Should struggling families tithe?

[jpg7n16]

Upfront note to readers: this thread deals with a religious topic of tithing (specifically Christian beliefs on tithing) - but as it does have impact on personal finance, I feel it's relevant. If you do not believe in tithing at all, please don't bring up any "anti-ANY-form-of-tithing arguments" - but for those of us who do believe that we should tithe, please consider the question in blue.

The subject was raised as a portion of another thread, if a family is struggling should they tithe during that time? As it was sort of a side issue, I created this thread to discuss that issue in particular.

Here were my personal thoughts on the issue:



Warning: Okay this is going to be a religious post on my views of people with barely anything tithing. I still feel they should, but if they don't - there are more important pieces of Christianity (love, justice, mercy, etc.). If you disagree with me, that's fine. It obviously makes more financial sense to keep as much as you can in very hard times, but there are more important reasons to tithe even when you have little.

This is why I feel they should.

One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.
Luke 16:10

1Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, 2and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. 3And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 4For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”
Luke 21:1-4

Yes, you wouldn't cut off 10% of your life preserver if you were drowning, but I don't think you should forget that God supplies you with all you have, even if it's not much - and I feel you should honor Him with the little that you have. The tithe is more about honoring the Giver of all things.

Cutting off 10% of a life jacket causes the other 90% to be worthless. But giving 10% to God will not adversely affect the other 90%.

And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:19


[/personal religious views]

[jpg7n16]

jpg,

While I "respect" your belief, I do not agree with that answer.

I cannot believe that any loving, caring God would encourage a "head" of household to make a choice (to tithe) when potentially the family is hurting.

What does the Bible say about a Christian going into debt?

Okay well, how little is too little?

If a family has $60k of income, but has incurred substantial debt and is struggling because of it - do they qualify to quit tithing? (again in my view, I equate tithing with an act of honoring God as the Giver of all that we have)

I mean $60k is a lot of income, but maybe not enough for their self-imposed struggles (through too much debt). At what level can you stop giving?

What if tithing hinders your ability to save for retirement? That could arguably hurt a family - but it's never an issue on tithing (nor do I believe it should be).

So I don't think us "hurting" has as much to do with it as us honoring God. Which we should do no matter how high or low our income is.

It could easily be argued that poverty in America is better than middle class in most countries around the world. So should they tithe either? If not them, then who? Only the rich?

Maat descibes this head of household as living as if the "income" were still there -- it's not.

I understand what Luke wrote, and I can respect a woman along choosing to give all that she had... but not if it affects children and others whom have no choice about what is given.

Does this Church NEED this tithe? Whatever amount it is, it means that a family continues to struggle financially. I cannot agree with that.

I can agree with "tithing" or giving when you have extra to do so. There's also giving of time instead of dollars. There's good and bad in the world.... giving is good, but not when there's a limited amount of sustanance for this family. When he has work is when he can give.

I will deal with the 1st statement in the other thread as it's more appropriately discussing over there.

But as far as answering "does the Church NEED this tithe?" Absolutely not. But that has nothing to do with it. The temple did not NEED the widow's two coins. But how else would she honor God with what He had given her? Jesus commended the woman for her faith in God - that He would be able to provide for her, though she didn't know how.

The church's financial need has nothing to do with whether we should or should not honor God with what He has given us.

Any earned income is from work. So when has he earned enough to give to God? The fact that he's in America means he'll likely earn more than 90% of the world will this year - even while he's on temp income. (or unemployment)

The smaller his income, the less impact of the tithe. I mean if you only made $800 this month, it's not that far to $720. Yes that $80 extra dollars would help, but the situation is still bad either way. Why not honor God even in the bad times?


I'm just explaining where I'm coming from - I dont expect many people to believe the same as I do. And that's fine.

[Seeker]

Okay well, how little is too little?

If a family has $60k of income, but has incurred substantial debt and is struggling because of it - do they qualify to quit tithing? (again in my view, I equate tithing with an act of honoring God as the Giver of all that we have).

I mean $60k is a lot of income, but maybe not enough for their self-imposed struggles (through too much debt). At what level can you stop giving?

LOL -- no one ever really stops giving. Financial giving is not the only kind.

But in striving to answer that question, I'd suggest that if a person is supporting some other person (or more specifically: people or persons who cannot help themselves) and has an "income" in the true sense of the word (ie. gainfully employed or self-employed and is making moeny at it), then they can financially give if they so desire.

