Private and Public School

[moneybags]

But Singuy you just said "A, B, C, or D" majors or your DK gets nothing pretty much.

You still are dictating. I know the others feel the same it doesn't matter what they pick and I think Steve and Dawn are guiding their children financially as we talk about here. They just aren't forcing their kids to go into "High earning" careers. I feel they are educating their kids on different career options and paths, I just think that you can't accept that parents can guide and help their kids without forcing career major's a, b, c, or d.

You can definitely guide without dictating. My DD is about to graduate from an expensive private school. My personal opinion is that STEM fields are the way to go. I know some people think just having any degree will get you a good job, but I think times have changed and that isn't the case anymore. So, I encouraged my DD to pick a STEM field; she did not start out set on one. She happens to be really good at math & science, so it made sense. It worked out; she's graduating with a STEM degree and moving on to a fully funded grad program.

A friend once told me "You can teach an engineer to be a manager, but you can't teach a manager to be an engineer."

[Nutria]

A friend once told me "You can teach an engineer to be a manager, but you can't teach a manager to be an engineer."

For some scary Asperger's definition of "manager".

Better is, "more engineers can be competent managers than managers can be competent engineers."

[dawnwes]

If it's in a 529 or UGMA, there's nothing to stop the girl.

Anyway... if her parents aren't divorced, alcoholics, abusive, etc she most likely won't want to.

Also, you just don't get "a degree in psychology" to become a therapist. You get at minimum a Masters, and preferably a Doctorate. And even then you earn peanuts unless you luck out into therapizing rich fools in NYC or LA.

Oh good grief. That is absolutely not true. There are many therapists who have not had trauma in their lives.

And I am not talking about continuing school later, I am talking about the comment that she cannot get an UNDERGRADUATE degree in Psychology period.

You really are way off base here.

[dawnwes]

For some scary Asperger's definition of "manager".

Better is, "more engineers can be competent managers than managers can be competent engineers."

Scary and Asperger's? As the mother of a child with Asperger's who happens to be incredibly intelligent, this is really an unintelligent thing to say.

Unbelievable.

[Singuy]

No one is saying she's not allowed to get a psychology degree. If she wanders into a university without any type of goal in mind and found psychology to be very interesting and decided to get a bachelors in it...she can (and probably will).

But I, as a parent, also did a terrible job pointing her toward success is all I am saying. I am not blaming the kids..but the parents!

I am not forcing anyone to do anything they absolutely hate. I am just not encouraging a life without educating about the consequences.

You know what's hilarious? Go ask students on campus about their degree. A lot will even tell you what they are studying is useless. Honestly, a lot of them are just there for the college experience and to get hitched.

Dawnwes, I admire your optimism. Perhaps it's just a cultural thing. We Asians are more about realism. We understand that just because my child is good at basketball, doesn't mean he can one day be a NBA player. Just like psychology..yeah sure there are counselors job out there..but if you compare the amount of psychology degree recipients to psychology related jobs..I rather put my chances on my child being a NBA player.
We understand the saying "if you put your mind into it..you can do anything". For the most part this is true. Too bad most people don't put their mind into anything due to laziness (myself included). You have to add this into the equation and be realistic.
Yeah my child can get straight As in psychology class, network like no one's business. Do after school research with the professors. Apply for internships way prior to graduation..have her foot set in many doors so with the opportunity comes up..she can pounce at it no one other. Doing all of this can maximize her chances of getting a career..but it's a lot of hoops to jump through and a lot of people give up or could care less. When was the last time you see your child having an action plan and follow through step by step..giving their 110%? If your child is in this camp..then Great! You don't have to worry about anything. She/he will become the president of a company one day so why even worry.

My conclusion still stands. Unless you have the ability to bank roll your child and could care less about returns on investment, private school doesn't yield the returns you gain vs public schools. Even for the argument that say the student get a counselor job making 40k/year. Investing 35k into this student for the degree is more worth it than investing 150k for the same degree and result. This is all I am saying. I think some of you guys are equating "money spent" with "love" or something.....Because I bet you 100% of the time, if I were to ask you "would you rather spend 150k for a house that is worth 40k or 35k for a house that's worth 40k..I'm pretty sure no one picks the 150k option. The ONLY reason why you would spend 150k for a house that is worth 40k is due to emotional attachment...say you grew up in that house and it gave you sentimental value. Just like private school..you believe it gives you a value that is not calculable...

[dawnwes]

No one is saying she's not allowed to get a psychology degree. If she wanders into a university without any type of goal in mind and found psychology to be very interesting and decided to get a bachelors in it...she can (and probably will).

But I, as a parent, also did a terrible job pointing her toward success is all I am saying. I am not blaming the kids..but the parents!

I am not forcing anyone to do anything they absolutely hate. I am just not encouraging a life without educating about the consequences.

