How would you consider this situation in the Boston area

**Ryder69** · 11-17-2009, 02:33 PM

I normally lurk, but since I live in the Boston area, thought I'd give you some insight. When we moved here, DH's income was just about 6000 take-home/month, another house in MI that we rented out (and still do),and we had a lot of CC debt. DH now makes 130k/year and we live very comfortably.

I think given your numbers, you should be okay depending on where you are looking at living.

Your rent budget is about right. When we looked at renting around Boston, we considered areas such as Braintree, Quincy, Canton, and Bedford and found 2-3 bedrooms for around 2000. Places like Lexington were higher - 2 bedrooms for 2200 and up. But that was before the market crashed, and you may be able to find a house for rent in that range. Be sure to scout out a website such as Apartments.com. That will give you an idea of pricing (although there are always specials that are not advertised).

Utilities will be higher - natural gas over the winter is 200-300/mo for us (we have a 2000 sf house). Summer is MUCH cheaper (15-20/mo). That doesn't include electric. Because we have solar panels, I can't judge what that would be, and I'm not sure about oil either.

Preschool for us was $300/month for daily, 3 hrs/day.

I have a $400/month food budget for 5 that I can usually stick to. Gas is tricky because DH travels for his job and they cover a lot of it.

Your other numbers are right. Car insurance for us (2 vehicles) is 1100/year.

We currently live an hour NW of Boston and have a new construction home. But yes, a lot of the homes are older, and definitely more expensive than GA.

On the PLUS side - I absolutely love the region. I fell in love with it the moment we came here. The seasons are great (if you don't mind snow) and Boston has so much to offer in the way of culture and entertainment.

I will say that the market here did not drop as badly as other areas, so it still isn't cheap. 30 minutes out of Boston in a decent area will still be 500k or more. An hour out, 275-350. But on a plus note, employment here doesn't appear as bad as in other areas - DH's company is actually hiring.

It is tough going from such a modest COL area to one that is so high. Other things to consider - what sort of benefits does this company offer your DH? 401K, health insurance, etc.? The schools in the area are MUCH better than GA, is that important for you? (Not meant snarkily, many with small children don't worry about this until later...) Property taxes may SEEM high compared to what you have now, but there are worse areas. Taxachusetts gets thrown around a lot, but we found it is cheaper tax-wise than NC was.

If your DH is willing to do a bit of a nasty commute, you may want to consider the NH border - Nashua is a rather large city that is cheaper overall. We rented a 3 bedroom TH for 1650/month. And no state income taxes, so definitely cheaper. But the schools weren't nearly as good, and we preferred MA, so we bought here.

Good luck with your move!

**syracusa** · 11-17-2009, 03:54 PM

Thanks, Ryder. From the ino I gathered over the past few months, it seems like we will be able to stay afloat but far from living comfortably. We certainly won't have as much disposable income as we had in GA and will not be able to save as much, of at all.

Yes, schools ARE important to us and this is why we are looking in areas where you get very little house for a whole lot of money.
As for benefits, the company provides some including 401K and health insurance (but health insurance is bad, an HMO).
All in all, I get the feeling 100,000 in MA is certainly not passport to a comfortable life. What is worse is that this job can fly out the window any moment, just like the other one did.

**Ryder69** · 11-17-2009, 04:44 PM

I won't lie - it was tough for us at first, but we also had $800/month in credit card payments and $800 in car payments. Those are gone now. You appear to be in a better position - but no, 100k isn't "comfortable" in terms of saving a lot and having disposable income when looking at the more expensive areas.

Does your husband have prospects for moving up the income ladder in Boston? Can he switch jobs fairly easily or is he very specialized? You mentioned you are in higher education - there are many opportunities in the area for that (I was a professor, but stay at home now).

It sounds like you are having a very difficult time with this - and it is so hard to move without knowing what can happen. We did that 5 years ago because we had no choice, and we were lucky - it was the right decision. I will say that the Boston area is good in that it is a large city and has a lot of employment options - so finding another job would be easier than in GA. Also, salaries tend to go up commensurate with the higher COL, so your husband will hopefully be making more in a few years. Of course, with this economy, there are no guarantees.

I can say for myself, living here was worth the struggle. The schools are great, my kids are happy, and my husband has a lot of options when it comes to jobs. He is currently faced with taking a FT job in NYC for quite a bit more money and I told him he'd have to commute, I wouldn't move - talk about a high COL!. I hope that you are able to find a situation that offers you the same

.

