Parents cause this?

[lovcom]

This is funny to me. I was just reading in the 'paying myself first' thread that your 20 year old daughter just spent $300 on a Coach purse, which in turn made her pay her car payment 18 days past its due date. Now, am I to understand that, because you also proclaim that every (financial) decision that a 20 something person makes can be directly attributed to how the parents raised them, that you taught her to make decisions like this? Did you not raise your daughter to ignore the 'financial trappings of society' that can be embodied in say, I don't know, completely overpriced purses? Seems like you may have done a so-so job yourself.

My daughers have and will make mistakes, but if you look at the direction they're going, it is still the right way.

You point to one mistake and try to "call me on it", yet you forget even the most successful have made at least one mistake.

Despite my daughter's occassional picadilloes, she is doing enough right things to stay on the success track.

For example, I'm very successful, however if you look at my early 20's you will find a few picadilloes there, but having done mostly good choices, I have arrived at a very comfortable existence today at 49.

Even Einstein made mathematical mistakes before he made his many discoveries; he made enought correct calculations to be a successful physicist.

Raising a kid the right way will not insure he will never make mistakes....raising him the right way will insure he feels bad for those mistakes and will make changes to rectify them.

Like the bible says "Raise a child in the ways he should go, and when he is older he'll not depart from it.".

I accept the fact a long time ago, when both girls were little the they will make mistakes along the way, but the bottom line is that they're both in college and studying majors that will pay big bucks in their futures.

[lovcom]

It seems that I read of increases in college/university enrollment, not decreases.

"...we do see some increases in the percentage of students entering college after high school and earning a postsecondary credential, according to The Condition of Education 2009 report released today by the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)."

"The rate of college enrollment immediately after high school completion increased from 49 percent in 1972 to 67 percent by 1997, but has since fluctuated between 62 and 69 percent".

These quotes are from The Condition of Education

The increase is a comparison between before the great recession and during the great recession. If you correct for this anomoly, you will see that in the last 10-20 years young people that start and finish college has actually dropped and the data you linked to proves this.

These days, more then 45% of college students that start college don't complete college.

[disneysteve]

If a person is a bit slow in the brain, and the best they can be is a beautician or plumber

What an incredibly condescending comment.

Some people are really good with their hands. They will excel at careers that take advantage of those skills. Other people are more academically oriented and will do much better in jobs that capitalize on those abilities.

I'm talking about innate abilities, not learned behaviors. Yes, I suppose I could have been taught to be a construction worker but I'm quite sure I wouldn't have been a very good one. It isn't where my talents lie. And, as you suggest, many people could make it through medical school if they really tried, but that doesn't mean they'd all be good doctors. There is a lot more to being a doctor than passing tests in med school just as there is a lot more to being a plumber than knowing how to unclog a drain.

I don't think doctors and lawyers are smarter or better than plumbers and hair stylists. They are just different. I'm curious, do you think all people could be trained to be great artists or do you believe natural talent plays a part?

[disneysteve]

they're both in college and studying majors that will pay big bucks in their futures.

Will you measure their success in life, or your success as a parent, by how much money they earn? That's quite sad if you will.

[lovcom]

Will you measure their success in life, or your success as a parent, by how much money they earn? That's quite sad if you will.

I will measure their success in life by the following:

1. They are self sufficient, and don't need a man in their life. They will want a man of course, but not need him for financial reasons.
2. They will not become a burden to society through long or frequent utilizations of public assistence..
3. They will be their own persons, having all kinds of options that only money can provide.
4. They will be good citizens, vote, and volunteer their time to help less fortunate others.
5. They will raise their children in a similar way I raised them.
6. They will make their living without breaking laws, or cheating others.
7. They will not have any or very little consumer debt, no credit card debt.
8. They will not be driven by materialism, nor live beyond their means.
9. They will not care about peer pressure, so if their friend has a bigger house of nicer car, they will not care one way or the other.
10. They will have lots of joy, love, security and hope in their lives in ways that only fiscal responsability can bring to a family.
11. They will find mates just like them, raised like them, and they will work out their issues to avoid divorce.

These are few things that I will use to judge how successful they are.

If they become billionaires but have bad other area/s of their lives are messed up, then they are losers, plain in simple.

[disneysteve]

lovcom, that's a great list.

I would say, though, that I don't see where "big bucks" fits in. If I were single, I could live quite nicely on easily less than half of what I currently earn and probably even less than that. If your goal is for them to be able to support themselves without a man around, any decent job should do that as long as they also fulfill 7, 8 and 9 on your list.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Steve I gotta agree. Many an electrician, HVAC tech earns a great living wage. As long as they spend it and save it well no problemo.

