How would you consider this situation in the Boston area

[DayByDay]

I admire you for making do with 4 people into a 2BR apartment.
However, I work from home so I need an office-like space one way or the other. We also have family visit for longer periods of time - so 2BR for a family of 4 (often +) is simply not an option for us.

Actually, I work from home also. I have a nice office set-up in the corner of the dining area. For your guests, you can buy a sofa bed or have them stay at a nearby hotel.

[syracusa]

Actually, I work from home also. I have a nice office set-up in the corner of the dining area. For your guests, you can buy a sofa bed or have them stay at a nearby hotel.

Ask my mom and dad to stay at a nearby hotel for 2-3 months?
Not really. I'd rather live "dangerously" than do that.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Actually it's a lot of money for my DH's tuition. A lot. We're talking $25k/year after taxes. And without kids we're paying taxes up the wazoo.

And we live in the 15 miles of the city. We have high heating bills and balanced budget billing for heat at $250/month. And electric $250/month.

And previously MA had state run car insurance. We were paying $1200/year for liability only.

Syracusa, so judgmental. We have no credit card debt, no car loans, and $25k in student loans. And yes we are struggling. Sorry it's hard to believe but our mortgage, taxes, and tuition is a lot. We drive two beaters and we aren't getting a new car for the new baby. Instead we just paid to save our dog instead of new car.

We had a lot of other bills crop up in home repairs EVERY year we've lived here, at about $6k/year. And we do go home to visit both internationally and across the country at least 1x/year. So yes if we cut that, we could live a lot more luxuriously.

I admit we save a lot so that's part of the struggle. But we refuse to adjust our lifestyle down to not save. To us that was a compromise of moving here. We would make do with less or else.

I PERSONALLY cannot wait to move away and live somewhere cheaper. I know our quality of life will drastically improve.

In Boston, average newborn care is $2200/month. Daycare is $1800/month. Outside the city? Say 20-30 miles it's still infant care is $1800-2k/month. After 1 year? Outside the city is $1500-1800/month. I know Boston daycare because I've priced out places recently as in right now! These are ridiculous prices, but most of our friends are paying it because they live in the city. Within walking distance to public transit, within the 95 ring to give you an idea of "city" living.

The areas a lot of people are naming, I would consider "living" in MA, but not in Boston. Boston definitely you'll be paying a lot more.

If your husband is working redding, live out there! Save a lot of money. Honestly? Who needs the city when you have kids?

I'm too tired to go out anymore and top it off with our sick dog? We have curtailed going out big time. I'm not saying we didn't before, but our lifestyle I think has changed already (personally).

[syracusa]

Actually it's a lot of money for my DH's tuition. A lot. We're talking $25k/year after taxes. And without kids we're paying taxes up the wazoo.

And we live in the 15 miles of the city. We have high heating bills and balanced budget billing for heat at $250/month. And electric $250/month.

And previously MA had state run car insurance. We were paying $1200/year for liability only.

Syracusa, so judgmental. We have no credit card debt, no car loans, and $25k in student loans. And yes we are struggling. Sorry it's hard to believe but our mortgage, taxes, and tuition is a lot. We drive two beaters and we aren't getting a new car for the new baby. Instead we just paid to save our dog instead of new car.

We had a lot of other bills crop up in home repairs EVERY year we've lived here, at about $6k/year. And we do go home to visit both internationally and across the country at least 1x/year. So yes if we cut that, we could live a lot more luxuriously.

I admit we save a lot so that's part of the struggle. But we refuse to adjust our lifestyle down to not save. To us that was a compromise of moving here. We would make do with less or else.

I PERSONALLY cannot wait to move away and live somewhere cheaper. I know our quality of life will drastically improve.

In Boston, average newborn care is $2200/month. Daycare is $1800/month. Outside the city? Say 20-30 miles it's still infant care is $1800-2k/month. After 1 year? Outside the city is $1500-1800/month. I know Boston daycare because I've priced out places recently as in right now! These are ridiculous prices, but most of our friends are paying it because they live in the city. Within walking distance to public transit, within the 95 ring to give you an idea of "city" living.