**syracusa** · 11-17-2009, 07:16 PM

Ryder,

I am not sure about prospects for moving up the income ladder. He says he does but I, for one, don't trust a soul in the private sector.
He had 11 years with his company and exemplary performance all the way through, yet they still found it OK to lay him off without any remorse.
The current company refused to negotiate salary, they did not even budge on their offer and also did not help with any relocation costs. But we had no choice. In this market, we are supposed to "kiss their feet" for giving us a job, any job.

So given the start, I am certainly not inclined to believe they will soon make him "king of the castle" if he "works hard". He has worked very hard and very well in the past - and the result was quite disgusting, as far as I am concerned. (Speaking of which, I don't think there is a more over-rated, over-used and over-abused expression in the English-speaking world than "working hard" ).

No, he can't switch jobs easily. He is very specialized, also quite highly-skilled (but so what?) and this is exactly why we could not afford to wait in GA for another opportunity to come up for him. This would have allowed me to keep my full-time job here but this ended up not being an option.
He knew he had to take this offer, come H or high water.

Yes, I am a professor too - one who had a good job in the South but also one who does not have 1000 publications on her CV to compete with 1000 candidates per full-time, tenure-track opening in the Boston area - most of whom have degrees from prestigious universities minus the diapers I have had to deal with in the past 4 years. So in all honesty, I don't have hopes for a full-time job in MA. The best I can look forward to is some online adjuncting with my current university or in the future, some other universities that offer online courses.

Better yet, we are thinking about finding a way to slowly transition to an online/telecommuting arrangement from my home country in a couple of years or so. The cost of living there is lower and we have a house paid off. That would be a major step ahead, for starters. We are not sure though to what extent this dream is realistic.

**wincrasher** · 11-18-2009, 04:19 AM

Not sure it really sounds like a good move in the long run - you giving up a solid job and moving to a HCOLA. Unless you are going private school, the public schools are probably the same in any metro area - not terribly good. Your kids could probably have gone to college in GA for free as well.

In the current economy, it's not companies doing this to people - it's people doing it. People taking advantage of other people. People who make decisions and people who think they shouldn't pay just because they don't have to. It is disgusting, but unfortunately, it's the system. Just remember that when things turn around, and they will, then he needs to either get more money out of them, or leave for something better.

Corporate America killed employee loyalty many years ago.

**LivingAlmostLarge** · 11-18-2009, 05:58 AM

I live in the area and pretty much in Boston. It's not easy to make a living on $100k in the city. You will need to live 1 hour out and commute to get $2350.

That's our mortgage for a 3 bd townhouse that is OLD. Price we pay to live within a 20 minute commute.

We struggle on $130k, but mostly because of my DH's tution bills. But now we have a baby instead on the way and I'm sure it'll be pricey. Truth is I probably won't work and instead wait and see if we move out of the area.

Your heating bills are low. But then again maybe the place you rent is better insulated than ours. We spend around $400/month to heat in the winter and $300/month electric for heating @ 55. We're cold. But we finally insulated our house this year the first two floors which we thought had some insulation, turns out not.

God I hate the area. The price, the weather, the living, yuck! Can't wait to leave.

**syracusa** · 11-18-2009, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

I live in the area and pretty much in Boston. It's not easy to make a living on $100k in the city. You will need to live 1 hour out and commute to get $2350.

My husband will in fact not work in the city - he will work in Reading, a suburb of Boston. We're looking in the suburbs too, 15 miles radius of that suburb. In the city it is indeed prohibitive but we are not looking there. He put 200 a month electric on AVERAGE for the year. He says some months in winter may indeed be 400, but then again, summers will be next to nothing.

Given that you sort of scared me, I told him what you wrote - completely unassumingly - and he is quite intrigued as to how ANYONE can struggle on a 130,000 a year, ANYWHERE in the US, when they don't even have children yet. He guessed you may have (nice) car payments or other "extras" beyond your husband's tuition bills. We don't have any "extras" but we will have almost yearly plane tickets to Europe (at home) because struggle or not, I cannot give up seeing my family and visit home.

I do have to say that struggle at 130,000 a year/no kids yet is a bit of an enigma for me too.

**syracusa** · 11-18-2009, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by wincrasher View Post

Not sure it really sounds like a good move in the long run - you giving up a solid job and moving to a HCOLA. Unless you are going private school, the public schools are probably the same in any metro area - not terribly good. Your kids could probably have gone to college in GA for free as well.

In the current economy, it's not companies doing this to people - it's people doing it. People taking advantage of other people. People who make decisions and people who think they shouldn't pay just because they don't have to. It is disgusting, but unfortunately, it's the system. Just remember that when things turn around, and they will, then he needs to either get more money out of them, or leave for something better.

Corporate America killed employee loyalty many years ago.

What is an HCOLA?

Husband is convinced this was THE ONLY move there was. He has no career prospects in Atlanta left and my solid job here would not have been enough to support the family in GA.

