Going Solar, Alternative Investment

[Singuy]

Just got off the phone with one company. Man panels are disgustingly cheap nowadays. $2.42/watt installed if I have shingle roof(I'll be paying more cause I have tiles).

So we are talking about spending 25k out of pocket after tax credit to save 3-3.5k/year. That's a 7.5 years payback, and then over 10% return after that!

[Drake3287]

Putting the saving the environment aside, I realize going solar is different for everyone depending on where you live including the availability of natural gas and running A/C, etc. But where I live in the Bay Area, most people don't need or have A/C and everyone has natural gas for heating and cooking.

But a large amount of these people have bought into this solar concept spending ten's of thousands of dollars that takes years and years to recoup the cost not to mention having ugly solar panel's on the roof with conduit running down the side of the house. (plus the risk of a leaky roof afterwards)

For me, I have a typical 2,100 sq. foot, two story house and my average electric bill from P.G.&E. is about $60. per month. Putting the natural gas portion of the bill aside, that's a great deal in my book. EVERYONE of my monthly bills is larger then that, everyone single one.

Just last week I had a solar salesman come by my house (again) trying to sell a system. I walked him outside and pointed to my neighbors ugly solar system on the roof and simply asked the guy how a $60. a month savings was worth it. All he could do was agree and walked away with his tail between his legs.

[Spiffster]

Putting the saving the environment aside, I realize going solar is different for everyone depending on where you live including the availability of natural gas and running A/C, etc. But where I live in the Bay Area, most people don't need or have A/C and everyone has natural gas for heating and cooking.

But a large amount of these people have bought into this solar concept spending ten's of thousands of dollars that takes years and years to recoup the cost not to mention having ugly solar panel's on the roof with conduit running down the side of the house. (plus the risk of a leaky roof afterwards)

For me, I have a typical 2,100 sq. foot, two story house and my average electric bill from P.G.&E. is about $60. per month. Putting the natural gas portion of the bill aside, that's a great deal in my book. EVERYONE of my monthly bills is larger then that, everyone single one.

Just last week I had a solar salesman come by my house (again) trying to sell a system. I walked him outside and pointed to my neighbors ugly solar system on the roof and simply asked the guy how a $60. a month savings was worth it. All he could do was agree and walked away with his tail between his legs.

Obviously solar panels are not for everyone but I think they look fine... We have all black panels with black mounting hardware as dictated by HOA. I quick side-note to that is these rules apparently don't apply to HOA board members' houses.

Anyway, I imagine a lot of people in the Bay Area drive EVs so perhaps that is why many there have PV panels, IDK. The two complement each other quite well.

[Nutria]

I have a 4.96kW system that was installed seven years ago.

What's the efficiency like now?

[Smallsteps]

I still think if they made advances and brought the price of turn around time of investment down it might be an option in some areas the cost vs savings Does not make sense if my bills are 60 to 70 a month it would take forever to break even.
I also find it odd that this industry is still being propped up by tax breaks and subsidies. If it was such a great option it should sell itself with out the lures of tax break etc

[Fishindude77]

I still think if they made advances and brought the price of turn around time of investment down it might be an option in some areas the cost vs savings Does not make sense if my bills are 60 to 70 a month it would take forever to break even.
I also find it odd that this industry is still being propped up by tax breaks and subsidies. If it was such a great option it should sell itself with out the lures of tax break etc

My feelings as well.
Like it or not, coal & nuke are still the best power options for most of us.

[Nutria]

My feelings as well.
Like it or not, coal & nuke are still the best power options for most of us.

Natural gas is where it's at, because of fracking.

As much as I love nuclear energy, and wish it were ubiquitous, the bottom line is that it's massively expensive. As for coal... pumping out heavy metals and the precursor to sulfuric acid just isn't an all-around good idea.

[disneysteve]

If it was such a great option it should sell itself with out the lures of tax break etc

Sometimes governments decide to sweeten the pot for something. Why do we get to deduct mortgage interest? Would any of us have not bought our homes if that deduction didn't exist? Look at how many businesses get huge tax breaks for building their new facility in a certain location. If the business is that good, why do they need the tax break? What about charitable donations? If you want to support a good cause, you should do it because it's the right thing to do and you feel good about it. You shouldn't need a tax break.

[LaurenAlderson]

Every system and brand is slightly different in terms of efficiency and return on investment. Try not to generalise one opinion that it will cost more to run. Could ask companies for data sheets. Some information is downloadable too.

