Prenup Advice!

[Christian321]

Hi all, new member here. I have a question for you all. I have been debating this in my mind and I don't know if I am being resonable or paranoid. Here is the deal:

I have been dating my girlfriend for about two years now. I love her very much and want to ask her to marry me. I very much trust her but the little voice in back of my head keeps reminding me about the divorce rate in America. Now, I know nothing can be less romantic than asking your partner to sign a prenup, but I am thinking that given my situation, one IS neccessary.

I want to disclose the following because I want you to understand my financial position so you can best answer my question: I am 31 years old and have saved $450,000. I did not invest in the stock market but rather CDs and online savings accounts. The money I have saved is a simply a result of a very frugal lifesyle (living below my means) and making an honest commitment to saving. I have sacrificed like crazy to save this money, saving 80% of my income for the last 7 years...that is why I am protective of it. I also have a house with a mortgage that is about 5 years from payoff.

Additionally, I earn 3 times what my Girlfriend earns. While I can't say she is a heavy spender, I can't really classify her as a saver either. She is 26 and has saved less than $30,000. She is not a home owner or paying on a mortgage. Having said this, she has never once given me the impression that she is a gold digger or a big spender. However, like I said, I am worried simply based on the divorce rate in this country. To make mstters worse, my brother is now going though a nasty divorse with his soon to be ex wife. He told me to make sure and get a prenup. Had he had one, it would have saved him a whole lot of headaches.

Your thoughts? Pre-nup or just take the plunge? I am just a nervous guy trying to protect my assets. Am I being a jerk here or being unreasonable? I don't think so...

Thanks everyone.

[jIM_Ohio]

trust your gut, bring it up before you propose...

[disneysteve]

Forget about the prenup for now. I'd suggest you focus on discussing finances, spending and saving with her. What are her thoughts. Is she not saving much because she doesn't earn much? Or is she not saving much because saving isn't important to her? Or is she not saving much because she just doesn't pay attention or doesn't know how to go about it or just doesn't care? Those are all different things.

Before seriously considering marrying this woman, you need to learn her thoughts about money management. The fact that she is 26 and has nearly 30K saved tells me that she at least knows how to save and recognizes the value of doing so. There are many people twice her age who don't have that much set aside so she may be better off than you think.

Once you determine that the two of you are on the same page when it comes to finances, that might be the appropriate time to bring up your situation and details about your personal wealth and see what she has to say.

Do you do a prenup? Personally, I'm opposed to the idea of planning for your divorce before you've even gotten married. But if you and she together agree that doing something to protect your interests in the event of divorce is the way to go, then talk about it more at that point. Just be prepared. What are you going to do if she doesn't want to sign one? Will that be a deal-breaker for you in the relationship? If it is, then the relationship is doomed anyway.

Sorry, but I just don't see the point. If you get her to sign a prenup, both of you are going into the marriage thinking about what happens when it ends. If she won't sign a prenup, either you break up or you still get married and you spend the whole time worrying about what happens to your money if you get divorced and that just poisons the relationship. I can't see any way that this is a positive to make for a long, happy, trusting marriage.

[dczech09]

I think a pre-nup may be wise. I am not "for" pre-nups; I am for smart financial decisions.

I do not see a pre-nup as planning a divorce. I see it as divorce insurance. Stuff happens in this world. People change, times change, circumstances change, etc. You should have something signed that says in the event of a divorce, basically you don't get hosed and your girlfriend does not get hosed either.

You want to make the marriage a clean match-up. But in the event of a divorce, you want it to be a clean break-up. A pre-nup can help with this.

Personally I do not understand the negative view of a pre-nup. Some see at it as taboo or bad, but I see it as smart. Just like life insurance, wills, POAs, trusts, and tax shelters.

[sblatner]

Where do you live? In California, we have community property earned during the marriage, but what we bring in to the marriage is our own. I would suggest talking to a lawyer just to find out what your rights are. You may not need a prenup if what is yours before the marriage would be yours after the marriage. A lawyer could give you tips on how to keep your pre-marriage money/property separate.

[EEinNJ]

A pre-nup might have saved me quite a bit of money, time and aggravation, so I would say, because of the asset disparity between you, YES!

That said, a pre-nup won't stop you from having financial fights & problems. It will only smooth the exit if you can't work it out! And of course, you want to not even have problems, and if you do you don't want to be so far apart that dealing with them is too difficult.

