Parents cause this?

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

You want to blame socieity, but I, a neo-conservative blame the family of origin because the few families that do it right have 20 somethings that are very successful and by mid 20's many make 6 figures.

Are you intentionally exaggerating here, or do you really think that only those those families which have mid-20s who earn $100,000 or more are "doing it right?"

[lovcom]

The point I was making is that one should not blame society so much because there are parents of 20 somethings that are making a great living, which proves that the way parents raise their children can provide insulation from the evil banks, and the financial trappings one finds in our society.

If a 20 something is able to make enough money to (1) live independently, (2) never need to sponge off mommy and daddy, (3) are educated and have a career that can support all this, then that person is a success. For some this means making $40,000, for others $60,000 or $100,000.

Not only do most 20 somethings under achieve, their parents will be the first and loudest to provide excuses and "reasons"...this gets them off the hook for having done a so-so job.

[Like2Plan]

The things you listed do contribute to the high amount of losers in the 20 something age range, and on that note we agree.

You want to blame socieity, but I, a neo-conservative blame the family of origin because the few families that do it right have 20 somethings that are very successful and by mid 20's many make 6 figures.

lovcom,
I don't want to blame society. I don't agree with you that there are a high amount of losers in the 20something age range. As I have said in my previous post is that you have a wierd perception of 20somethings...

I think 20somethings do have an uphill battle because of some of the current economic conditions, but given enough time they will do just fine.

I think the current crop of 20somethings are a very patriotic generation.

[Like2Plan]

Wrong....it's the parent's fault initially, and entirely.

If a kid is raised properly, he's not going to fall for the bank's craap.

That is total nonsense. Ask an estate attorney at what age should your children get total unfettered access to their inheritance and I would be willing to bet most would not say 18--maybe not even 21.
This advice is not given out because the current crop of 20somethings are irresponsible, etc'. It is because 20somethings generally lack experience.

Getting back to the 18 year olds--some kids will listen to the advice their parents have given them. Others will have other ideas and will only catch on after a few hard lessons. And that is not the fault of the parents, it is something that goes with kids growing up and gaining experience. Sometimes folks just have to see for themselves...

[Like2Plan]

I'm honestly not sure. Pretty much all of my friends got their weddings paid for and house DP from their parents. We were the only ones who saved our DP ourselves. Everyone else had help. EVERYONE. Their parents could afford it.

LAL,
Look at the student loans kids get when they go to college and the amount of debt they carry on graduation. Wouldn't parents typically pick up that expense if they were paying for all these other things? That's what makes me think not everyone's parents are buying these kinds of gifts for their kids.

I think parents have always helped their children to the best of their ability. If it is an old couch or an old car or whatever. (It sounds like some kids get more help than others. )

[amarowsky]

LAL,
Look at the student loans kids get when they go to college and the amount of debt they carry on graduation. Wouldn't parents typically pick up that expense if they were paying for all these other things? That's what makes me think not everyone's parents are buying these kinds of gifts for their kids.

I think parents have always helped their children to the best of their ability. If it is an old couch or an old car or whatever. (It sounds like some kids get more help than others. )

Yea I agree, I never had that kind of help. I don't know though that I would like or dislike it. There are definite aspects to compare and contrast from either.

If I was given the money: I would not have had to work though my schooling, and I could have gone away to school. I would not even have to have a job probably. I could take school full time and get it done MUCH quicker. (im 22 now and finally only 1 class away from my associates, at my age fulltime I should be graduating w/ my bachelors next year not associates). Less stress, don't have to loan my mom money to make the mortgage, dont have to make all my purchases on my own at an early age.

I wasn't given the money: I work currently, I pay for my own school though the wise choices I have made. Choose a job that paid for school fully as long as part time, and since I have been laid Off I have been using grants and financial Aid. Also having to work for everything and pay everything on my own has given me a deep respect for finance and education.

I think there is a happy median somewhere. Where people work for thier school and have either have their parents help them or at least not need them to loan their parents money and help support their family. That probably would be best, because I could attack school and complete it faster. Currently I'm happy with my job (even though im laid off) and am completely content taking school at 1/2 to 3/4 time because it gives me time to mature and decide what I do want to do when I grow up.

[lovcom]

lovcom,
I don't want to blame society. I don't agree with you that there are a high amount of losers in the 20something age range. As I have said in my previous post is that you have a wierd perception of 20somethings...

I think 20somethings do have an uphill battle because of some of the current economic conditions, but given enough time they will do just fine.

I think the current crop of 20somethings are a very patriotic generation.

The 20 somethings going into the armed forces are not necessarily more patriotic then prior gens...they have less opportunities and out of desparation go to the armed forces.

There is rarely altruism in this world.

Check out the demographics and you will see that this current gen are more likely to either not start college, or if they do, to drop out.

Don't confuse my comments on being down on the 20 somethings....what I write is just an inconvenient truth, so don't kill the messenger ;-)

I actually like 20 something young people, and have two as my children and know scores more, and I see the trends....anyone that has eyes and ears will see them too....the defeatus morose is all over that gen, sadly.

I practice tough love with my girls, and for that reason they're in college learning skills that will pay very well.

I'm not one of those bleeding heart liberal parents that will support their children in anything the want to do. It is for this reason I'd never pay tuition if either girl wanted to study for example, cosmotology, or some other loser skill that will force them to either be dependent on a male, or force them to have a mediocre life absent of options for the low pay.

