the problem with education in this country

[LivingAlmostLarge]

So my cousin's wife is 45 year old. She is going back to school for a doctor of education in organizational and leadership management at USC. My mom is super thrilled and told me I should go back and get another degree (like I need one like a hole in my head NO!). I don't use the one I have and I don't need another degree. That being we got into a heated argument where I said it was pointless for my cousin's wife to get a degree for what? I mean that is another $60k in student loans or more and she went to school late and good for her that she did a bachelors and masters in her 30s and 40s. And all online and took out loans. She has over $100k in loans. And is adding more. They have two kids 16 and 13.

I said it was ridiculous to keep going to school for what? My mom said she's now on the "management" track and going to make more money. Okay fine a bachelor's maybe set her on the management track. Great. But why? So in 3 years she'll have another degree to work at a utilities company in a small town and try to move up? To make $10k more a year? How many more years is she planning on working? And then taking out loans for her 2 kids? Money better spent helping them walk out without loans.

This right here is why people over 50 have student loans. To go get degrees that produce what? Have what earning potential? That have what return? I'm not saying they needed to fire, but based on where they live and what they earn, they easily could have fired by 45 if they had bothered at all to try. Super cheap house, great salaries for the area. So why bother?

My mom again said I need to "work" and use my degrees. I'm the most lazy and worthless higher education person she knows. Trust me most of her friends for "bragging" rights are appalled I went to school and have a degree from a good school and don't use it. Sigh. My DH is the same. And yes he did change careers but it was $16k and we cash flowed it in 2015/2016. We did not accrue a lot of student loan debt. We happened to be super prudent.

But like I've said my mom is really bad with money. Terrible and outearned stupid. But this right here is why people are in so much student loan debt and keep on digging the holes deeper and deeper.

I don't think college is for everyone. I don't believe that you have to go to a 4 year program at 18 if you aren't ready. I also don't think that you need to choose a major for money because doing what you love will let you excel. but if you pick something not lucrative maybe try to go about it on the cheap.

[Fishindude77]

Another big factor is finally getting their act together and getting on a career path so late in life. Sounds like she pizzed away a great deal of her productive earning years.
18 Is "adult" and people need to get their butts to work and their lives and families on track a bit earlier if you don't want to work till your death bed.

[bjl584]

A big problem is that young minds and ignorant parents are sold on the idea of college. These colleges are raking in huge amounts of cash from all sides and are producing young adults qualified to work in fast food.

You are right that college isn't for everyone. If you go for something super specialized like a doctor or a lawyer, then college will pay off.
But if you go for Native American History and Culture, then be prepared to ask "do you want fries with that?"

My GF's niece is going to be one of those people.
She is socially awkward and not very motivated. She is currently going to a state college out of state and is majoring in the History of Film and Theater.
She is going to graduate with 100K in loans and have 0 job prospects.
I told my GF to tell her sister to pull that poor girl out of school before she completely destroys her life.
But her sister says that she wants to give her daughter the "college experience"
Okay......

[myrdale]

There are several parts to this.

College is not for everyone. A high school education / GED is! If you're 40 and never finished high school, it is more than worth it to obtain a GED.

In the absences of college, there are trade schools. In just a couple of years, you could have a certification as a welder, plumber, or electrician and make far more than those with a college degree.

There has to be some thought put into return on investment. Personally my degree is in Chemical Engineering. That does not make me "better" than someone with a degree in History, English, or Women's Literature, but it does demand a higher salary.

Also you have to consider what school you're attending. In-State, Out-of-State, Public, Private. Spending an extra $50,000 to attend an out of state school may not have any advantages over an in state school. And don't forget about local community colleges to get some of the core classes out of the way.

And there is nothing wrong with getting a degree in a field you want with zero return IF you can afford it. If it's your dream to have a degree in West African Studies, go for it, but don't go $100,000 in debt to obtain it.

There are co-op and work programs. Companies will pay to put you through school with the condition you work with them for x number of years.

Lastly, never spend money to appease someone else.

[james.hendrickson]

Lastly, never spend money to appease someone else.

I saw this...and nodded my head in agreement. Great point myrdale.

[ua_guy]

I think people find a sense of purpose and meaning in a variety of things. If this is empowerment, or a personal goal, or something of interest, then it probably warrants looking at the situation as more than purely economical and keeping judgements to oneself. One of the real problems with education in this country is that so many people will only educate themselves up to the point where it might make them money. And it really shows.

Even the most esoteric degrees qualify students to work in more than fast food when they graduate. This is a common misconception spread by those who dislike college for whatever reasons. No, someone who completed a degree in African Studies may not immediately find a job in their chosen area of expertise. Maybe not for a long time. But the fact is, you've got a student who pushed through 4 years of committing to learning something, who became financially invested in what they were doing, and now they are available for work. The fact that they can articulate, write well, and probably be able to speak publicly is pretty huge. They will be good at a variety of things and have the ability to be extremely versatile in their careers, never being stopped at the door for not having a college degree. There are plenty of those jobs and employers out there who insist on it. The data over time shows that the college-educated workforce simply makes more over a lifetime of work, even if it means starting humbly after graduation.

