What non-traditional personal advice have you received that turned out to be helpful?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I have mixed feelings about "love what you do". It's something that is said and repeated to young people. Specifically, my dad used to tell me to pick work that I love, don't end up like him, working a stressful job just for the money if your heart really isn't there. My father did well, despite doing something he didn't love. I've witnessed a lot of peers and a lot of young people since then basically failing to find work they love, and it can become a barrier and makes people feel like they haven't found their purpose, or that they've failed the mission. I'm of the mindset that most work actually sucks, it's work that needs to be done, not because it's fun or enjoyable. Finding passion is either there (I want to be a doctor, or a race car driver, or an animator!), or, for most of us, it's not, or specific passion around a work, job, or career is really hard to determine. We need work to support our other goals in life, and we pursue what we love to do in our hobbies and time outside of work.

We have a kiddo/ young adult in our family who is at a major crossroads. I've tried to explain the parallel universe to "love what you do", which is "be excellent" at what you do. And instead of focusing on a specific passion, focus on what kinds of work make the best use of one's talents. The simplest examples are things like if you're really outgoing and love to be around people and love talking, maybe selling a product, or leading projects, being a foreman, could be a compatible career. Or, if a person is really introvert and doesn't like to constantly interact with people, maybe a career in computer systems or manufacturing, designing process, or robotics, could be a good fit. It's all with the goal of being able to get out of bed, work at a job and feel like you're contributing your best self, and being proud of the talents you sell -- whether you work for yourself / own a business, work for a company / someone else, or freelance, contract.

This also fits with what was said above about completing a degree. If one has the time/opportunity to get a degree early, do it. It really doesn't matter what degree, and it need not be expensive. There's a false choice that people will tell you about (If you don't know what to study, go into a trade, or go into a trade because they believe getting a degree is worthless). It's not. The choice need not be a black-or-white decision, or a life sentence, any path that is chosen. The advice is to not limit opportunity, and don't become a slave to a job where you can't find excellence in your work (even if the job isn't your life passion) because of debt. I sure as heck hope the kiddo I'm thinking of finds her way out of the indecision and hopelessness she is in.

Okay let me rephrase it. DH's boss basically meant if you don't love your research quit. It's too hard, too long a road, and too much investment to waste your time doing something you hate. Maybe you don't LOVE it, but if you despise it, then you'll never get out of bed. Most people seem to find something they love about their jobs. They find something they can talk about that brings happiness or joy. But when they really hate what they do it shows. It really shows when you just punch the clock and hate talking to people, hate your coworkers, and hate staring at a screen. Even if you are good at it, the lack of joy often times shows. Usually it's in your unhappiness coming from within and that makes others not want to be around you. Misery doesn't love company and most people when you just complain about getting to work, working, and nothing positive can feel it. At least every job i've worked the people who are miserable it really shows.

But doing something because you think it'll make you money, is a "stable" job, or your parents want you do it I think is recipe for disaster. And I really think picking a career others think you should do is where it all starts. And you can't tell me it doesn't happen. We were chatting with a college counselor to interview and she told my DK1 "be grateful your parents are pushing you to explore. most parents hire me to push their kids into the career field they pick for them." And probably why so many are miserable and fail.

[ua_guy]

Love what you do. You'll always make money if you love it because you'll work harder. DH's mentor told him that and told every grad student he had that. He said if you do what you love you'll be so good at it you'll always make a living. It's when you don't really love it, but tolerate it, then it'll show. He then said if you don't love it, drop out of your phd because it's stupid hard that wasting your time and money on it is ridiculous. He was right and we were stupid.

That being said I now tell my kids all the time you have to go to college. Get a 4 year degree to check the box. Anyone who says you don't need hasn't talked to someone whose 40+ unemployed and can't get another job because they have experience and no degree now. We have 3 friends and all could never get another job in their old fields or haven't. And you haven't talked to a recruiter. We're good friends with 3 different recruiters. They admit they only look at people without degrees when the resume/linkedin application comes in by a referral. Otherwise it gets filtered out by the algorithm. When you have 2000 applicants and want to winnow it down to 100 and then start reading it's easy to click "4 year degree". Then skills, then etc. Just saying it doesn't mean much but it matters a lot in. AI is going to make it more filtered.

