How would you consider this situation in the Boston area

[syracusa]

Hi Everyone:

We are about an hour outside of Boston (central mass.) in a great town with great schools. Our house is valued at around $375K and our mortgage is about $1300 a month including all the taxes.

This sounds nice. We looked as far as 20 miles west of Reading (Westford, Chelmsford) but by the time we get there, my husband's commute would be way too much. Besides, there's virtually nothing to rent in those remote areas and we cannot buy right now anyway, especially not with likely plans to relocate overseas in a few years.

I understand your concern with the cost of rent/mortgage, but definitely think you would be able to find cheaper housing. I would NEVER pay$2300 a month to rent a place...I'd buy a small condo first. I also know for a fact that you can rent cheaper than that here.

We found that to maintain a reasonable commute to Reading and get into a good to very good school system - it is virtually impossible to get away with anything below 2000$ a month for a family of 4 (who often has family visiting for longer periods of time, too).

You can still find a 2 bedroom to rent there for under $1500.

With our family situation, we would simply not be able to live all crammed into a 2 BR condo. Living above your means is one thing. Completely destroying your family's quality of life is another. We are now looking at a 3 BR house + some sort of bonus room, even though we initially had departed with 4BR in mind. Definitely not doable.

During our week in Ma, we got to look at some 2-family houses in Belmont.
Those were a definite no.

[syracusa]

Also, for renting your house in GA, if it is anywhere near a military base, you might try listing your house for rent on a site geared toward military families like militarybyowner.com or others. I also wonder if the native language that you speak (sorry, I'm assuming that you speak another language fluently here, so if you don't I apologize) is at all marketable for tutoring...you might even be able to find work teaching English as a second language to others who only speak your first language. I don't know if it would be enough to help your family, but I do know that Boston has a pretty good mix of nationalities, so that might be one avenue to explore. Again, good luck!

Prettyhappy,

We managed to rent out our townhouse in GA quite quickly. That is a gem of a townhouse in the best location Atlanta could come up with, so here is some for having left it behind to move into some ugly MA place.

My native language is one of the most non-marketable you could imagine, so definitely not a source for extra income. I am still grateful for being able to keep some online teaching, otherwise 90,000 would be all we could count on and that would surely not be pretty. I hope to get the family income up to about 110,000 with my online teaching, but nothing above that is possible - especially that I will also be at home with the kids. Husband has a promise for a 5000$ raise when he finishes yet another professional designation, but it will be at least a year.

We were used to saving quite a bit in GA and the fact that we will no longer be able to do this is what bothers me most. We can probably continue to save some, but it will not be a lot and it will require constant scrimping. I am fine with doing that for everyday things but I am really bad about scrimping when it comes to serious purchases.

I was raised with the "I am too poor to buy cheap stuff" mindset and when a serious purchase is lined up, I tend to go for high to very high quality. This is not for status reasons, but simply because I have a major grudge against companies who plot their evil "planned obsolescence" deeds. I hate buying cheap things that break apart in a few months requiring yet another and another purchase.

Yet, nowadays it seems as if "the poor" can no longer afford the "I am too poor to buy cheap stuff" mindset.

[Merch]

One of the reasons Massachusetts is so expensive is the education. Science and Math are rated in top 2 or 3 worldwide according to TIMSS. Also, there are a lot of high paying industries in the Boston area: Biotech, technology, finance, medical, etc. The closer you are to Boston and the better the public schools, the more expensive it is. In Weston, one of the top rated public schools (and better then a lot of private schools) will cost you $700k for a small 1950s ranch.

But you should be able to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle on $6k a month.

My bills are:

Gas and Electic - $300/mo (elctric used more in summer and gas used more in winter)
Food for family of 4 - $100/weeK
Preschool - $380/month per kid
property tax/ins - $700/ month
mortgage - $2,700 (15yr @4.5%)

That's my bare minimium and my house is 2800 sq feet bought new in town an hour train ride to Boston and very good school system.

[LuxLiving]

Syracusa, are you including your rental income from GA home in your income calculations?

[syracusa]

People hide behind the faceless corporation. But really it's people screwing other people.

Wincrasher,

Would you mind if I asked you again what an HCOLA is?

As for "America changes when people make it happen, not when the leadeship decides to take pity on us"...

...I really do wish American people to be able to change whatever this is that has been happening for decades now (culminating in the current Madness), because whatever this is - it is no good.
Yet, I will humbly suggest that most American people are USED TO THIS lifestyle, and are nowhere close to want to change the nomadic, insecure system for real.

When I questioned a system that uproots people at the drop of a hat, at any moment, and turns them into nomadic leaves in the wind, my mother in law said that "well...people in this country just expect that and they are not as upset about it as you are". Yet she says she is so bothered by her son leaving the area. Right. You're either bothered or you're not. You either want family around you or you don't. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't believe that a wild free market system is for the best and expect to have a meaningful, stable, full life with family and long-time friends around. The two simply don't go hand in hand.

[syracusa]

Syracusa, are you including your rental income from GA home in your income calculations?

That's a wash. We cover the mortgage with what we get in rent.

[Merch]

HCOLA is high cost of living area - think NYC, San Francisco, Boston.

