the problem with education in this country

[james.hendrickson]

QMM - I did a bit of research.

According to this analysis by the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, the bill will cost between 311 and 820 billion.

The forgiveness bill would only be inflationary if the Federal reserve increased the money supply to fund the forgiveness. Its not clear to me if the Federal budget can absorb the added expenses or not.

Also, the article noted that the benefits mostly accrue to the top 60 percent of the income distribution.

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/8/23/forgiving-student-loans

The Wharton School seems like a credible institution to me, so the numbers may be a bit more reliable than what's floating around on the web.

[ua_guy]

Anyone with a lick of sense understands that with few exceptions, things that are given are typically not appreciated and cared for, while things that are worked for and earned are cared for and taken care of.
The majority of these recipients won't be any better off six months from now than they are now. They'll still be carrying student loans and will be looking for the next handout.

That's an extremely negative viewpoint! How did you arrive at that?

[QuarterMillionMan]

I'll play for Fishing, could be anything such as inheritance, finding a $100 bill on the ground vs working hard at Starbucks and earning that $100 in a day, welfare, etc. But let's stick to a college degree to stay on topic. When mommy & daddy pays, most kids are lazy, only the smart will go for STEM. The lazy one will take Art, drama, ethnic studies, gender studies, etc. If mommy & daddy was smart they'd make the kid repay the tuition with interest. Makes me wonder why all these kids graduate with all these worthless degree. And now with Biden's forgiveness I'm having to contribute $2100 of my hard earned money to help them, good grief (lol).

[disneysteve]

A reminder to all:

It is perfectly fine to discuss public policy on the forum.

It is NOT fine to make political comments. That means no pointing fingers at the current or past Presidents, members of Congress, Republicans or Democrats, other posters for their political views, or anything of the sort.

Any comments felt to be political will be removed.

Certainly, political workings have a lot to do with financial issues so it's impossible to avoid the topic completely in a financial forum, but stick to the issues, not the people or parties behind the decisions.

[james.hendrickson]

A reminder to all:

It is perfectly fine to discuss public policy on the forum.

It is NOT fine to make political comments. That means no pointing fingers at the current or past Presidents, members of Congress, Republicans or Democrats, other posters for their political views, or anything of the sort.

Any comments felt to be political will be removed.

Certainly, political workings have a lot to do with financial issues so it's impossible to avoid the topic completely in a financial forum, but stick to the issues, not the people or parties behind the decisions.

correct.

[Fishindude77]

18 & 20 Year olds certainly have a lot to learn, but the wool was never pulled over their eyes when signing up for student loans. They are plenty old enough to understand borrowing money and signing a contract requires that you repay the loan. heck, I was borrowing money at that age to buy a new car (didn't claim it was smart ) and I darned well understood that money would have to be repaid, so I did so. Striking clean their debt does more harm than good. They need to understand the consequences of borrowing and need to feel the pain and effort required to pay it back. Those sacrifices and that effort make people smarter and stronger, more responsible and better citizens. This bail out program just promotes irresponsibility and delays maturity.

Same could be said for a lot of the handouts we've seen recently. Those PPE loans to business might have been the worst. Almost none of them were repaid and the recipients got that money tax free. One small business I'm familiar with got close to $2mil they didn't need and could have gotten by without just fine. In all likelihood the owners just split up the cash and took it home.

I don't ever support handouts, but if they're going to do it, handouts like these need to have the full support of the majority of society and should be shared equally, not just handed out to a select few. The money to fund these things should also be taken out of the existing federal budget, and something else eliminated rather than printing more money from thin air.

Our state has a budget surplus and just sent us all checks, we got $650. I'd have much rather seen them reduce our taxes for some long term savings rather than a one time check, most will have blown within a week. Would much rather see the free money stopped, taxes reduced and have governments work on creating a better business environment. Putting people to work is what's needed, not handouts.

[ua_guy]

18 & 20 year olds do understand what they signed up for. It's the rest of America that seems to struggle with the concept of forgiveness and acts of grace.