You know what's hilarious? Go ask students on campus about their degree. A lot will even tell you what they are studying is useless. Honestly, a lot of them are just there for the college experience and to get hitched.

Dawnwes, I admire your optimism. Perhaps it's just a cultural thing. We Asians are more about realism. We understand that just because my child is good at basketball, doesn't mean he can one day be a NBA player. Just like psychology..yeah sure there are counselors job out there..but if you compare the amount of psychology degree recipients to psychology related jobs..I rather put my chances on my child being a NBA player.
We understand the saying "if you put your mind into it..you can do anything". For the most part this is true. Too bad most people don't put their mind into anything due to laziness. You have to add this into the equation and be realistic.
Yeah my child can get straight As in psychology class, network like no one's business. Do after school research with the professors. Apply for internships way prior to graduation..have her foot set in many doors so with the opportunity comes up..she can pounce at it no one other. Doing all of this can maximize her chances of getting a career..but it's a lot of hoops to jump through and a lot of people give up or could care less. When was the last time you see your child having an action plan and follow through step by step..giving their 110%? If your child is in this camp..then Great! You don't have to worry about anything. She/he will become the president of a company one day so why even worry.

That is one GIANT leap of an assumption. I have no such false pretenses. But I also know that not everyone getting a "valuable" degree wants to get it, or plans to actually follow through with what they are getting.

I have FIVE friends who are Asian with Psychology degrees. All are now doing quite well in their careers. One is a School Psych, three are therapist, and one became a Psychiatrist. Of COURSE they needed further education, but they were raised in homes with first gen. to America parents. All are Chinese, just in case you are wondering.

I am laughing a bit because my friends all refer to me as the realist. You aren't good at math and science, don't major is a STEM field. What is your passion, your drive, your love? See if there is a way to make a living doing it and make enough to do ok. If money is your only driving force, then, hey, find something to bring in the money.

Dawn

[Nutria]

Scary and Asperger's? As the mother of a child

Momma runs to her baby's defense without paying attention to the topic of the post.

with Asperger's who happens to be incredibly intelligent, this is really an unintelligent thing to say.

Being an tech guy with a bit of OCD and probably a tad of Asperger's (and people say is pretty smart), who's been in the trenches of the tech industry for decades, and thus been around a lot of weird, asocial tech geniuses, I can categorically state...

Unbelievable.

that it's completely believable that they'd make h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e horrible managers (not people, but managers), for the same reason I'd make a horrible manager, and have avoided it for all my time in the industry: we love computers because they're rational, and humans are... irrational and squishy.

.

[disneysteve]

No one is saying she's not allowed to get a psychology degree.

But I, as a parent, also did a terrible job pointing her toward success is all I am saying.

So you would consider yourself having failed as a parent if your daughter gets a psychology degree? Am I reading that correctly?

I totally agree with you about getting the degree (any degree) in a cost-effective manner. Yes, the 35K cost is better than the 150K cost all things being equal (which they never truly are but let's just assume).

I think the point you're getting push back on is the comments you keep making just as the one referenced above.

[Nutria]

So you would consider yourself having failed as a parent if your daughter gets a psychology degree? Am I reading that correctly?

No, I don't think you are.

Doing a "terrible job" (his words) at one aspect of parenting in no way shape or form means "failure".
.

[disneysteve]

No, I don't think you are.

Doing a "terrible job" (his words) at one aspect of parenting in no way shape or form means "failure".
.

I realize that. I didn't mean complete failure. I meant failure in that particular area. Let me clarify my question.

Singuy, would you consider yourself having failed as far as "pointing her toward success" if she ends up getting a psychology degree?

[Singuy]

I realize that. I didn't mean complete failure. I meant failure in that particular area. Let me clarify my question.

Singuy, would you consider yourself having failed as far as "pointing her toward success" if she ends up getting a psychology degree?

No, I said IF my daughter WANDERS into a university without a direction and just so happened to like X,Y, and Z that may not be a good major(because she doesn't know any better), THeN I have failed. If she was led to believe that all majors are fair game when it comes to job prospective, then I have failed. If she thinks getting into 200k worth of student loans to study music theory with no action plan on how she can pay this money back..then I have failed.

If I have fully explained what she needs to know and she picks psychology anyways, then it has nothing to do with me. If she have heard all the warnings and looked away from all the incentives and want a psychology degree anyways, then she is clearly motivate..vs half-ass motivated. This actually can lead to something..rather than changing majors every semester and eventually graduate with ...whatever...Look at the numbers, 59% of students graduate after 6 YEARS! How many students graduate after 4? These are just sad sad statistics...because too many students walk around with an "undecided" major.

So if your child need some soul searching while wasting valuable dollars doing so(and by soul searching I mean partying)...then later can't graduate or find a job..this I blame the parents.