What if tithing hinders your ability to save for retirement? That could arguably hurt a family - but it's never an issue on tithing (nor do I believe it should be).

So I don't think us "hurting" has as much to do with it as us honoring God. Which we should do no matter how high or low our income is.

It could easily be argued that poverty in America is better than middle class in most countries around the world. So should they tithe either? If not them, then who? Only the rich?

God isn't tangible; people are tangible.

Your view is that any tithe "honors" God. But the reality is that as head of household, the more responsible thing to honor, is your duty to help provide for the well being of the family you created. The more responsible thing to provide for is your own future well being such that YOU will not need to go back to the Church and ask for help for your family.

But as far as answering "does the Church NEED this tithe?" Absolutely not. But that has nothing to do with it. The temple did not NEED the widow's two coins. But how else would she honor God with what He had given her? Jesus commended the woman for her faith in God - that He would be able to provide for her, though she didn't know how.

Luke's quote is about a widow. She knew that she did not need that two coins that day; she she gave it all. She had no children, no husband; all she had was love. She did what she wanted to do.

The church's financial need has nothing to do with whether we should or should not honor God with what He has given us.

Any earned income is from work. So when has he earned enough to give to God? The fact that he's in America means he'll likely earn more than 90% of the world will this year - even while he's on temp income. (or unemployment)

The smaller his income, the less impact of the tithe. I mean if you only made $800 this month, it's not that far to $720. Yes that $80 extra dollars would help, but the situation is still bad either way. Why not honor God even in the bad times?

I'm just explaining where I'm coming from - I dont expect many people to believe the same as I do. And that's fine.

JPG, I have no issues with any portion of earnings going toward whatever it's designated for.

I do have issues with giving money to an entity or an ideal when there is NO income. Zero dollars earned.

Until there's true "income," there's only mounting debts from this family where the HoH (head-of-household) is choosing to give to an entity, before his own family NEEDS are met.

To me "needs" are those that put a roof over your family's heads and a meal on your children's table. If you can do that under "unemployment," and tithe with your basic needs (and those of your children and SO), then that's fine.

Every single place in this world has differnt cost of living requirements. In another country, the norm might not be to have a roof over your head-- but, that's not the norm in this country. It's unfair to talk about a dollar amount or a percentage amount; no two situations are the same.

He's making a choice for his whole family (and a poor one IMO); the widow was making a choice for herself.

[kork13]

As already stated, this really is a very personal religious question, and one that relies upon your personal faith/beliefs. For myself, I cannot imagine not paying a tithe.... I grew up paying a tithe out of my pocket money, paid it while on a small stipend in college, and pay it now while making probably more than I deserve--to the point now that the monthly check seems surprisingly significant; but it's no more or less than it ever has been: 10% of $80 or 10% of $8,000.

I know that this comes from someone who is rather well-off, but I personally believe that as you put your trust in God, pay tithing first and do the rest from there, that you will be provided for. I have too many friends and family who have faithfully paid tithes even during hardship and come out alright (if not better) to doubt that. It's a simple, basic tenet of belief--one that many people cling to--and one that many will never abandon, no matter the situation. Myself, I consider it a blessing to offer a tithe, and one that I would be loathe to give up.

The realist scoffs at such persuasions, calling it foolish or idealistic or whatever...but my belief is to put God first, make do with what's left, and trust in your faith for the difference. And when no income is earned, of course no monetary tithe would be reasonable.

At the same time, I would also submit that there are more ways than with money to pay a faithful tithe. An offering of time, effort, or labor is just as valuable if money truly cannot be spared. And in the end, it's never about what anybody else thinks about what you do or do not give, but how/if you personally feel that you have faithfully obeyed the law of the tithe.

[cschin4]

The tithe is much more than a legalistic, ritualistic act. God doesn't need anyone's money. The point of tithing is that it is an honoring of God with the blessings you have received and it is often and frequent which teaches the tither to be a regular giver as well. It is more about YOU and your relationship to God than anything else.
And, as part of one's regular act of worship, the tithe should be included. As for financially struggling, one should be careful to not be putting themselves in a position of debt and a bad financial situation because that actually may prevent you from fulfilling God's will in your life. By making God a priority in your life, you then would also make tithing part of your priority as well.
So, to answer, you can give something and give small amounts often. And, over time, you can increase it. But, in reality, a tithe by definition is not a tithe unless it is actually 10%. Otherwise, that isn't a "tithe" but a gift or offering.