Quite honestly, this is way more exciting and impactful than giving a bunch of tax breaks to rich people.

[crazyliblady]

Nice to see people already complaining that $10k forgiveness isn't enough. Writing was on the wall.

That's what I have been saying for a long time now. I have never expected the government to take care of me. Even at times in my life when I could have qualified for welfare, it never occurred to me to even apply.

Speaking of the loan forgiveness issue, I read last night that some members of the senate are challenging the constitutionality of Biden's action. So, I guess the drama is not over. LOL

[ua_guy]

The tears are just so delicious!!

[rennigade]

That's what I have been saying for a long time now. I have never expected the government to take care of me. Even at times in my life when I could have qualified for welfare, it never occurred to me to even apply.

I dont think there is anything wrong with welfare. I know some people who did have to use it when they were in a tough spot...but those few people clawed their way out of welfare and are now doing really well with good jobs. The welfare they were on was affordable housing and food stamps. Unfortunately, this is not the journey that people want to take anymore. They do not want to work hard for things. They want everything for free. And why not, the government wants people to rely on them. This is the nanny state we have heard about. Its fascinating how easy it is to manipulate people with free stuff.

[crazyliblady]

I dont think there is anything wrong with welfare. I know some people who did have to use it when they were in a tough spot...but those few people clawed their way out of welfare and are now doing really well with good jobs. The welfare they were on was affordable housing and food stamps. Unfortunately, this is not the journey that people want to take anymore. They do not want to work hard for things. They want everything for free. And why not, the government wants people to rely on them. This is the nanny state we have heard about. Its fascinating how easy it is to manipulate people with free stuff.

Please don't misunderstand. I don't think there is anything wrong with welfare, either. It has its place and I am happy that it is available for those who need it. I do think it gets abused by some people, though.

[ua_guy]

I dont think there is anything wrong with welfare. I know some people who did have to use it when they were in a tough spot...but those few people clawed their way out of welfare and are now doing really well with good jobs. The welfare they were on was affordable housing and food stamps. Unfortunately, this is not the journey that people want to take anymore. They do not want to work hard for things. They want everything for free. And why not, the government wants people to rely on them. This is the nanny state we have heard about. Its fascinating how easy it is to manipulate people with free stuff.

Employment and wage data say you're wrong. Like, smoking meth, wrong.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I'm with james, prior post about i'd rather do student loan forgiveness than more tax breaks and wealth to the rich. I do see the USA devolving into a society of very wealthy and everyone else. While we all try and claw up to the upper class so we aren't falling further and further behind.

$10k is not a ton of money but i'd rather have it for the students who took out loans than those uber rich people who got a free money grab. I mean I'm still pissed about who the hell can hand down an estate of $22M tax free? Who has that much to give to their kids unless you are very, very wealthy? Don't get me wrong if I ever become that rich i'll take advantage of the legal loophole, but I'm pretty the taxes from $11M to $22M in estate taxes would more than PAY for the $10k student loans.

But heck what do I know? I'm not rich enough to have inherited that much or even get close. And why do people inheriting that much even need a tax break?

[ua_guy]

Not to do whataboutism, but back to PPP for a minute... The average debt discharged per borrower of a PPP loan exceeds $75,000 while the debt discharged for a student loan borrower is *up to* 20,000. The selective outrage is...selective, I'll put it that way. Unlike PPP, SL forgiveness is actually going to people who have to qualify based on their need.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Not to do whataboutism, but back to PPP for a minute... The average debt discharged per borrower of a PPP loan exceeds $75,000 while the debt discharged for a student loan borrower is *up to* 20,000. The selective outrage is...selective, I'll put it that way. Unlike PPP, SL forgiveness is actually going to people who have to qualify based on their need.

Oh I fully agree about the PPP loans that were forgiven. Did it actually go to the workers? Or did the workers go on unemployment again out of everyone's pockets while owners got the PPP loans?