[amarowsky]

Due to the yearly drop in solar installation cost, I am thinking that going solar maybe a good alternative investment that can yield me a 5% return.


Currently, a 45k system can offset about 250 dollars/month in electricity (3k/year).

$250/month for electricity seems pretty high. I would assume your need is higher in flordia, partly due to more consistent need for A/C run time. In Michigan avg KWH = $0.1076 and Flordia is $0.1049 (according to https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ ) so price is very comparable.

I think it would be a better investment to access your electricity usage, and move towards reducing any potential waste electricity.

During the winter my elec bill in MI is roughly $45, during summer months, when temp is ~85-95, my bill will maybe reach $125 for 3 peak months. There may be some divergence, because my stove/water/furnace are gas powered. But that still seems insanely high.

If you haven't taken advantage of LED's bulbs, high efficient appliances, or better insulation, then I think those would be a much more rewarding investment.

Unless you are supporting some very important electrical needs (medical machines, multiple refrigerators, many roomates (even when i had 3 room mates, the bill was rarely over $90 non-A/C months), growing plants indoors, etc....

Just my opinon, that utility price jumped out at me when I saw it. And me and a few of my friends, kind of have a competition going on, to who can reduce utility (gas/water/electric) waste as much as possible.

Food for thought!

[Singuy]

I have taken a lot of measures to save electricity. 95% of my bulbs are LED, and I have a pretty strict scheduling parameter for a/c usage during the summer(complete shut off when no one is home).

I just have some problems that can't be avoided.

1. Volume: My ceilings height throughout is 10.5ft-11.5ft, covering over 4400 squareft.

2. We don't have other methods to warm the house beside using electric heat pumps, which turns on AUX heat all the freaken time when the temperature outside drops. I have a work around by using a propane heater but it's a lot of work (constantly having to refill the 1lb propane tanks).

3. My wife's brother who is a new member of the house is pretty wasteful. He doesn't believe in putting on a jacket when it's slightly cold or turning on the ceiling fan when it's slightly warm. My wife is the same way. Their temperature tolerance is absolutely terrible. I am cool with a temp of 65-79. My wife is 72-78, same with her brother. Brother pays rent(which includes utility bill) so I can't say much...but to cool his small bed room require the main A/C to be on...which cools the entire first floor minus the master bedroom area which has its own A/C.

4. Got a brand new pool, drains about 250w/hr x 8hours a day..not a huge deal.

So my electric bill was 100 dollars cheaper prior to the brother moving in. Oh well..once I get a Tesla car, the panels will pay for itself much faster.

[Gailete]

As much as possible we try to take advantage of passive solar hear. We have 5 x 5' windows throughout the house that my hubby found a deal on when he was building. When the sun is out it can really warm up our upstairs living room. When we were out of propane this past week, he hung piano packing pads over the windows wand the insulated curtains I had made. I helped to keep what warmth we managed to get inside the room and we have left them up since then as it is around zero or close too this days, and even with the sun out, it isn't out long enough to add much to the passive heat.

We have been switching over to those lightbulbs, but for bulbs that are supposed to last for years, ours burn out with amazing frequency. One night I was minding my own business reading and one of the overhead light bulbs blew and I had fine shards of glass falling all over me! We did write to complain to the company and they sent us a $10 coupon - big whoop. That is dangerous! We got better mileage cost wise with the old fashioned bulb.

We do what we can, but very interesting reading this thread. I didn't realize all the factors that came into place with the solar panels.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I believe it really is where you live. In hawaii lots of people are doing it. But sun all year pays for itself. Not so much in other locales.

[Gailete]

I believe it really is where you live. In hawaii lots of people are doing it. But sun all year pays for itself. Not so much in other locales.

When you mentioned Hawaii, I suddenly realized why NO one around here has collectors on their roofs or anywhere although a few have windmills. I suspect in my area everyone currently has 1-2 feet of snow on their roofs so unless they also come with a snow melting device, they wouldn't be of much good here.

The one thing I thought was really great was seeing a PBS special on putting one collector on the roof of the schoolhouses in little villages in Africa that have no electric at all. It meant that students could come to school in the evening after the daily farm work was done. The thrill of those folks having just one or two glowing light bulbs in their entire town was wonderful to see.

[tripods68]

I
So my electric bill was 100 dollars cheaper prior to the brother moving in. Oh well..once I get a Tesla car, the panels will pay for itself much faster.

What is the math in the savings buying a Tesla?