And it was an extremely condescending comment Lovcom made. Glad his kids are normal, healthy, and perfect. Tell that to parents who don't have average kids and they'd likely tell you to walk in their shoes.

[disneysteve]

Steve I gotta agree. Many an electrician, HVAC tech earns a great living wage. As long as they spend it and save it well no problemo.

That's what I didn't get about lovcom's comments downing tradeworkers. Many of them make great incomes. Heck, some of them make more than I do as a physician and they didn't have to go to school for nearly as long and didn't have the 6-figure student loan debt that most doctors have. If I could have entered my career 8-10 years earlier with little to no educational debt, even earning 40% less than I make now, I'd be in better shape today.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Something people don't realize. Also realize sometimes it makes them happy. But it's not "prestigious."

Or the millionaire next door? Average joe who owned their own business and built it up. Without a college degree most.

I have a lot of immigrant friends whose parents came over and started restaurants, dry cleaning, parking lots, stores, etc and are millionaires many times over.

Educated? Probably where they are from. But they also don't mind if the kids take over the business.

[lovcom]

lovcom, that's a great list.

I would say, though, that I don't see where "big bucks" fits in. If I were single, I could live quite nicely on easily less than half of what I currently earn and probably even less than that. If your goal is for them to be able to support themselves without a man around, any decent job should do that as long as they also fulfill 7, 8 and 9 on your list.

...not if a single person has big dreams, loves to travel, experience the world, immerse themselves in other cultures....hates mediocrity...to really have a good run on this blue planet one must have options and as hard as it seems for others to admit, most options take money, and I don't mean money for luxuries or material wealth either.

For a "normal" person lacking imagination, easily impressed, and has mediocre dreams, for those not very well read or traveled, then you are right when you wrote "any decent job should do that as long as they also fulfill 7,8, 9 on your list".

We only live once....you best make the best of it because there are few 2nd chances.

For my life, and those of my children, we want options, security, and autonomy, and health because if you have all that then you have a heck of a lot of hope and if you have a lot of hope you prettey much have everything.

[lovcom]

lovcom, that's a great list.

I would say, though, that I don't see where "big bucks" fits in. If I were single, I could live quite nicely on easily less than half of what I currently earn and probably even less than that. If your goal is for them to be able to support themselves without a man around, any decent job should do that as long as they also fulfill 7, 8 and 9 on your list.

The "big bucks" comes automatically when they fulfill the entire list ;-)

It is self-evident....like what the book of Proverbs says.

[lovcom]

That's what I didn't get about lovcom's comments downing tradeworkers. Many of them make great incomes. Heck, some of them make more than I do as a physician and they didn't have to go to school for nearly as long and didn't have the 6-figure student loan debt that most doctors have. If I could have entered my career 8-10 years earlier with little to no educational debt, even earning 40% less than I make now, I'd be in better shape today.

Not accourding to the department of Labor statistics....sure I too know a plumber here and there that make big bucks, but they are the exception and not the rule and often they have to work weekends and a heck of a lot of overtime, during the time you are home with your family.

I never trashed the trades...rather I speak to those that underacheive, spend big bucks with big outstanding loans that prepare them to make peanuts after graduation and I mean years after graduation.

For me big bucks is not about presteges, or being pompous or having bragging rights...for me big bucks is about options that can be had by a person.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Actually one can say that what about doing peace corp sort of work? My roomie likes doing that and has done a few years here and there and it doesn't pay much, but he has a life he likes.

So technically since he lives very simply it means that he needs very little money to live on. He used to live ina lcola for I think something like $500/month.

[disneysteve]

If a person is a bit slow in the brain, and the best they can be is a beautician or plumber, God bless them and all the power to them and I don't consider these folks losers.

I never trashed the trades

Sorry, but you suggesting that only people who are "a bit slow in the brain" should become plumbers or beauticians certainly sounds like trashing the trades to me. You are saying that that no "abled bodied, average minded young people" should aspire to a career in these trades.

[Mjenn]

Have to say I agree with the don't need big bucks for your list.... I'm in my early 30's, starting a family, have lived in 4 different countries, taken vacations around the world, have my own business, and no debt.

What I don't have is my own house - I rent so we can be more mobile, a new car (bought ours used cash in hand) or a six figure salary. I also don't have a lot of stuff.

Part of what makes me sad about parents hovering forever over their kids in the US is because the main idea seems to be 'this way they can get more stuff' like be able to save for a mortgage, or drive a brand new car. I just think the experience of getting out and trying things on your own is worth much more than the stuff.

But it takes all kinds of folks, so if you want your first house by 25 more power to you, I just couldn't be tied down....