the problem with education in this country

[QuarterMillionMan]

I’m actually debating taking a $10,000 loan now and take online classes since it might get forgiven.

[ua_guy]

I’m actually debating taking a $10,000 loan now and take online classes since it might get forgiven.

You would have done better to sign up for a PPP loan a few years ago. Totally forgiven. It was a money grab for anyone who wanted it, deserving or not. But nobody started a thread about forgiveness for those loans, people like Kanye West took money from them and never paid them back because it was totally forgiven. Now go aim your angst where it matters.

[Fishindude77]

You would have done better to sign up for a PPP loan a few years ago. Totally forgiven. It was a money grab for anyone who wanted it, deserving or not. But nobody started a thread about forgiveness for those loans, people like Kanye West took money from them and never paid them back because it was totally forgiven.

You are correct about this. Some folks I know that run a company got over $1.5 mil on PPE loans and paid back nothing.
Gee, I wonder why inflation is going thru the roof?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

OMG everything 100% agree about the non BK of student loans. Make it BK and see how fast private lenders start reforming borrowing amounts? and what happens when people can't pay? Then crazy things start to happen.

How much did the $300k in debt Teacher borrow? I agree she should just pay back what she borrowed. As a teacher I'd be open to her not paying any interest and just the loans. Was it $50k? $100k? What amount did she actually borrow to compound to $300k?

[QuarterMillionMan]

Thoughts on CRT? I think it creates division on who is privileged and who is not. Improvements should be on reading, writing, math, sciences, personal finances, etc.

[ua_guy]

Thoughts on CRT? I think it creates division on who is privileged and who is not. Improvements should be on reading, writing, math, sciences, personal finances, etc.

The division of privileged and non-privileged is already evident and it's more of a gradient than binary. CRT doesn't create that division, it analyzes and helps explain why that division exists beyond individual racial bias.

CRT has been around for 40-ish years but only recently has it flashed onto the forefront of identity politics. To "ban" any subject or book in school is so against the reason for education and learning in the first place, banning anything is literally brainwashing students. Education opens minds, it doesn't form them. It's possible to learn something in school and simply disagree with it.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

The division of privileged and non-privileged is already evident and it's more of a gradient than binary. CRT doesn't create that division, it analyzes and helps explain why that division exists beyond individual racial bias.

CRT has been around for 40-ish years but only recently has it flashed onto the forefront of identity politics. To "ban" any subject or book in school is so against the reason for education and learning in the first place, banning anything is literally brainwashing students. Education opens minds, it doesn't form them. It's possible to learn something in school and simply disagree with it.

CRT is a starting point but we are learning more about what zip code you were born and where you live basically determining your "class" in the us.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Ua_guy you won $10,000 of student loan forgiveness for under $125,000 income. Shaking my head.

[QuarterMillionMan]

BTW, what inflation?

[ua_guy]

Ua_guy you won $10,000 of student loan forgiveness for under $125,000 income. Shaking my head.

I didn't win anything except for the bill. I don't have student loan debt and never have. Wouldn't qualify on income even if I did have student debt.

I stand by my earlier statement - this creates more economic value than the money required to forgive the debt.

The one criticism of the program that has flavor of merit is that it has the potential to have a stimulus effect by injecting consumer cash into an inflationary economy, which is something the economy doesn't necessarily need right now. A broken clock is right twice a day and I think this criticism is equally correct.

[bjl584]

I didn't win anything except for the bill. I don't have student loan debt and never have. Wouldn't qualify on income even if I did have student debt.

I stand by my earlier statement - this creates more economic value than the money required to forgive the debt.

The one criticism of the program that has flavor of merit is that it has the potential to have a stimulus effect by injecting consumer cash into an inflationary economy, which is something the economy doesn't necessarily need right now. A broken clock is right twice a day and I think this criticism is equally correct.

Student loan debt is crippling for sure. The $10,000 is nice, but for a lot of recent graduates it is a drop in the bucket. I know some young adults with student loan debt approaching six figures.

My main issue is that this is sort of a symptom fix. As long as universities are charging insane rates for non marketable degrees, and as long as the government keeps backing loans for them, then this issue will never go away.
There is a new group of graduates every year. Is the expectation that we forgive their loans too, and every year thereafter?
When does it end?
What is the long term goal here?

I'm glad I don't have ay student loan debt, and I'm more thankful that I'm not about to head off to college.

[ua_guy]

Student loan debt is crippling for sure. The $10,000 is nice, but for a lot of recent graduates it is a drop in the bucket. I know some young adults with student loan debt approaching six figures.

My main issue is that this is sort of a symptom fix. As long as universities are charging insane rates for non marketable degrees, and as long as the government keeps backing loans for them, then this issue will never go away.
There is a new group of graduates every year. Is the expectation that we forgive their loans too, and every year thereafter?
When does it end?
What is the long term goal here?

I'm glad I don't have ay student loan debt, and I'm more thankful that I'm not about to head off to college.

It's not my program. But I'd question how many people have actually looked into the specifics which were proposed, and why. As part of the announcement, the white house compiled a summary and some facts about the program to help people out.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/

[kork13]

I disagree with willy-nilly debt disappear-o magic on the grounds of a few different principles... But it's decided & happening regardless of what any of us say or believe, so I'm not going to argue it.

Another note -- It's actually a $20k SL debt cancellation for students receiving the Pell grant.

]The one criticism of the program that has flavor of merit is that it has the potential to have a stimulus effect by injecting consumer cash into an inflationary economy, which is something the economy doesn't necessarily need right now.

But I did want to comment on this -- thinking about it, I'm actually not sure that this stimulus effect will be a significant factor in the economy, at least right now. Student loan repayments have been deferred for ... what, 2 years now? And they will continue to be deferred for another 4 months. So because nobody has been nor will be making SL payments, most of that stimulus effect will have taken place at the beginning of the SL deferment... And then when SL payments finally do start becoming due again, the sudden hit of SL payments being due again may very well negate much of the stimulus effect of having reduced everyone's SL debts, instead drawing out that inflationary impact over time in a less dramatic fashion because a $10k reduction would probably reduce SL payments by ~$100/mo, which stays in everyone's pocket over time (as compared to a big, one-time check of $X,000).... And it can't start having any impact until any earlier than Jan'23.

So although I disagree with the policy... given the circumstances, the way that they're implementing it may actually be the smartest way to get done what they were after.

[ua_guy]

But I did want to comment on this -- thinking about it, I'm actually not sure that this stimulus effect will be a significant factor in the economy, at least right now.

I tend to agree that it won't be significant. But it puts some potential homebuyers in a better place, and the reduction in debt and monthly expense will undoubtedly push some people over the line into "approval" for a home loan. This is a good thing - home ownership is how most Americans hold any semblance of wealth and security.

The other effect it could have is an increase in consumer debt at a bad time - when goods like cars and such are inflated. This is not so good, as these assets tend to depreciate versus maintain or gain value.

[Like2Plan]

I am a little confused about this. Is it a done deal or does there have to be legislation done? I looked up executive orders and I don't see anything there, yet.

The only thing I did see was a briefing sheet from the White House: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...-need-it-most/

Besides delaying the loan payback until the end of the year, this is the only other definite thing (on PSLF) I could find:

"If you have worked in public service (federal, state, local, tribal government or a non-profit organization) for 10 years or more (even if not consecutively), you may be eligible to have all your student debt canceled. Now, for a limited time, it is easier than ever to receive that forgiveness, or get credit toward forgiveness, if you have not yet served 10 years.
But you must apply before October 31, 2022."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/publicser...anforgiveness/