So besides the pre-nup, ask yourself whether your frugal lifestyle is at odds with how she lives. How about when she says "Honey, you're not a bachelor any more- we need a nicer house, with nice new furniture". Or a year or 2 later, when she says little Johnny is on the way- and then you need a big new car. And so on.

[skydivingchic]

sblanter - The problem with depending on the laws of the state is that laws change and people move. Maybe OP lives in California and those laws are how he (and his girlfriend?) would like things handled in the event of a divorce. But what if the law changes after marriage but before a breakup? What if they move to another state that doesn't handle things the same way?

OP - I think a pre-nup is likely a good idea in your case. However, I agree with much of what DisneySteve said. You need to sit down and have a talk with your girlfriend about her views of saving and spending. To be clear, saving 80% of your income is great, but likely a tad overboard. But if that is the way you want to live and no other way is acceptable, well you better be for finding someone else who wants to live like that with you.

You say you make 3 times what she makes. When you make less money, a greater percentage of it has to go to necessities. Gas and groceries cost the same whether you make $20,000 or $200,000. Yes, there are things you can do to cut grocery spending for instance, but the price of a pound of hamburger is not based on your income. So it is entirely possible that she is saving a good portion of her income. These are the things you need to discuss with her. Do NOT marry her if you guys can't come to sustainable agreements or compromises about how finances will be handled.

[Christian321]

Where do you live? In California, we have community property earned during the marriage, but what we bring in to the marriage is our own. I would suggest talking to a lawyer just to find out what your rights are. You may not need a prenup if what is yours before the marriage would be yours after the marriage. A lawyer could give you tips on how to keep your pre-marriage money/property separate.

I live in Florida. What I bring into my marriage is said to be my own here in Florida but I have heard stories about this not holding up in court in some cases. I was told a Pre-nup would guard against this. I will make an appointment to speak with a lawyer to get the details. Thanks for the advice.

[Christian321]

Forget about the prenup for now. I'd suggest you focus on discussing finances, spending and saving with her. What are her thoughts. Is she not saving much because she doesn't earn much? Or is she not saving much because saving isn't important to her? Or is she not saving much because she just doesn't pay attention or doesn't know how to go about it or just doesn't care? Those are all different things.

Before seriously considering marrying this woman, you need to learn her thoughts about money management. The fact that she is 26 and has nearly 30K saved tells me that she at least knows how to save and recognizes the value of doing so. There are many people twice her age who don't have that much set aside so she may be better off than you think.

Once you determine that the two of you are on the same page when it comes to finances, that might be the appropriate time to bring up your situation and details about your personal wealth and see what she has to say.

Do you do a prenup? Personally, I'm opposed to the idea of planning for your divorce before you've even gotten married. But if you and she together agree that doing something to protect your interests in the event of divorce is the way to go, then talk about it more at that point. Just be prepared. What are you going to do if she doesn't want to sign one? Will that be a deal-breaker for you in the relationship? If it is, then the relationship is doomed anyway.

Sorry, but I just don't see the point. If you get her to sign a prenup, both of you are going into the marriage thinking about what happens when it ends. If she won't sign a prenup, either you break up or you still get married and you spend the whole time worrying about what happens to your money if you get divorced and that just poisons the relationship. I can't see any way that this is a positive to make for a long, happy, trusting marriage.

Don't get me wrong, I am not picking on her because she ONLY has $30,000 saved. I realize that she is doing very well compared to others. However, I am concerned about the money I have saved and will be bringing into the marriage. Also, I always watch what I spend, whereas she is looser with her money. So far, we have gotten along great over the two years we have been together. I save 80% of my income because I want to retire at 45 when I leave the militray and never work for anyone again. She knows how important it is for me to retire early and she said she is definetly onboard with the plan.

I would never be asking for a prenup if I had not been saving like crazy all this time or if we were coming into the marraige with equal assets. Just trying to protect myself since this is not a perfect world. Things happen, people can change, situations can change. I really do not think I am being unreasonable.

[Christian321]

A pre-nup might have saved me quite a bit of money, time and aggravation, so I would say, because of the asset disparity between you, YES!

That said, a pre-nup won't stop you from having financial fights & problems. It will only smooth the exit if you can't work it out! And of course, you want to not even have problems, and if you do you don't want to be so far apart that dealing with them is too difficult.