[SnoopyCool]

This struggling family tithed.

I know that this comes from someone who is rather well-off, but I personally believe that as you put your trust in God, pay tithing first and do the rest from there, that you will be provided for. I have too many friends and family who have faithfully paid tithes even during hardship and come out alright (if not better) to doubt that. It's a simple, basic tenet of belief--one that many people cling to--and one that many will never abandon, no matter the situation. Myself, I consider it a blessing to offer a tithe, and one that I would be loathe to give up.

The realist scoffs at such persuasions, calling it foolish or idealistic or whatever...but my belief is to put God first, make do with what's left, and trust in your faith for the difference. And when no income is earned, of course no monetary tithe would be reasonable.

At the same time, I would also submit that there are more ways than with money to pay a faithful tithe. An offering of time, effort, or labor is just as valuable if money truly cannot be spared. And in the end, it's never about what anybody else thinks about what you do or do not give, but how/if you personally feel that you have faithfully obeyed the law of the tithe.

I agree 100%. We have tithed throughout our financial hardships and are coming out on top. I can honestly say that I don't know where my family would be without tithing. I have a testimony of the principle of tithing, and the blessings that follow from this.

Sometimes, tithing comes from thinking outside the box (when there's no income to tithe on). There is always a need that could be filled without money.

[littleroc02us]

The old testement spells it out for those of you who are christian. It's tiring to watch people twist this verse around to make it their own. I am not very good at this myself and definetly work at it. I don't feel that I have the right to answer for another Christian except to say that you have already answered your question.

Numbers 18:26

26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering.

[momcents]

In my religion, tuition to the church school is considered tithing. DH doesn't exactly see it that way, and we do contribute what we can to the church (and we support other charities we feel are important). Is it exactly 10%? Who knows. Sometimes it is more. Sometimes it is less. We are fortunate that our parish also considers the gifts of time and talent (which we donate freely and frequently given how active we are).

I believe that it has to do with attitude of generosity and being a good steward of our resources (financially, and otherwise). I don't believe that God has a checklist and is keeping track of the dollars and sense. If one has a generous heart, one will have a generous attitude and generous behaviors (non-self indulgent).

[jpg7n16]

LOL -- no one ever really stops giving. Financial giving is not the only kind.

But in striving to answer that question, I'd suggest that if a person is supporting some other person (or more specifically: people or persons who cannot help themselves) and has an "income" in the true sense of the word (ie. gainfully employed or self-employed and is making moeny at it), then they can financially give if they so desire.

God isn't tangible; people are tangible.

Your view is that any tithe "honors" God. But the reality is that as head of household, the more responsible thing to honor, is your duty to help provide for the well being of the family you created. The more responsible thing to provide for is your own future well being such that YOU will not need to go back to the Church and ask for help for your family.

Very true. Financial giving is not the only kind of giving. Maybe we should give 10% of our time to God too. I wonder how the world would change if we gave 2.4 hours a day to God.

But just because it's not the only kind of giving, does not mean that you shouldn't give financially. Or that you can substitute your tithe with time. If you're struggling, you should use that time to find work anyways.


Jesus said the 1st commandment was to love God with all you have. The 2nd was to love people as yourself.

That means that God comes before people, and even before self. I believe that should hold true for our money as well.

Luke's quote is about a widow. She knew that she did not need that two coins that day; she she gave it all. She had no children, no husband; all she had was love. She did what she wanted to do.

Don't assume because she was a widow that she had no one to care for.

8Then the word of the Lord came to him, 9“Arise, go to Zarephath, which belongs to Sidon, and dwell there. Behold, I have commanded a widow there to feed you.” 10So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, a widow was there gathering sticks. And he called to her and said, “Bring me a little water in a vessel, that I may drink.” 11And as she was going to bring it, he called to her and said, “Bring me a morsel of bread in your hand.” 12And she said, “As the Lord your God lives, I have nothing baked, only a handful of flour in a jar and a little oil in a jug. And now I am gathering a couple of sticks that I may go in and prepare it for myself and my son, that we may eat it and die.” 13And Elijah said to her, “Do not fear; go and do as you have said. But first make me a little cake of it and bring it to me, and afterward make something for yourself and your son. 14For thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘The jar of flour shall not be spent, and the jug of oil shall not be empty, until the day that the Lord sends rain upon the earth.’” 15And she went and did as Elijah said. And she and he and her household ate for many days. 16The jar of flour was not spent, neither did the jug of oil become empty, according to the word of the Lord that he spoke by Elijah.
1 Kings 17:8-16

This is another story about a widow who gave everything she had, and God provided for her anyway.