Dawnwes, your argument is that all 5 people you knew who are Chinese can't find a job with a bachelors of psychology? How is that helping your case? I mean one became a psychiatrist? It takes med school to get that person a job? Again, how is this helping your case? It's like my friend who is "successful" making 6 figures having a psychology degree...he just had to go back to school again for IT and then ends up with a job....If you stay in school long enough for underwater basket weaving..you can eventually become a teacher of underwater basket weaving....no one is questioning that...

[Nutria]

No, I said IF my daughter WANDERS into a university without a direction and just so happened to like X,Y, and Z that may not be a good major(because she doesn't know any better), THAN I have failed.

And if your daughter doesn't know what she wants, but does know that she can't stand accounting, chemistry, etc?

[Singuy]

And if your daughter doesn't know what she wants, but does know that she can't stand accounting, chemistry, etc?

Then she should soul search for free at home (ideally this is done in HS). Go volunteer all over the place and see what she wants to do as a career. There are trade schools and specialty schools all over that tailors to specific jobs.

Lets say she wants to be a writer..then WRITE. I'll help her with blogging and help her even publish. You really don't need to have an English or Literature degree just to write.

If she's interested in history, then Go to the library and study up..this is just an interest..I have many interests but I can't make a career out of them....if she wants to be a history teacher..then minor in history and major in education and get a masters in education.

If she wants to be a librarian, that's actually a major.

If she wants to be a school counselor, then volunteer and see what is required..if psychology is required then go ahead and get that degree..or dual major in psychology and education.

If she just wants to sit around and not do anything...welp..you can go to Target and get a job as a cashier...

You see money is not everything...if you want a job that may be difficult to obtain, then you better have an action plan. How many students do you know focus like this with pinpoint accuracy? They are more like "oh psychology is really interesting and I love the class! I'll major in it"..have no idea what to do afterwards...

You set your goals first, then attack straight on like an arrow. With every action plan, you better be able to calculate the investments vs earnings before diving in. It's okay to get a 35k student loan to be a school counselor...but if you want to a 150k loan at a brand name university for the same goal..then I question why you want to be poor for the rest of your life.

I treat college as a tool, not a place for my hobbies. But hey, nothing wrong with studying x, y, and z as a hobby though..if you can pay for it go ahead. I can think of way worst things you can sink money into that are hobbies.

[dawnwes]

Momma runs to her baby's defense without paying attention to the topic of the post.



Being an tech guy with a bit of OCD and probably a tad of Asperger's (and people say is pretty smart), who's been in the trenches of the tech industry for decades, and thus been around a lot of weird, asocial tech geniuses, I can categorically state...



that it's completely believable that they'd make h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e horrible managers (not people, but managers), for the same reason I'd make a horrible manager, and have avoided it for all my time in the industry: we love computers because they're rational, and humans are... irrational and squishy.

.

Do not try to patronize me and stop the personal attacks. I am well aware of what the topic is. You made Asperger's into something negative and it is rude.

You have relished in trying to be a bully and made personal attacks.

We will never agree because you can't have a decent conversation without bringing insults into it.

[dawnwes]

No, I said IF my daughter WANDERS into a university without a direction and just so happened to like X,Y, and Z that may not be a good major(because she doesn't know any better), THeN I have failed. If she was led to believe that all majors are fair game when it comes to job prospective, then I have failed. If she thinks getting into 200k worth of student loans to study music theory with no action plan on how she can pay this money back..then I have failed.

If I have fully explained what she needs to know and she picks psychology anyways, then it has nothing to do with me. If she have heard all the warnings and looked away from all the incentives and want a psychology degree anyways, then she is clearly motivate..vs half-ass motivated. This actually can lead to something..rather than changing majors every semester and eventually graduate with ...whatever...Look at the numbers, 59% of students graduate after 6 YEARS! How many students graduate after 4? These are just sad sad statistics...because too many students walk around with an "undecided" major.

So if your child need some soul searching while wasting valuable dollars doing so(and by soul searching I mean partying)...then later can't graduate or find a job..this I blame the parents.

Dawnwes, your argument is that all 5 people you knew who are Chinese can't find a job with a bachelors of psychology? How is that helping your case? I mean one became a psychiatrist? It takes med school to get that person a job? Again, how is this helping your case? It's like my friend who is "successful" making 6 figures having a psychology degree...he just had to go back to school again for IT and then ends up with a job....If you stay in school long enough for underwater basket weaving..you can eventually become a teacher of underwater basket weaving....no one is questioning that...

My CASE is simply that people should follow their passions. Yes, they also need to be realistic and make a living. That includes all races. You made a flying leap to assume that all Asians are better because they GET that just because you are good at basketball, you will go straight to the NBA. I made no such assumptions.

My CASE is that not all undergraduate degrees that YOU deem "bad" are necessarily a negative thing and they can lead to something else, PERIOD. I never, ever, ever said that someone should make 6 figures straight out of undergrad with a degree. It is rarely possible. EVEN YOU went to grad school. As did I. As did my Dh. As did my parents.