny coverage, but at the end of the day, 9 times out of 10, they will cover the damages.

If you have a pre-nup, 9 times out of 10, it will hold up when contested in court.

To the OP, i'll say it again, get the pre-nup, I am speaking from personal experience here.

[PMMM]

Forget about the prenup for now. I'd suggest you focus on discussing finances, spending and saving with her. What are her thoughts. Is she not saving much because she doesn't earn much? Or is she not saving much because saving isn't important to her? Or is she not saving much because she just doesn't pay attention or doesn't know how to go about it or just doesn't care? Those are all different things.

Before seriously considering marrying this woman, you need to learn her thoughts about money management. The fact that she is 26 and has nearly 30K saved tells me that she at least knows how to save and recognizes the value of doing so. There are many people twice her age who don't have that much set aside so she may be better off than you think.

Once you determine that the two of you are on the same page when it comes to finances, that might be the appropriate time to bring up your situation and details about your personal wealth and see what she has to say.

Do you do a prenup? Personally, I'm opposed to the idea of planning for your divorce before you've even gotten married. But if you and she together agree that doing something to protect your interests in the event of divorce is the way to go, then talk about it more at that point. Just be prepared. What are you going to do if she doesn't want to sign one? Will that be a deal-breaker for you in the relationship? If it is, then the relationship is doomed anyway.

Sorry, but I just don't see the point. If you get her to sign a prenup, both of you are going into the marriage thinking about what happens when it ends. If she won't sign a prenup, either you break up or you still get married and you spend the whole time worrying about what happens to your money if you get divorced and that just poisons the relationship. I can't see any way that this is a positive to make for a long, happy, trusting marriage.

100% agree with this answer. It's the best way to go!

[PMMM]

I respectfully disagree. I think this is a sad view of marriage. My wife and I combined everything when we got married 20 years ago. I earn about 12 times what she earns and have absolutely no complaint about that. It's a non-issue to us.

I just find the whole idea of a prenup distasteful. It sends a totally wrong message for two people supposedly entering a lifetime relationship.

Again I agree with Steve. My wife and I have been married for 29 years (30 in November) and I have always been the breadwinner. Since day one finances have been combined and we too agreed that once married we're in it for life. In fact we have a marriage contract that is framed and signed by us and our children that hangs in our bedroom.

Yea we have our disagreements over money and otherwise but we always go to be with it solved and we affirm that marriage contract daily. It's a decision we made together when we said "I do".

Maybe it's an age thing. LOL.

I believe that once lawyers are involved you'll be lucky to keep the money even if you have a prenup. First off a good lawyer can keep a case like this tied up for years in court and with that the bloodsuckers will take your money faster than you can say pre-nup.

[EEinNJ]

Read the story of Russell, in the General Discussion forum. This poor guy is going through lots of stress & legal wrangling after being surprised his wife left. It happens, sad but true.

I applaud those of you in long-term marriages, no doubt tested at times, but still secure. The common thread I see in those stories is you started out together on equal footing, even if one didn't earn income, and there seems to be trust and a loyalty to a common good.

Though it's not the OP's situation, I think for later-in-life or second marriages, a pre-nup and a degree of independent finance makes sense. Recently I was talking with a recently re-married woman with kids from the first marriage. Because of the kids and responsibilities for them (like college)with her new spouse she had a "yours, mine, & ours" arrangement. I thought that was very sensible.

And yes, despite agreements and trying to protect yourself by keeping things separate, lawyers will claw away at that, creating greed and hard feelings while they enrich themselves. They prey on people's emotional investment, and use the promise of money as a way to make up for the hurt.

[Christian321]

...I believe that once lawyers are involved you'll be lucky to keep the money even if you have a prenup. First off a good lawyer can keep a case like this tied up for years in court and with that the bloodsuckers will take your money faster than you can say pre-nup.[/QUOTE]

Good point, I hate using lawyers as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't having the Pre-nup speed up the divorse proceedings? Again, I hate to focus on divorce when I am not even married yet, but I just want to be prepared just in case.

Thanks for all the advice everybody! I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I have decided to go forward with a pre-nup. I have spoken to a couple lawyers and financial advisors. Both have advised me that since I would be bringing in close to half a million dollars into this marriage, it would be very wise to have a pre-nup. In my case, I was advised that there would be ZERO benefit to NOT have one (with the exception of an awkward conversation with my girlfriend) and every reason in the world to have one....just in case.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Is everything joint after marriage?