Prenup Advice!

[NuggetBrain]

"...squirrling away as much as possible regardless of the sense of it".....

really? Did you read my post? I save not becasue I have an uncontrolable need to do so, but because I have goals in life that I would like to achieve. Like I said in a previous post, I'd like to retire early one day. I feel life is too short to be working into my 60's and
70's.

You can call it "squirrling" if you want to, but I'll call it saving for my future aspirations and goals.

Aspirartions & goals are all fine & dandy, but life happens. Ifyou have kids, if someone develops medical issues, if someone loses their job your goal of retiring at 45 might not be feasible anymore. There is a huge time gap between 45 and your 60's and 70's and I just personally am hearing that you are so fixated on this retiring at 45 that I wonder what your reaction would be if life happened & it wasn't possible.

And yes, I think you are obsessed with the issue of your money. I'm entitled to that opiniom just as you're entitled to think its crap.

[Christian321]

Aspirartions & goals are all fine & dandy, but life happens. Ifyou have kids, if someone develops medical issues, if someone loses their job your goal of retiring at 45 might not be feasible anymore. There is a huge time gap between 45 and your 60's and 70's and I just personally am hearing that you are so fixated on this retiring at 45 that I wonder what your reaction would be if life happened & it wasn't possible.

And yes, I think you are obsessed with the issue of your money. I'm entitled to that opiniom just as you're entitled to think its crap.

Listen...I understand life happens, and if or when it does, the more money my futre wife and I have saved, the better. Therefore squirrling(derogatory term in the context for which you used it) is not the term I would use to describe someones savings habbits.

However, yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and while I hate to be argumentative on threads, your comment required a response from me.

If "life" happens and my future wife and I are not able to retire as we wish, well... then I guess we will still be in a better place in life having tried our best to make it happen.

[Christian321]

>>I'll call it saving for my future aspirations and goals<<

I think that is where some of us are a little puzzled. You seem to want this money to be yours alone in the case of divorce, but how will this money be used in the event you do retire early? Will she also get to retire early and you support both of you and any munchkins you may have or is she going to have to work to support herself until she can retire? When you get around to spending your savings do you plan on including her in the spending? I've been married to a guy for 10 years and our money is mixed and I handle it and as much as possible I'm saving for retirement especially for him as in essence I'm basically retired since I'm disabled. I would really hate to think that he had a good chunk of money squirreled away but it wasn't for us, that it was for him alone.

Please understand that we aren't trying to discourage you from saving or being disrespectful of your goals, but some of us are older (much) and have seen how life works and it isn't always easy or doesn't always go how you would hope. When we got married my hubby and I figured between what he earned in his own business and what I made as a nurse we should have a comfortable lifestyle for our needs. Three weeks after the wedding, I came down sick and never could return to work again, other than some selling on line that I do. Let's just say that the illness made a big difference to our finances and will continue to until I die. Life happens when you don't expect it and no amount of planning can take in every circumstance.

Gailete,

First thank you for your insightful comments above. All good points you make so let me explain. Yes, I am concerned with the money I have saved pre-marriage....just in case the marriage was to end in divorce after a few years (you know, because "life happens"

Real life example for you: my brother is going through a divorce now and he did not have a pre-nup. It is costing him pre-marital assets. I have been advised that with the amount of assets I am bringing into the marriage, it would be very wise for me to get a pre-nup to cover my PRE MARITAL ASSETS only. However, since I was uncomfortable with this idea, I decided to get some advice on this Thread.

Let me get more detailed...My plan is to start a joint account after we are married and contribute to it with my wife (if she works). Once we are married, I would no longer add to "my" $450,000 savings account that I mentioned in the original post. At this point, the money I earn would be "our" money and we would spend it as we agree to. I am not trying to keep all our assets separete here (just pre-marital assets). If she wants to continue to work when I retire, that would be up to her. I am pretty confident that I will be in a position to retire and support my wife and any children by 45 (again, I will not get into specifics with my income) but I can say that I work a job that pays a government pension at 20 years of service (half-way complete). I am also a small business owner. I am not putting all my hopes in the Government Pension to get me to retirement. I just view this pension as a big bonus if I can get it. I am planning and working/saving as if I will never recieve the pension. All significant debts (with the exception of children) will be paid off by then (God willing we remain healthy). My plan is for both of us to retire when I leave my job. If we cannot afford to both stop working, I would continue to work. I would NEVER ask my wife to support me. As we grow older together, I would absolutely share the $450,000 pre martial money with my wife when we needed it.