I teach my girls that money is options in life, and those that say money can't buy happiness are dead wrong. The happiest are those that have options.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

lovcom, some kids don't have the ability to have "high" wiage jobs. Perhaps going to college is not in their best interestr if they cannot hack it. Perhaps that is why people need to be plumber, cosmotologies, etc. BEcuase that is where their aptitude and skills lie.

If everyone were geniuses and able to have "white collar" jobs then what would happen to all the other jobs?

I think that you can be very successful without going ot college. And for some people that is a decision made because of their situation.

I don't have kids, but my sister has three. Two are very smart and can go to college. The middle has ADHD and problems with school. He is going to college, but even she isn't sure it's the right move. She is also the guardian for her SIL who is in her 40s with down's syndrome and BIL with depression/mental illness issues. So please tell me why should they have gone to college? And her BIL works a minimum wage job. By the way she's a MD married to another MD and these are his younger siblings. So it's not necessarily that they are all losers, they have professional careers.

I don't think you can automatically say I'm not paying for my kids to go to trade school or "loser" skill. But probably you have absolutely healthy, normal kids who don't need help.

[reallyprettyhappy]

The point I was making is that one should not blame society so much because there are parents of 20 somethings that are making a great living, which proves that the way parents raise their children can provide insulation from the evil banks, and the financial trappings one finds in our society.

If a 20 something is able to make enough money to (1) live independently, (2) never need to sponge off mommy and daddy, (3) are educated and have a career that can support all this, then that person is a success. For some this means making $40,000, for others $60,000 or $100,000.

Not only do most 20 somethings under achieve, their parents will be the first and loudest to provide excuses and "reasons"...this gets them off the hook for having done a so-so job.

This is funny to me. I was just reading in the 'paying myself first' thread that your 20 year old daughter just spent $300 on a Coach purse, which in turn made her pay her car payment 18 days past its due date. Now, am I to understand that, because you also proclaim that every (financial) decision that a 20 something person makes can be directly attributed to how the parents raised them, that you taught her to make decisions like this? Did you not raise your daughter to ignore the 'financial trappings of society' that can be embodied in say, I don't know, completely overpriced purses? Seems like you may have done a so-so job yourself.

[Like2Plan]

The 20 somethings going into the armed forces are not necessarily more patriotic then prior gens...they have less opportunities and out of desparation go to the armed forces.

There is rarely altruism in this world.

Just to be clear, I didn't say the current 20somethings are more patriotic than prior generations. However, since you brought it up--how about the late 60's/early 70's when it is would not be out of the ordinary to have someone spit on you if you wore a uniform? There were young folks who decided to drop out of society and float along. Some even used college as a way to avoid the draft ..... And whose dime do you think they were living off of back then?

Check out the demographics and you will see that this current gen are more likely to either not start college, or if they do, to drop out.

I would be interested in seeing your statistics. Where I live, kids are more likely to attend college.

...and know scores more, and I see the trends....anyone that has eyes and ears will see them too....the defeatus morose is all over that gen, sadly.

That is not what I see, sorry.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

It seems that I read of increases in college/university enrollment, not decreases.

"...we do see some increases in the percentage of students entering college after high school and earning a postsecondary credential, according to The Condition of Education 2009 report released today by the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)."

"The rate of college enrollment immediately after high school completion increased from 49 percent in 1972 to 67 percent by 1997, but has since fluctuated between 62 and 69 percent".

These quotes are from The Condition of Education

[PrincessPerky]

I tell mine that I am raising adults, not children. I don't want them to be children when they grow up. I want them to be adults.

Nice line.

I also hold to 'train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it'..doesn't say a thing about the 'middle years'. So good parenting doesn't mean a kid/young adult wont make mistakes, it just means in the end good habits will prevail, most of the time.

[Like2Plan]

Nice line.

I also hold to 'train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it'..doesn't say a thing about the 'middle years'. So good parenting doesn't mean a kid/young adult wont make mistakes, it just means in the end good habits will prevail, most of the time.

Well said. ITA

[zakity]

Well, 20somethings aren't exactly inclined to run to mommy and daddy and ask them stuff. I know I wasn't.

[lovcom]

lovcom, some kids don't have the ability to have "high" wiage jobs. Perhaps going to college is not in their best interestr if they cannot hack it. Perhaps that is why people need to be plumber, cosmotologies, etc. BEcuase that is where their aptitude and skills lie.

If everyone were geniuses and able to have "white collar" jobs then what would happen to all the other jobs?

I think that you can be very successful without going ot college. And for some people that is a decision made because of their situation.

I don't have kids, but my sister has three. Two are very smart and can go to college. The middle has ADHD and problems with school. He is going to college, but even she isn't sure it's the right move. She is also the guardian for her SIL who is in her 40s with down's syndrome and BIL with depression/mental illness issues. So please tell me why should they have gone to college? And her BIL works a minimum wage job. By the way she's a MD married to another MD and these are his younger siblings. So it's not necessarily that they are all losers, they have professional careers.

I don't think you can automatically say I'm not paying for my kids to go to trade school or "loser" skill. But probably you have absolutely healthy, normal kids who don't need help.

I'm talking about abled bodied, average minded young people here. You know it only takes an average intellect to become a doctor...what makes someone finish med school is more about striving, not giving up, having discipline, and less about having an exceptional brain.

If a person is a bit slow in the brain, and the best they can be is a beautician or plumber, God bless them and all the power to them and I don't consider these folks losers.

But too often we see young people that are in fact very smart that waste their potential on stupid directions.