The areas a lot of people are naming, I would consider "living" in MA, but not in Boston. Boston definitely you'll be paying a lot more.

If your husband is working redding, live out there! Save a lot of money. Honestly? Who needs the city when you have kids?

I'm too tired to go out anymore and top it off with our sick dog? We have curtailed going out big time. I'm not saying we didn't before, but our lifestyle I think has changed already (personally).

I understand. Maybe I didn't realize how much student loans/tuition can weigh as I've never had any. Husband had 6000$ ib student loans at some point but I pushed for paying that off a while ago.
You also have the pet - I am truly sorry to hear about the poor dog's bad health.

Your mention of 6000$ in home repairs yearly scared the living lights out of me. This is exactly why I will only agree with buying new construction, if we ever have to buy in MA.

We will certainly live outside of Boston, I NEVER considered the city itself.

Good luck with the baby! Where would you like to move, ideally?

[syracusa]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you thinking that here in the U.S. you need to pack up and move at the drop of a hat to a job that you could also lose at the drop of a hat because that is how the system is.

I've lived here in Massachusetts for almost 30 years. During that time we've had jobs and lost jobs. But we chose to stay and figure out a way to make it work.

Carpevacationum,

Have you ever considered that living in Boston allowed you to make such a choice in the first place? Losing a job in Boston may be an entirely different thing than losing a job in another part of the country, with much fewer opportunities in a given industry.

My husband is convinced that if he loses this new job, it would be way easier to find another one in the Boston area than it would have been to find something in Atlanta. There hasn't been any new opening in the Atlanta area for what he does - in years. According to him, his specialization is virtually extinct in Atlanta. What he does for a living tends to be concentrated in areas like New England, NY or California.

Do keep in mind that New England is the least mobile part of the United States, with many people being born there and staying put for their entire life. In this respect, I think New England is closer to the European model.

[syracusa]

Practically speaking, does everyone here agree that it would be FOOLISH for us to pay a 2200$/month rent given the info I posted in the beginning?

I mentioned to my husband the view that one of the posters here expressed (that we should look for much cheaper housing), and he just about lost it.

Anything under 2000 we were able to find for rent (very few options at this time of the year, btw), would be either unacceptably crammed or in a not-good school district or an unbearable commute to Reading.

I was just wondering how many would vote "foolish" anyway.

My husband believes we would be perfectly fine paying 2200 a month in rent and that 1800 a month left over at the end of the month as disposable income should be good enough.


Thanks a bunch.

[carpevacationum]

Syrcusa - I'm not trying to argue with you, but you seemed to have already made up your mind about how you have no choice but to move. I'm still sticking to the belief that we all have choices.

No...I have never considered that because we live in MA it may be easier to find work. The reason I have never considered that is because over the years we have lost and gained jobs and are willing to do whatever we have to do to stay here. That means if we can't find a job in a certain field, we look in another. That means if I had to waitress or work at McDonald's, we would. In other words...it's our choice to make it happen and work.

You don't "need" a 4 bedroom house. You want one. Fair enough. But keep in mind how people lived 20-30 years ago. Most people had small homes with a couple kids sharing rooms. And somehow we all survived.

Same thing is true for you whether you see it or not. If you want to move back to Europe, make it happen. Stop talking yourself into the belief that you simply can't. Yes you can. You may have to open yourself up to other lines of employment and a different way of life. But you can. You are the one stopping you from doing it...no one else is.

If you want to stay in Atlanta figure out how to do it. If that means your husband takes a lesser paying job in another field, so be it. At least you still have your job. Lower your monthly expenses and make it happen and don't say it can't be done. There are millions of people all over this country out of work making things work. Is it easy? No. But can it be done? Yes.

