Private and Public School

[Singuy]

I wonder about this stat. Maybe a job doesn't "require" a degree but how many of those people wouldn't actually have gotten the job without it? Does that make sense?

I believe jobs that doesn't require a degree actually means just that. There are people who are employed in that job that doesn't have a degree.

If the person couldn't get the job if person didn't have a degree..then the job actually will require a degree therefore doesn't satisfy the description of no degrees required.

Maybe you can make a case that even though the job doesn't require a degree, they prefer people with degrees. But on the flip side, many jobs that doesn't require degrees find degree recipients to be over qualified.

[disneysteve]

Maybe you can make a case that even though the job doesn't require a degree, they prefer people with degrees.

That's what I was getting at. If the person doing the hiring has multiple candidates, will preference be given to the ones with the better education even if the official job listing said a degree wasn't required? I don't know the answer to that and I'm sure it varies case to case.

I find it really hard to believe that 62% of college grads are working in jobs for which no degree is needed.

[disneysteve]

30 years ago that worked, but now idiot HR drones just compare your CV to the list of requirements that the hiring manager needs, and if they don't match then in the bin goes the resume.

This is an interesting point and something I really don't think about since I'm "older" and not in the job market today. I imagine it's a lot harder to prove yourself and sell yourself when you aren't actually dealing with a human being in the hiring process. When some computer program is screening the applicants rather than an actual person doing it, a lot of great candidates probably get bounced before they even have a chance.

[Singuy]

That's what I was getting at. If the person doing the hiring has multiple candidates, will preference be given to the ones with the better education even if the official job listing said a degree wasn't required? I don't know the answer to that and I'm sure it varies case to case.

I find it really hard to believe that 62% of college grads are working in jobs for which no degree is needed.

You should check out my pharmacy techs. 50% of them have a degree in a social science..the other 50% were either high school students who worked at CVS or went to tech school for 6 months.

Believe it Steve. Go and ask around at the bank or your nearest super market. You'll be surprised how many people are college graduates.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No there are many jobs that lead into other fields. And there are many fields that don't pay great. I know many science people who took their bachelor's and went into public health, air quality control, etc. Working for cities or towns doing health/environmental surveying. They make a very decent living. Are they making 6 figures? Most no. But they have a good job with benefits (mostly pensions). Lots of those city kind of public health jobs need college "biology" degrees. air quality, water quality, etc.

I also know a bunch of teachers. Unfortunately teachers well they tend to have lots of debt and little pay. Thankfully they all seem to enjoy teaching. Same like the social workers I meet.

I also have meet a lot of speech therapist/occupational therapist/physical therapist. Are they rolling in the dough? better than most but not a ton and they like what they do.

I think you can't quatify someone's degree as worthless. I have a cousin who chose communications. She became a newscaster (dream job) and works in television. I think she makes $50k now after 10 years, but I'd have to say she's working, bought a condo and is a contributing member of society. Big money? NO. Happy? Yes. Lucky her parents paid 100% of college, but would it have been wrong to go to college to get a communications degree? Maybe at the expensive private school she went to yes. But a cheaper route? No why not? She got to accomplish her dream (i mean really how many people want to report the news?)

So I think it's not a black or white you must make a "return" on your education. The return on education should be are you working or a productive member of society by contributing either paid or unpaid (stay at home parents or caregivers?) Then yes you are making a return on your investment.

It's just some people are better at generating a "bigger" return on their investment.

[disneysteve]

Believe it Steve. Go and ask around at the bank or your nearest super market. You'll be surprised how many people are college graduates.

How many of those entry level jobs that don't require a degree will still allow someone to rise through the ranks without that degree? You mentioned bank tellers. My cousin started as a bank teller years ago. He ended up as a vice-president of the bank and is now very comfortably retired at age 55. Maybe he could have gotten the teller job without his degree but would he have been stuck working as a teller his whole career? What about the supermarket? Maybe the cashier doesn't need a degree but what about the managers? What about the folks who move on to the corporate office?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I know the answer to that. Costco promotes from within but I think everyone starts in the warehouse. Another relative worked for costco with her college degree as a cashier. She jumped into corporate and started climbing the ladder. Most people she knew did that. All had college degrees. Very few just jumped into corporate without starting bottom up to learn the business.

[dawnwes]

You should check out my pharmacy techs. 50% of them have a degree in a social science..the other 50% were either high school students who worked at CVS or went to tech school for 6 months.