Most Americans believe in capitalistic approach, but I disagree with your nomadic life. I have lived in Boston and worked here my entire life. I have worked for various financial firms in the city. I could have had more lucrative jobs in NYC. My wife and I have chosen to stay in Boston for a more balanced life. I make less, but I am home before 7 pm.

[DayByDay]

we would simply not be able to live all crammed into a 2 BR condo. Living above your means is one thing. Completely destroying your family's quality of life is another.

We are a family of 4 (including one adult child and one small child) living in a 2 BR. Our family's quality of life is not "completely destroyed."

I don't understand your complaints about the US that has been providing you good income opportunity for many years, especially when you admit that in your home country you "would have to secure some sort of satisfactory working arrangement for living there and this will take some time."

I don't care how much theoretical freedom to achieve "sky's-the-limit" goals there is in any given socio-economic system, as long as only very few get there while most people live in constant fear of losing their jobs, of being uprooted and of losing their local support system. It is a dangerous, unstable way of living, conducive to very low quality of life and because we recongize it as such, we are indeed working towards living this country in a few years.

Most people I know do not experience what you describe. How is your home country different and which country are you talking about?

[syracusa]

HCOLA is high cost of living area - think NYC, San Francisco, Boston.

Oh. We had no choice. LCOL is not an option when there is NO job in that area. Again, my salary would not have been enough to support the entire family, husband has zero opportunities left in this area (he is highly specialized). Besdies, he would have made a much worse stay-at-home parent than I would and probably, would have slowly gone insane.
He wants to work and Boston had a job for him.

[syracusa]

HCOLA is high cost of living area - think NYC, San Francisco, Boston.

Most Americans believe in capitalistic approach, but I disagree with your nomadic life. I have lived in Boston and worked here my entire life. I have worked for various financial firms in the city. I could have had more lucrative jobs in NYC. My wife and I have chosen to stay in Boston for a more balanced life. I make less, but I am home before 7 pm.

You are the exception. New England is the least mobile part of the US.
Most Americans I know have been hopping from place to place since childhood. Not a lifestyle I fancy.

[syracusa]

Most people I know do not experience what you describe. How is your home country different and which country are you talking about?

The entire Europe is much more stable than the US is. People don't move around that much and they don't lose their jobs at the drop of a hat. Yes, jobs are indeed harder to get but also to lose. Yes, the economy is not as dynamic and as growth-oriented as it is in the US but people there like it this way just fine (I guess just like Americans are OK with moving around their entire lives).
I would too if I'd been lucky enough to establish my career there. When you do get a job, you can typically count on it for a long while. Things have been changing there some too in the "unstable" direction, but only SOME. However, I have never seen there the uprooting madness I see in the US.

My parents are still not over the shock that we had to pack up an entire household and move in the blink of an eye for a job that could easily disappear just like the first one did. My father keeps asking me: but can they lay him off in this new job? I respond: yes. He is left speechless. Then he asks: then what?
I answer: you move again. The system expects you to. Then my father mumbles something about the system and where we should ideally shove it and invites us home.
Not a bad idea - but yes, you are right, we will have to figure out the job part. It will not have to pay a lot as mortgage is not an issue there.

[carpevacationum]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you thinking that here in the U.S. you need to pack up and move at the drop of a hat to a job that you could also lose at the drop of a hat because that is how the system is.

I've lived here in Massachusetts for almost 30 years. During that time we've had jobs and lost jobs. But we chose to stay and figure out a way to make it work. And most other people here in New England and around the country are doing the same thing.

You are free to decide not to take the job and relocate. Not that this decision would be the right one or easy one. But...you are not forced to do anything.

You also have the choice to decide to "downsize" your lifestyle considerably and find other employment. Yes the economy stinks now, but there are always opportunities. Problem is most people feel they have no choice and are living a lifestyle simply beyond their means.

There is always the option of moving into a smaller home, cut out your cable bills, don't use credit cards, don't take fancy vacations, etc.. (I am speaking about people in general here).

Like I said, I live in MA which most people consider a HCOLA. That being said, we have made the choice to never move for a job and have kept our living expenses low enough that even if my husband was to lose his job, we would survive here. I truly believe that if there is a will there is a way.

I urge you to consider trying to find a way to move back to Europe if that is what you truly want. We only get one chance at life and it is way too short to not be happy about the life you are living. That may require you re-thinking your standard of living or trying to find other means of employment. But like I said...if there is a will, there is a way.

Good luck to you!

[carpevacationum]

Forgot to mention that I also noted that you said you already have a house paid off in Europe. Wouldn't that make it even easier for you to transition "home" because you wouldn't need to make as much?

[syracusa]

Forgot to mention that I also noted that you said you already have a house paid off in Europe. Wouldn't that make it even easier for you to transition "home" because you wouldn't need to make as much?

None of us has any job prospects there right now. While a roof paid off over your head is great, you still need money for other things.
My husband hopes to eventually turn his career into an online arrangement, but he needs to work a few years at this job first.

[syracusa]

We are a family of 4 (including one adult child and one small child) living in a 2 BR. Our family's quality of life is not "completely destroyed."

I admire you for making do with 4 people into a 2BR apartment.
However, I work from home so I need an office-like space one way or the other. We also have family visit for longer periods of time - so 2BR for a family of 4 (often +) is simply not an option for us.