[LuxLiving]

My husband worked at the same place for 42 years - and we've always lived within 18 miles of where we started out married life together 27 years ago. I disagree that popping about is 'THE' American model.

My sister has lived in her home for 36 years. She's worked in her industry 33 years.

My brother while not the greatest stable worker as in he works a few years and then doesn't a few years, STILL lives within 5 miles of where we were born & raised. He's 60 this year.

My Dad lives in the home he built in 1969, which is right next door to the house we lived in before that. He's been in the same county his entire life, except when his parents went to California during the dust bowl years for about 3 years.

My Mom has moved a bunch of times and switched jobs a lot of times.

I'd say Mom is the exception not the norm in my family. And, I'd think you'd find similar if you dig around in many American families.

I think the job situation as you find it now in America with people losing jobs at the drop of a hat is also not the norm. We are experiencing a MAJOR blip.

My husband, one of the sweetest, serenest and most content people I know grew up in a probably 900-950 sq. foot house with 3 small bedrooms and 7 people. IMHO, unless one is physically handicapped, lots of space is a want, not a need.

Attitude goes a long way to making things palatable.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Like2Plan]

I cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like if we didn't have this stable refuge abroad and were doomed to sink in the American system, along with most other Americans who have no other choice.

In the meantime though, we will have to deal with the Boston area for a few years as we are not yet financially ready to return home. We don't like it but it is what it is.

syracusa,
This seems contradictory to me. If your stable refuge abroad was really a refuge it would also provide you with a stable source of income. Boston is providing you with an economic opportunity which your refuge does not.

I think you are going into this move with your eyes wide open. It looks like you have given it careful consideration. It is always difficult to estimate the costs in advance, but it seems to me that you have made some reasonable assumptions. What other option do you really have at this point?

You will find lots of different attitudes about moving here in the US. It is not something that goes with nationality. I think it is a combination of mindset and conditioning. My roots come from generations of farmers. My Dad made a decision to move away to seek out economic opportunity because there wasn't enough farm land to support more than one family in his generation. My cousins would not think of leaving the midwest. I on the other hand have made lots of voluntary moves (for promotions). I have stayed put for the last 23+ years, though I do think DH and I will move one more time when we find the ideal place to retire (we have been looking for it for over 25 years ).

Look, you know what kind of life style you want. You should pursue it (that's the American way ). It really stinks that you don't have the option to stay put where you are. Hopefully you will be able to bolster your position in Boston and make your retreat to your hearts desire economically possible as soon as possible.

[reallyprettyhappy]

I have stayed put for the last 23+ years, though I do think DH and I will move one more time when we find the ideal place to retire (we have been looking for it for over 25 years

Have you ever been to visit Spokane, Washington? If you don't mind snow in the winter, or if you have a little vacation place in AZ to run away to for a couple months a year, it seems to be the ideal place to retire. We just moved here and have been astounded by the number of retirees that we encounter here. It's just a slow-paced, beautiful place to live, pretty cheap cost of living, infinite outdoor activities to keep you busy. Just a really nice place to live. But don't tell anyone here that I told. They think it's the best-kept secret in the country.

[Like2Plan]

Have you ever been to visit Spokane, Washington? If you don't mind snow in the winter, or if you have a little vacation place in AZ to run away to for a couple months a year, it seems to be the ideal place to retire. We just moved here and have been astounded by the number of retirees that we encounter here. It's just a slow-paced, beautiful place to live, pretty cheap cost of living, infinite outdoor activities to keep you busy. Just a really nice place to live. But don't tell anyone here that I told. They think it's the best-kept secret in the country.

Yup, I have visited a few times. (I went to college in Ellensburg WA )
I do like that part of the country.

[syracusa]

But don't tell anyone here that I told. They think it's the best-kept secret in the country.