Believe it Steve. Go and ask around at the bank or your nearest super market. You'll be surprised how many people are college graduates.

These are anecdotal and irrelevant if they aren't backed by facts. Links?

[disneysteve]

I know the answer to that. Costco promotes from within but I think everyone starts in the warehouse. Another relative worked for costco with her college degree as a cashier. She jumped into corporate and started climbing the ladder. Most people she knew did that. All had college degrees. Very few just jumped into corporate without starting bottom up to learn the business.

My question was how many of those entry level warehouse workers or cashiers would have been able to climb the corporate ladder without a college degree? They may not have needed a degree to be hired but probably needed one to rise through the ranks.

[Singuy]

These are anecdotal and irrelevant if they aren't backed by facts. Links?

That's a little biased. So many people counter my arguments with "I know of someone who bla bla bla" and I don't see you asking for their links.

I provided you with a study that illustrates the correlation between non-professional degrees and their likelihood of getting a job utilizing such degree. 27% is not a small number. I'm sure everyone knows such and such who have done something great with their social science major.


Look..everyone here scrutinize every penny and investments to get ahead in life. When it comes to education and the invest in one-self..all of a sudden logic goes out the door.

You need to understand that the price of education in today's market is NO JOKE. Steve, you are still paying 30k/year in tuition PLUS 10k room and board. Perhaps in the past you can screw around, jump from majors to majors, and graduate after 8 years with no student loan debt. Today is no longer that day.

How often can you replicate success with a social science degree vs a professional degree is the question you need to ask yourself. If you have only a 27% chance of replicating that..then maybe you should invest your money elsewhere(like trade schools or something that correlates well like professional school). 20 years ago, having a history degree may or may not yield a job..but who cares? You had your fun and your student loan debt is probably 5k. In today's market, you either find a job that pays well or you'll be poor for life. It's a very dangerous game to play when it comes to college education.

Telling yourself that "I know someone who is such and such" can potentially cloud your judgment. No one here mentioned the amount of MRS. degrees female got from their college education. Do you need a bachelors to stay at home? People call social science degrees a MRS degree for a reason.

I don't think we are helping people who read this forum(younger people) by telling them the degree you pick doesn't matter, but it's the individual. It's statements like this that sometimes cause greatness...but more often then not causes people to have mountains of student loan debt with no ways to pay it off. Americans overestimates their competence. At the end of the day, telling your child "you can do anything in life..as long as you have a college degree" used to be okay, but today it is a costly advice.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb03/overestimate.aspx

[disneysteve]

You need to understand that the price of education in today's market is NO JOKE. Steve, you are still paying 30k/year in tuition PLUS 10k room and board.

In today's market, you either find a job or you'll be poor for life. It's a very dangerous game to play when it comes to college education.

I'm not sure why you assumed the figures I gave didn't include room and board but you're incorrect in that assumption. The 30K is total for everything. Yes, I certainly realize that that is still a substantial amount of money. But that's also why we started saving early on.

So far, we're 2 years in and not a penny in debt. Right now, we can't afford to pay her full way for the remaining 2 years, but I'm probably changing jobs in the near future. If I do, that would allow us to fully fund the rest of her undergrad degree, or at least very nearly so, meaning minimal student loan debt. She also has a "secret weapon" because she receives annuity payments from a legal settlement that will allow her to easily handle student loan payments after graduation without relying on her current income at the time. That's part of why we were comfortable with her going to a somewhat more costly school. Besides, the main state school here would have cost only about 5K/year less than the far better (for her) private school where she would have been lost in a sea of nearly 40,000 students instead of just over 4,000.

[Singuy]

I'm not sure why you assumed the figures I gave didn't include room and board but you're incorrect in that assumption. The 30K is total for everything. Yes, I certainly realize that that is still a substantial amount of money. But that's also why we started saving early on.

.

Sorry, that's because I as talking about tuition and you mentioned people don't pay sticker price because of scholarships. This led me to assume you were just talking about tuition.

[dawnwes]

My answers are in bold.

And as I have said previously, if I get a job soon, part of my salary will be going towards allowing my kids more choices when it comes to college. Our goal is no debt for either us or our kids.

That's a little biased. So many people counter my arguments with "I know of someone who bla bla bla" and I don't see you asking for their links.

No. I am not picking on you. You are just coming across as argumentative without real data to support what you are saying. And I admit the snarky comment about your wife not being focused made me twitch.