I am thinking about getting a pre-nup because I just don't want to be one of those guys who gets married and divorced within 2 years and lose $225,000($450,000/2) in pre-marital assets that I have worked so hard to save.

In my original post, I was just looking to get some opinions about how people felt about asking their significant other to sign a pre-nup (i.e. good idea, bad idea, how to go about approaching her about it, etc).

Hope this clears some confusion. Am I being unreasonable? If so, why?

[seen]

I'm going to ask the question no one here has yet asked. Why are you marrying this girl? Because she wants you to? Because you want to? Because you don't want to risk losing her? Why not just remain a couple?

Lots of couples go through life without getting married at all. If you had MILLIONS that's a different story, but $450k is really not that much. Not to mention you took only 7 years to attain it. Do you really not trust her with 7 years (or in the case of divorce 3.5 years) of your life? If you can't, then I would advise against marriage all together until you can value her hand in marriage above your money.

[disneysteve]

My plan is to start a joint account after we are married and contribute to it with my wife (if she works). Once we are married, I would no longer add to "my" $450,000 savings account that I mentioned in the original post. At this point, the money I earn would be "our" money and we would spend it as we agree to. I am not trying to keep all our assets separete here (just pre-marital assets).

So are you saying that your wife and future children wouldn't benefit from your years of saving and the wealth that you've accumulated prior to getting married? At what point, if ever, would you consider that 450K to be a joint asset?

I am thinking about getting a pre-nup because I just don't want to be one of those guys who gets married and divorced within 2 years

Then don't get married to the wrong person or for the wrong reasons. I'm sorry but someone who gets divorced that quickly rushed into it with someone who they didn't know well enough and weren't compatible with. I think I said earlier in the thread, the problem isn't that the divorce rate is too high. The problem is that the marriage rate is too high. And the celebrity world certainly doesn't set a great example with folks divorcing within days or months of getting married.

[Christian321]

I'm going to ask the question no one here has yet asked. Why are you marrying this girl? Because she wants you to? Because you want to? Because you don't want to risk losing her? Why not just remain a couple?

Lots of couples go through life without getting married at all. If you had MILLIONS that's a different story, but $450k is really not that much. Not to mention you took only 7 years to attain it. Do you really not trust her with 7 years (or in the case of divorce 3.5 years) of your life? If you can't, then I would advise against marriage all together until you can value her hand in marriage above your money.

We have talked about marriage but not often. I want to ask her. I have been with her for two years. I may delay my proposal to think this though a while longer.

I guess it's personal opinion but I feel $450,00 is significant.

[NuggetBrain]

We have talked about marriage but not often. I want to ask her. I have been with her for two years. I may delay my proposal to think this though a while longer.

I guess it's personal opinion but I feel $450,00 is significant.

Why would you delay your proposal? Unless you're going to have a shotgun wedding you have more than enough time to get the pre-nup stuff figured out before you walk down the aisle.

[Christian321]

So are you saying that your wife and future children wouldn't benefit from your years of saving and the wealth that you've accumulated prior to getting married? At what point, if ever, would you consider that 450K to be a joint asset?


Then don't get married to the wrong person or for the wrong reasons. I'm sorry but someone who gets divorced that quickly rushed into it with someone who they didn't know well enough and weren't compatible with. I think I said earlier in the thread, the problem isn't that the divorce rate is too high. The problem is that the marriage rate is too high. And the celebrity world certainly doesn't set a great example with folks divorcing within days or months of getting married.

If needed in emergency situation and we did not otherwise have it, yes. But my gf and I have more than enough income to quickly biuld up multiple months worth of income to meet our needs. Why would I need to incorporate this $450,000 so early on in our marriage.