Funny. Just like one of my colleagues, who got into a foreclosure McMansion on the smaller side, mediocre-to-poor built, 30-35 miles or so away from Atlanta. She keeps saying how Atlanta (meaning sprawl) is the best-kept secret in real estate in the country.
Except that everyone in MA and their brother seems to know that Atlanta offers McMansions for "5 bucks and a smile", but not one would want to come down here and get them.

[MonkeyMama]

"When expressing concern, I have been given all sorts of opinion regarding our situation, ranging anywhere from "90,000-100,000 in the Boston area will be rough" to "you are a spoilt creature, 90,000 does not mean "struggling" anywhere".

I came here to read the whole situation after replying in your poll.

Um, reading more details worries me a bit, but overall, I think the idea to rent and try it out is not terrible. I am not sure I would move to a HCOLA for the long run, by choice. It strikes me as okay as a short-term solution. I don't think you are committing to anything, except possibly quitting your job. Even then, seems like a door is still open.

In response to your words above, I would rather earn $50k in a moderate cost area than $100k in a high cost area. I have been in both situations. $100k is not struggling by any means, of course. But it can only afford an extremely modest lifestyle (thinking food and shelter) in places like Boston. I am from San Francisco. We chose to move somewhere where only one of us had to work, and we can afford TONS more luxury on half the income. & it's not even a particularly low-cost area, that we live in now. You can only really consider the opinion of people who have lived in a high-cost area. I have tons of friends in low-cost areas who can't conceive that $100k doesn't stretch very far in an expensive area.

(At my last job we recruited tons of out-of-towners with our "high wages." They never lasted very long - they always moved back quoting, "I knew it was expensive here - but I didn't realize it was THAT expensive." Thus is life in places like Boston).

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Family, not many people want to move away from family.

An it isn't just the student loans, but also the tuition payments for us that makes things difficult. We are paying an average of $2k/month after taxes to a"afford" my DH's tuition. That's more like $3k gross.

New construtcion in the arae can only be found quite a bit away from Boston. I think that renting outsiede the 495 can be done for a house for $2k/month. Realized that in the city 2 bedrooms run around $2k/month on the cheap side.

My old roomie pays $800/month to live in the city in a 1 bedroom out of 3 basement unit. That mean there area pipes in his room and apartment. Yuck. but it's cheaper than comparable places.

I don't have kids,but I can see why it would be WORTH paying a premium for a better school districts.

I think renting is better in case you don't like the area.

I should add I have bbeen born, raised, and lived only in HCOLA. So I am only dreaming of a lower cola, but i know that if we do move to a lcola we would have a higher quality of life. My sister lives outside of atlanta in a house my parents have said is truly amazing. They also own a second home.

[syracusa]

In response to your words above, I would rather earn $50k in a moderate cost area than $100k in a high cost area. I have been in both situations. $100k is not struggling by any means, of course. But it can only afford an extremely modest lifestyle (thinking food and shelter) in places like Boston.

My husband used to be a financial planner and he did the budgets in both situations. After all is said and done, we would have MUCH LESS money left over staying in the Atlanta area on 50,000 (my salary here) than going to the larger Boston area (NOT BOSTON!) on 110,000.

The 50,000 a year in Atlanta would also mean moving to an area where schools are far from stellar (and "far from stellar" in Georgia means BAD, in the grand scheme of things).
In MA there seem to be many options for decent school districts even if you're not in an "IT" place like Lexington or Newton.
In GA, there is very sharp socio-economic segregation and make no mistake about it, if you want good schools, you pay through the wazoo.
In Atlanta we would still have to have both of us work.

Sure, if you mean LCOL as in a place like Jacksonville, AL (where we are at this very moment, living with my mother-in-law, as we transition to Boston) - sure. Here, it would only take one of us working. It would also take no more than 3-4 months until I committed suicide.

You may ask, "if husband was a financial planner, why do you need our opinions?"
I simply wanted to gain some perspective, above and beyond his.

He says moving to Boston area is hands down preferable to staying in Atlanta on my 50,000 with no hope in sight for him to continue his career.