I provided you with a study that illustrates the correlation between non-professional degrees and their likelihood of getting a job utilizing such degree. 27% is not a small number. I'm sure everyone knows such and such who have done something great with their social science major.

There are all sorts of studies that support that a college degree earns more overall. No specific data on what those with degrees they aren't using "exactly" make in comparison. I am not doing the work of my undergrad degree, neither is my husband, but we ARE doing what our graduate degrees support. We are fine with that.

Here is one such study.

http://study.com/articles/How_Much_More_Do_College_Graduates_Earn_Than_Non-College_Graduates.html

Look..everyone here scrutinize every penny and investments to get ahead in life. When it comes to education and the invest in one-self..all of a sudden logic goes out the door.

You need to understand that the price of education in today's market is NO JOKE. Steve, you are still paying 30k/year in tuition PLUS 10k room and board. Perhaps in the past you can screw around, jump from majors to majors, and graduate after 8 years with no student loan debt. Today is no longer that day.

How many children do you have?

How often can you replicate success with a social science degree vs a professional degree is the question you need to ask yourself. If you have only a 27% chance of replicating that..then maybe you should invest your money elsewhere(like trade schools or something that correlates well like professional school). 20 years ago, having a history major may or may not yield a job..but who cares? You had your fun and your student loan debt is probably 5k. In today's market, you either find a job that pays well or you'll be poor for life. It's a very dangerous game to play when it comes to college education.

Sorry, money is NOT everything. There is a lot to be said for being fulfilled. Sure, you need to support yourself and not rely on someone else to take care of you, but the goal is not to just grab all you can.

Telling yourself that "I know someone who is such and such" can potentially cloud your judgment. No one here mentioned the amount of MRS. degrees female got from their college education. Do you need a bachelors to stay at home? People call social science degrees a MRS degree for a reason.

I don't think we are helping people who read this forum(younger people) by telling them the degree you pick doesn't matter, but it's the individual. It's statements like this that sometimes cause greatness...but more often then not causes people to have mountains of student loan debt with no ways to pay it off. Americans overestimates their competence. At the end of the day, telling your child "you can do anything in life..as long as you have a college degree" used to be okay, but today it is a costly advice.

I disagree. No one here is saying to go into "mounds" of debt over an art degree. I haven't heard that yet on these boards. We all make decisions based on many, many factors. Aptitude, passion, and yes, the ability to make it out in the real world, are all part of the decision making process.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb03/overestimate.aspx

[Nutria]

I provided you with a study that illustrates the correlation between non-professional degrees and their likelihood of getting a job utilizing such degree. 27% is not a small number. I'm sure everyone knows such and such who have done something great with their social science major.

It's not the 27% which is worrisome, it's the 62% who get jobs which don't require college educations.

Think about that: five of every eight college grads wasted four years "experiencing" college, most of them accruing lot's of debt.

[Singuy]

My answers are in bold.

And as I have said previously, if I get a job soon, part of my salary will be going towards allowing my kids more choices when it comes to college. Our goal is no debt for either us or our kids.

I provided REAL data! 62% of college grads pretty much wasted their time and money. When you add a completion rate of only 56%, only 1/4 college attendees ended up not wasting their time. So then if we add that 73% of majors are NOT utilized..then that means there's a 1 in 10 chance that a freshman who picked a social science major can graduate within 6 years, get a job that requires a college degree AND it's also in the chosen major's field.

Yes. college grads make more...but these numbers are more likely boosted by majors that can yield good returns vs HS students(since HS has no diversity...no one HS grad is more valuable in the job market than any other). Also the returns you get from being a college grad is still worth it if you go to a community college/state university. I don't know how from a mathematically standpoint can a brand name private university plus years and years of private school can justify that small increase in returns.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/05/30/5-facts-about-todays-college-graduates/

I have one child.

And again, I am NOT talking about money being everything. That's another argument all in itself. If you can pay cash for this expensive education then go ahead! I am pointing out how dangerous a college education is today. It was pretty important to pick the right majors before, but it's down right mandatory nowadays.

You saving up so your child can have freedom in their education preferences without consequences is a gift you are providing for your child. I am just arguing that from an investment standpoint, you probably can seek better return elsewhere. From a gift standpoint..you can't give your child anything better.

Unfortunately not everyone can afford to provide their children with such gifts because resources are limited.