So besides the pre-nup, ask yourself whether your frugal lifestyle is at odds with how she lives. How about when she says "Honey, you're not a bachelor any more- we need a nicer house, with nice new furniture". Or a year or 2 later, when she says little Johnny is on the way- and then you need a big new car. And so on.

Thanks for the good advice. She seems to be on board with my goals. We both share similar goals in that we would like to retire early. We have lived together for the last two years and it has been working great. However, I am still concenered about the difference in nest eggs we have saved. I am not worried about our personalities clashing.

[Petunia 100]

I don't think you're being unreasonable, either. I think a pre-nup is smart planning.

However, I also think the two of you have some things to discuss before marriage. You say she is more willing to spend than you are. How will you handle that? You both need to compromise. Trying to force a spouse to do or not do something breeds resentment and is not good for the long-term health of the marriage.

[Christian321]

I think a pre-nup may be wise. I am not "for" pre-nups; I am for smart financial decisions.

I do not see a pre-nup as planning a divorce. I see it as divorce insurance. Stuff happens in this world. People change, times change, circumstances change, etc. You should have something signed that says in the event of a divorce, basically you don't get hosed and your girlfriend does not get hosed either.

You want to make the marriage a clean match-up. But in the event of a divorce, you want it to be a clean break-up. A pre-nup can help with this.

Personally I do not understand the negative view of a pre-nup. Some see at it as taboo or bad, but I see it as smart. Just like life insurance, wills, POAs, trusts, and tax shelters.

Thanks! I am thinking teh way you are.

[Christian321]

don't do it

don't do what? Marriage or Pre-nup?

[DebtFree&Broke]

I have been dating my girlfriend for about two years now. I love her very much and want to ask her to marry me. I very much trust her but the little voice in back of my head keeps reminding me about the divorce rate in America. Now, I know nothing can be less romantic than asking your partner to sign a prenup, but I am thinking that given my situation, one IS neccessary.

I want to disclose the following because I want you to understand my financial position so you can best answer my question: I am 31 years old and have saved $450,000. I did not invest in the stock market but rather CDs and online savings accounts. The money I have saved is a simply a result of a very frugal lifesyle (living below my means) and making an honest commitment to saving. I have sacrificed like crazy to save this money, saving 80% of my income for the last 7 years...that is why I am protective of it. I also have a house with a mortgage that is about 5 years from payoff.

Additionally, I earn 3 times what my Girlfriend earns. While I can't say she is a heavy spender, I can't really classify her as a saver either. She is 26 and has saved less than $30,000. She is not a home owner or paying on a mortgage. Having said this, she has never once given me the impression that she is a gold digger or a big spender. However, like I said, I am worried simply based on the divorce rate in this country. To make mstters worse, my brother is now going though a nasty divorse with his soon to be ex wife. He told me to make sure and get a prenup. Had he had one, it would have saved him a whole lot of headaches.

Your thoughts? Pre-nup or just take the plunge? I am just a nervous guy trying to protect my assets. Am I being a jerk here or being unreasonable? I don't think so...

Thanks everyone.

Whether or not you have a pre-nup you need to completely combine your financial lives after you are married. It's not her money, my money, it's our money. Same with all your assets, it's not my house, it's our house.

Forget about the divorce rate -- we set a rule before we got married "never say the D word" That simply means we don't bring it up during disagreements or even talk about it happening to us.

[disneysteve]

Whether or not you have a pre-nup you need to completely combine your financial lives after you are married. It's not her money, my money, it's our money. Same with all your assets, it's not my house, it's our house.

Forget about the divorce rate -- we set a rule before we got married "never say the D word" That simply means we don't bring it up during disagreements or even talk about it happening to us.

This is how we feel. When we got married, we agreed to spend our lives together. We combined everything. No more mine and hers. Just ours. Divorce isn't something we think about or consider an option. Til death do us part.

Obviously, I know plenty of people who have married and divorced. Quite honestly, in every single case I can think of, we (friends and family) knew from day one that the marriage wouldn't last because the two were completely incompatible but got married anyway for some reason. I've said before the problem isn't that the divorce rate is too high. The problem is that the marriage rate is too high. People get married who have no business getting married and then act all surprised and hurt when it ends in divorce. Marry the right person and it won't be an issue. And be committed to working on the relationship every day for the rest of your lives. Marriage is hard and too many people are all to quick to head for the exit when the going gets tough.