DisneySteve: I hope that I can have as successful a marriage as you seem to have someday. My brother and his soon to be ex-wife were with each other 10 years before they got married (lived together for nine!). I swore they wold be together forever but he finds himself going through a divorce now

I would consider the $450,000 a joint asset as our marriage progresses. That would not be an issue since we would already have a house to live in. All child/marriage expenses can be paid for using our current income. I see no reason to tap into that $450,000 the few years of marriage.

[Christian321]

Why would you delay your proposal? Unless you're going to have a shotgun wedding you have more than enough time to get the pre-nup stuff figured out before you walk down the aisle.

I need to spend more time talking to her about finances and spending habbits. I just want to be certain that we are set up for success and are 100% on the same page in terms of how we will spend our money.

[seen]

I guess it's personal opinion but I feel $450,00 is significant.

Correction: $225k.

But of course I'm speaking in relative terms. Marriage is ALSO significant. You're basically telling this forum that you're considering placing a lifetime of happiness in jeopardy over a measly 3.5 years of your life.

I get it. You want to protect yourself. Like you, at the moment I too am saving roughly 80% of my income. But no matter how you slice it up, in the end you're asking her to enter a trustless marriage which, in my opinion is just a precursor to disappointment.

[Christian321]

Correction: $225k.

But of course I'm speaking in relative terms. Marriage is ALSO significant. You're basically telling this forum that you're considering placing a lifetime of happiness in jeopardy over a measly 3.5 years of your life.

I get it. You want to protect yourself. Like you, at the moment I too am saving roughly 80% of my income. But no matter how you slice it up, in the end you're asking her to enter a trustless marriage which, in my opinion is just a precursor to disappointment.

I agree, it is the most unromantic thing EVER. But it's concerning me because two lawyers and every financial advisor I talk to is saying I need a pre-nup.

[roflskates]

I think asking for the pre-nup is reasonable and you have the right to do so. If the girl you're marrying is understanding and she understands how much this may mean to you, she shouldn't have a problem signing it, (if she is in this marriage for the long haul, the pre-up doesn't affect anything as everything eventually becomes joint anyway.)

[disneysteve]

it's concerning me because two lawyers and every financial advisor I talk to is saying I need a pre-nup.

Asking a lawyer who prepares pre-nups for a living if he thinks you should have a pre-nup really isn't an unbiased opinion. That alone doesn't make the advice bad but there is certainly a conflict of interest there.

[NuggetBrain]

Asking a lawyer who prepares pre-nups for a living if he thinks you should have a pre-nup really isn't an unbiased opinion. That alone doesn't make the advice bad but there is certainly a conflict of interest there.

Exactly. And, if I may say, if you don't know her spending habits enough after 2 years & living together then I have a feeling you are GREATLY overthinking this. Seriously, you're approaching this like its a business merger. She's got more money saved than a lot of people I know twice her age. Obviously she takes saving seriously.

[disneysteve]

DisneySteve: I hope that I can have as successful a marriage as you seem to have someday. My brother and his soon to be ex-wife were with each other 10 years before they got married (lived together for nine!). I swore they wold be together forever but he finds himself going through a divorce now

I would consider the $450,000 a joint asset as our marriage progresses. That would not be an issue since we would already have a house to live in. All child/marriage expenses can be paid for using our current income. I see no reason to tap into that $450,000 the few years of marriage.

my brother is now going though a nasty divorse with his soon to be ex wife. He told me to make sure and get a prenup. Had he had one, it would have saved him a whole lot of headaches.

Would it really have helped him? You said he lived with his wife for 9 years before getting married. Getting a pre-nup before the wedding would have been tough since they were functioning as a couple for 9 years at that point. What assets would have been protected? Seems to me only things that he brought into the relationship 10 years earlier would have counted, not what was accumulated once they were together, especially once they were living together.

I would consider the $450,000 a joint asset as our marriage progresses.

When and how? After one year? After five? After 10? What makes any one moment in time better than another? I know people who divorced within a year or two. I also know people who divorced after 25 years of marriage. Your own brother is divorcing after more than 10 years together with his wife. At what point, if ever, would you say, "We are a couple and all of our assets are joint and to be used together as we see fit." As long as you are holding this money back as a personal asset, it will be a wedge between you both.