My niece just graduated high school. She's smart, but doesn't enjoy academics. She's headed to art school this fall. There has been some epic eye-rolling from the family. But, as I've said, nobody in her family should stand in her way. She's investing in a gift she has. No, art school doesn't make a famous artist. Work after graduation will be tough. But she will find it. There are all kinds of jobs where she can use her skill. She will have a degree. She's taking 4 years to better herself in a way which makes sense to her, and, honestly? I find that a lot more admirable than doing what a lot of people do, which is accidentally having families or falling into a job because it was the closest thing available. She could be a doctor or a lawyer or a neuroscientist, but those aren't things she is interested in doing. I really think the world needs more people like her. She's doing what she's doing because she wants to, for herself, and I'm not in the least concerned about money because that will follow in some form, she will figure it out. The world needs smart people, not dumb people who convert themselves into a paycheck based on someone else's use for them.

[rennigade]

Maybe it was your cousins wife goal to someday earn a doctorate degree. Nothing wrong with that. No reason to put her down. I know several people who earned a bachelors when they were in their late 40's and are now teachers. Not everything equates to dollars and cents.

[kork13]

College is not for everyone. A high school education / GED is! If you're 40 and never finished high school, it is more than worth it to obtain a GED.

In the absences of college, there are trade schools. In just a couple of years, you could have a certification as a welder, plumber, or electrician and make far more than those with a college degree.

As with many topics, there is an idealist argument and a practical/realist argument. The idealist says "live your dream!" while the realist says "get the education you need...actually need." Alot of factors go into what's feasible for any given individual. But as stated, there are alot of ways to "live your dream" while still being practical about it. In addition to high school/GED, trade school, college, there's also community colleges. Those are probably the best of all worlds, because they're typically very low cost, easy entry, broadly applicable, and still offer a variety of specializations. Whether it's a few random classes to scratch an itch that's always been of interest, earning an associate's degree, or leading (at low cost) into a future bachelor's degree... I think the country really needs to emphasize community colleges more. It would reduce the cost of higher ed, provide a broad base from which people can expand, and give students time to feel out college academics & fields of study without getting saddled with massive debt.

[Mjenn]

I think there are 2 very different points being made here — and I agree with questioning earning factors for a large investment in study later in life, but I don’t think a degree in humanities is useless.

I have a degree in humanities and I am the head of a department and in charge of a team of engineers. I have what on paper would be termed a useless degree here - but I make more thank the engineers 30-55 years old in my team.

I will add that I didn’t get a second degree, but when my kids were young I took some online computer science classes that were free because where I live higher education is free.

I use those courses probably less than I use my college degree. Leading a team is much more about understanding how to help people work better and deliver than it is about creating a web application. My humanities degree helped me prep for that. But I think the combination has been an asset for me.

if you are doing something because you are passionate about it I don’t think you can go wrong. If you are just ticking off college as a box on a to do list maybe trade school is better. I couldn’t imagine not doing my degree. I loved college and my flaky major subject.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No i don't think it's the humanities the organization management can be useful. But starting at 45? Ending at close to 50? What job will you end up with? The question is it worth it?

[jenn_jenn]

Maybe it was your cousins wife goal to someday earn a doctorate degree. Nothing wrong with that. No reason to put her down. I know several people who earned a bachelors when they were in their late 40's and are now teachers. Not everything equates to dollars and cents.

Yes, this.

When I was doing my MBA, we had a couple of older students in their 50s-60s. They were doing the program because they’d always wanted to and finally had the time. One of them was actually retired and he just had a pure love for learning. There are cheaper ways to continue learning but sometimes people have goals that make no sense to anyone else and that is totally okay.

I think part of LAL point though is that many people think more degrees = more money and that’s not always the case, especially when it comes to PhD’s.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Yes, this.

When I was doing my MBA, we had a couple of older students in their 50s-60s. They were doing the program because they’d always wanted to and finally had the time. One of them was actually retired and he just had a pure love for learning. There are cheaper ways to continue learning but sometimes people have goals that make no sense to anyone else and that is totally okay.

I think part of LAL point though is that many people think more degrees = more money and that’s not always the case, especially when it comes to PhD’s.

This. Ask yourself before paying what are you doing with it? Is it worth it? As you get older time is shorter for Return on Investment. And I see so many people with student loans in their 50s. So they work to pay student loans? Instead of figuring out how to work with what they have and perhaps how to make more money without paying for another degree.

[GoodLiving]

My mom again said I need to "work" and use my degrees. I'm the most lazy and worthless higher education person she knows. Trust me most of her friends for "bragging" rights are appalled I went to school and have a degree from a good school and don't use it. Sigh. My DH is the same. And yes he did change careers but it was $16k and we cash flowed it in 2015/2016. We did not accrue a lot of student loan debt. We happened to be super prudent.
.

Ugh, thanks for your comments Mom, if you want to go back to school go for it! I might venture to guess I'm a long your same lines. I've got two MS and no debt. I got the second one because I did go higher on the salary scale and it only cost me fees and books. At this point in my life, I'm working at going towards retirement not more education even if all I have to pay for is fees & books. I'm also not impressed with more education. Enjoy your life!

[QuarterMillionMan]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/meet-34-old-250-000-114500769.html

[QuarterMillionMan]

I don’t think it said which degrees she got but probably one of the worthless degrees (you know which ones I’m talking about).