We will not go to private school, but to a very good public school in the MA suburbs. From what we read, many of those are as good as top private schools in the country. In GA we would have gone public school too anyway, not private; and having had students coming from that top high school in GA we were looking at, I can say in all honesty the best of GA must be pretty crappy in the large scheme of things - as the students could barely spell and their level was overall quite infantile; and that was considered BEST of GA.

College in GA? I was "in the business" here and I will confess I would NOT have wanted my kids to attend ANY public university in GA. The overall level is low, to put it bluntly. Emory - yes. But that "ain't" public, and it "ain't" free for sure.

Originally posted by wincrasher View Post

In the current economy, it's not companies doing this to people - it's people doing it. People taking advantage of other people. People who make decisions and people who think they shouldn't pay just because they don't have to. It is disgusting, but unfortunately, it's the system

You seem to contradict yourself. First, it's the people. Then, it's the system. But one way or the other, it's not companies' fault. Let alone that companies are the ones that choose to let people go on a whim, even when they know they destroy families by doing that. "Small children involved? Health problems? Family around? Noooot a problem. You're on your own, body, just pack up and go wherever you can".

Aren't companies "people"? And yes, I agree it is the system - a system supported by many individuals in this country who cling blindly to the ideology that businesses must be allowed to do whatever they want, no matter what, or else the entire America turns into a Hell.

The Hell is already here and Americans live it every day. We hope to escape it in a couple of years top.

**reallyprettyhappy** · 11-18-2009, 07:45 AM

OK, this is going to sound harsh, but I think you may need a little bit of tough love.

It is clear that you are very bitter about your husband losing his job. Fair enough. It sucks. It's not fair. I understand your feelings and I think that the millions of other people in this country who have recently lost their jobs are probably a bit disgruntled right along with you.

However, I think it would do you a world of good to get over it. Go ahead and give yourself one or two days, a week tops, to feel sorry for yourself. Get it all out. Grieve your heart out. Cry all you want and stay in bed all day if you want to. Then when it's all out, get yourself up, dust yourself off and take your first step forward. Try to be GRATEFUL that your husband found another job instantly. That is a wonderful blessing. Now adapt. Try to look forward with excitement and make the best out of it. Being bitter won't help anything and will only serve to rot you from the inside out. You have to figure out a way to let it go.

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I'm no stranger to hardship and I want to pass along what I've learned, for whatever it is worth. While mine is not financial, I have had to learn how to deal with a husband who is in the military, serving rotating six month on, six month off deployments overseas. We have been dealing with this for the past four years and will have to for the foreseeable future. We've also moved 4 times in the past 5 years to completely different parts of the country, so I know how scary that can be. You are right to want to gather as much info as you can about your new surroundings. It will be hard, but if you approach it with a positive attitude, it will be so much easier on you and your whole family.

I'm trying hard to be patient with some of your comments disparaging this country because I realize that you are coming from a place of deep frustration and disappointment. But it must be said that whenever I hear someone complaining about our country/system/leadership the same thought passes through my mind: if you don't like it here, you are welcome to leave. No one is forcing you to stay, and for you in particular, you may be happier in your 'home' country anyway. I truly wish your family luck and happiness.

**wincrasher** · 11-18-2009, 08:24 AM

Well actually I was agreeing with you.

People hide behind the faceless corporation. But really it's people screwing other people.

I'd disagree and say that Georgia Tech (Athens) is a fine institution. They graduate many fine engineers and scientists who earn a very good living. The University of Georgia is also a good school as I've known many competent associates from there.

This is for Really - the great thing about our country is that you can freely say that it sucks. America changes when people make it happen, not when the leadeship decides to take pity on us. "Love it or leave it" is a philosophy for the ignorant and the dim-witted.

You do give good advice in that you have to get the bitterness out of your system and just move on. It's not healthy to carry that around.

**reallyprettyhappy** · 11-18-2009, 08:41 AM

wincrasher, I'm not a huge fan of 'love it or leave it' either, which is why I don't say it aloud as often as I think it. I only even mention it in this case because of how much she seems to be saying it herself. She seems to really dislike this country and already expresses the intent/desire to leave it. I was only extending the invitation to go ahead and do so. I generally have no problem with fellow citizens expressing discontent. It just rubs me the wrong way when "foreigners"* do so...

* To OP, I mean no disrespect by calling you a 'foreigner'. I have no idea what your citizenship status is. I really only mean it in this case as people who's 'home' country is not the US. Your posts indicated that you regard another country as your true 'home', so I thought it reasonable to apply this term to your situation.

**carpevacationum** · 11-18-2009, 09:32 AM

Hi Everyone:

Usually just enjoy reading everyone's posts, but since I live in Massachusetts, I thought I would post on this one.