The truth is, we don't know who this woman in Luke cared for. All we know is she didn't have much, and chose to trust God anyways.

JPG, I have no issues with any portion of earnings going toward whatever it's designated for.

I do have issues with giving money to an entity or an ideal when there is NO income. Zero dollars earned.

Until there's true "income," there's only mounting debts from this family where the HoH (head-of-household) is choosing to give to an entity, before his own family NEEDS are met.

To me "needs" are those that put a roof over your family's heads and a meal on your children's table. If you can do that under "unemployment," and tithe with your basic needs (and those of your children and SO), then that's fine.

Every single place in this world has differnt cost of living requirements. In another country, the norm might not be to have a roof over your head-- but, that's not the norm in this country. It's unfair to talk about a dollar amount or a percentage amount; no two situations are the same.

He's making a choice for his whole family (and a poor one IMO); the widow was making a choice for herself.

If you have no income you should still tithe. Tithe = give 10% to the work of the kingdom of God.

10% * $0 = $0

So a person with $0 income, should tithe in the amount of $0.

But if a person has $800 income for a month, they should tithe $80 - regardless of other expenses they need to pay. You don't tithe based on expenses, you tithe based on income.

The Bible doesn't say, "1st meet all your family's needs; and then with the extra you have, give 10% of that to God."


Income does not mean "excess."

[momcents]

It should be the mentality, versus the equation.

[jpg7n16]

As already stated, this really is a very personal religious question, and one that relies upon your personal faith/beliefs.

I know that this comes from someone who is rather well-off, but I personally believe that as you put your trust in God, pay tithing first and do the rest from there, that you will be provided for.

The tithe is much more than a legalistic, ritualistic act.

I agree with alot of the posts above, these 3 statements in particular.

I don't believe that God has a checklist and is keeping track of the dollars and sense.

Absolutely (even about the 'sense' part though I'm sure that was a misspelling of 'cents' )

You cannot buy your way to heaven, since Jesus paid it all.

[jpg7n16]

It should be the mentality, versus the equation.

I think it should be both. Not versus.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matthew 23:23


Like cschin4 said, the tithe is the first 10%. Anything else is a gift. Giving and tithing are a bit different.

Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
2 Corinthians 9:7

[momcents]

Matthew 6:1-4 (But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father. When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.


Seems to me that giving and tithing is a very personal thing, and each should do it according to their own conscience.

[jpg7n16]

I think the Matt 6 passage refers to how you give, not whether you do or don't give.

The Pharisees were taking the tithes (meant to honor God) and using it as a means to honor themselves.

It absolutely should be personal and between only the giver and God - but it still should be done. See Matt 23:23 posted above.

[disneysteve]

This is an endless debate that can't ever be "won" by either side. Tithing is a religious belief. It is NOT a financial decision. Many people tithe who, from a strictly financial standpoint, probably shouldn't. But just try to tell them that. It is a conversation not even worth having.

I probably have a little different view on this since I'm Jewish, not Christian. From a practical viewpoint, I see many people who tithe and really can't afford to. I've had patients tell me that they are unable to afford their medication because after they pay their bills and their tithe, there is nothing left. I'm sorry, but I have a problem with that. In Judaism, health comes first, before any other obligations. If you must eat on Yom Kippur, a major fast day, in order to maintain health, then you eat. If you are starving and the only food around is pork (banned under Jewish dietary law) then you eat pork. I think monetary giving is no different. We are extremely active in our congregation and give generously, but we didn't always. When I was just out of school and buried in debt, not only didn't we give much of anything but we also received a reduced rate for our dues. Over time, as our personal financial situation improved, we gradually gave more. Today, not only do we pay full dues, we have become sustaining members meaning we make a substantial extra payment above our scheduled dues and make various other donations throughout the year. We're now making up for when we weren't able to give. I think that's what people ought to consider doing when they are going through rough times.