Just want to re-assure the OP that I do think you will be able to manage financially in the Boston area.

We are about an hour outside of Boston (central mass.) in a great town with great schools. Our house is valued at around $375K and our mortgage is about $1300 a month including all the taxes.

My dh is a town employee in another town and makes about $80k a year. I am a SAHM who subs at one of the local schools. Any money I make we don't really count since it is very sporadic. We have 3 kids who are 13, 11 and 9.

We live in a 2800 sq ft house that is about 10 years old. Our winter heat runs about $2500 if we only use oil. But...we have 2 pellet stoves that we installed last winter and spent only $1100 to heat our home to a comfortable 72 degrees every day.

I understand your concern with the cost of rent/mortgage, but definitely think you would be able to find cheaper housing. I would NEVER pay$2300 a month to rent a place...I'd buy a small condo first. I also know for a fact that you can rent cheaper than that here.

Some areas I would suggest looking in are: Southern NH and towns west of Reading. They will be cheaper than heading towards Boston.

We used to live in Framingham which is 20 miles west of Boston. (45 minutes from Reading) You can still find a 2 bedroom to rent there for under $1500.

I urge you to not give up. Just keep searching and you will find it can be done.

We are doing very comfortably here. You just have to know your limits.

Best of luck to you!

**syracusa** · 11-18-2009, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by reallyprettyhappy View Post

wincrasher, I'm not a huge fan of 'love it or leave it' either, which is why I don't say it aloud as often as I think it. I only even mention it in this case because of how much she seems to be saying it herself. She seems to really dislike this country and already expresses the intent/desire to leave it. I was only extending the invitation to go ahead and do so. I generally have no problem with fellow citizens expressing discontent. It just rubs me the wrong way when "foreigners"* do so...

* To OP, I mean no disrespect by calling you a 'foreigner'. I have no idea what your citizenship status is. I really only mean it in this case as people who's 'home' country is not the US. Your posts indicated that you regard another country as your true 'home', so I thought it reasonable to apply this term to your situation.

Reallyprettyhappy,

Absolutely no hard feelings as I myself, believe it or not, tend to see the core wisdom in the "love it or leave it" philosophy. I didn't say that I DISLIKE everything about this country. I have always liked SOME things about it, but I sincerely believe that the American system has evolved in harmful ways since the time my husband's parents were living THEIR adult lives. The system is no longer serving the majority of the population, which is the very essence of a good place to live. I don't care how much theoretical freedom to achieve "sky's-the-limit" goals there is in any given socio-economic system, as long as only very few get there while most people live in constant fear of losing their jobs, of being uprooted and of losing their local support system. It is a dangerous, unstable way of living, conducive to very low quality of life and because we recongize it as such, we are indeed working towards living this country in a few years.

Unfortunately, we cannot do it instantly, as we would have to secure some sort of satisfactory working arrangement for living there and this will take some time. But I hear you when you say "if you don't like it, leave" - and I am certainly not begrudging anybody for saying that.

Also, don't worry about offending me by calling me a "'foreigner" - after all, this is kind of what my identity has been in this country; even though I DO have American citizenship, my husband is American (many generations here) and my kids are half-American. Yet, he himself is ready to get out simply because our threshold for putting up with a life of instability and insecurity is probably much lower than that of most Americans'.

I cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like if we didn't have this stable refuge abroad and were doomed to sink in the American system, along with most other Americans who have no other choice.

In the meantime though, we will have to deal with the Boston area for a few years as we are not yet financially ready to return home. We don't like it but it is what it is.

**reallyprettyhappy** · 11-18-2009, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by syracusa View Post

it is what it is.

that is a personal mantra of mine as well. We may not be able to control everything, but we can control our reaction to adversity. You might find that the move could even be exciting. For research, I like the city-data forums. I also found a lot of useful information on the actual website for the city that we were moving to, most recently. When you do find a potential area for housing, remember to take a peek at familywatchdog.us, and don't forget to keep every moving-related receipt, as I believe that a move for work is tax deductible. Once you get there and get settled in, you might find some groups that share some of your interests at meetup.com. Also, for renting your house in GA, if it is anywhere near a military base, you might try listing your house for rent on a site geared toward military families like militarybyowner.com or others. I also wonder if the native language that you speak (sorry, I'm assuming that you speak another language fluently here, so if you don't I apologize) is at all marketable for tutoring...you might even be able to find work teaching English as a second language to others who only speak your first language. I don't know if it would be enough to help your family, but I do know that Boston has a pretty good mix of nationalities, so that might be one avenue to explore. Again, good luck!

How would you consider this situation in the Boston area