And so we told our kids just get something. And to others? You don't have to spend a fortune getting the degree. Go to CC and then cheap in state and live at home. But just get the degree. One of my aunts never finished and it did hold her back.

I have mixed feelings about "love what you do". It's something that is said and repeated to young people. Specifically, my dad used to tell me to pick work that I love, don't end up like him, working a stressful job just for the money if your heart really isn't there. My father did well, despite doing something he didn't love. I've witnessed a lot of peers and a lot of young people since then basically failing to find work they love, and it can become a barrier and makes people feel like they haven't found their purpose, or that they've failed the mission. I'm of the mindset that most work actually sucks, it's work that needs to be done, not because it's fun or enjoyable. Finding passion is either there (I want to be a doctor, or a race car driver, or an animator!), or, for most of us, it's not, or specific passion around a work, job, or career is really hard to determine. We need work to support our other goals in life, and we pursue what we love to do in our hobbies and time outside of work.

We have a kiddo/ young adult in our family who is at a major crossroads. I've tried to explain the parallel universe to "love what you do", which is "be excellent" at what you do. And instead of focusing on a specific passion, focus on what kinds of work make the best use of one's talents. The simplest examples are things like if you're really outgoing and love to be around people and love talking, maybe selling a product, or leading projects, being a foreman, could be a compatible career. Or, if a person is really introvert and doesn't like to constantly interact with people, maybe a career in computer systems or manufacturing, designing process, or robotics, could be a good fit. It's all with the goal of being able to get out of bed, work at a job and feel like you're contributing your best self, and being proud of the talents you sell -- whether you work for yourself / own a business, work for a company / someone else, or freelance, contract.

This also fits with what was said above about completing a degree. If one has the time/opportunity to get a degree early, do it. It really doesn't matter what degree, and it need not be expensive. There's a false choice that people will tell you about (If you don't know what to study, go into a trade, or go into a trade because they believe getting a degree is worthless). It's not. The choice need not be a black-or-white decision, or a life sentence, any path that is chosen. The advice is to not limit opportunity, and don't become a slave to a job where you can't find excellence in your work (even if the job isn't your life passion) because of debt. I sure as heck hope the kiddo I'm thinking of finds her way out of the indecision and hopelessness she is in.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Love what you do. You'll always make money if you love it because you'll work harder. DH's mentor told him that and told every grad student he had that. He said if you do what you love you'll be so good at it you'll always make a living. It's when you don't really love it, but tolerate it, then it'll show. He then said if you don't love it, drop out of your phd because it's stupid hard that wasting your time and money on it is ridiculous. He was right and we were stupid.

That being said I now tell my kids all the time you have to go to college. Get a 4 year degree to check the box. Anyone who says you don't need hasn't talked to someone whose 40+ unemployed and can't get another job because they have experience and no degree now. We have 3 friends and all could never get another job in their old fields or haven't. And you haven't talked to a recruiter. We're good friends with 3 different recruiters. They admit they only look at people without degrees when the resume/linkedin application comes in by a referral. Otherwise it gets filtered out by the algorithm. When you have 2000 applicants and want to winnow it down to 100 and then start reading it's easy to click "4 year degree". Then skills, then etc. Just saying it doesn't mean much but it matters a lot in. AI is going to make it more filtered.

And so we told our kids just get something. And to others? You don't have to spend a fortune getting the degree. Go to CC and then cheap in state and live at home. But just get the degree. One of my aunts never finished and it did hold her back.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

My husband who went the Naval Academy and did 10 years in the Marines would agree with your dad on this. Not only the personal cost but (for him) came at a high financial cost versus if he had started is current career right out of college.

Why would you say it came with financial costs? I am curious since I see most who stick it out for 20 years, thinking Nord at Early Retirement say the military makes it super easy to retire early. Retire wtih 50% of your income for the rest of your life. And if you lived frugally it's enough.

[cypher1]

It wasn't so much advice but more of a re-assurance from my Mom who was one of the few in my life that agreed with my decision of dropping out of college at age 20 (only 1.5yrs in), to focus on tech full-time instead. At that time I did not see the point of getting into more college debt when I was so unsure of my major nor had the drive to continue education. There was definitely some tension between my Dad and I for some years afterwards.

It only took me another 18yrs to finally go back and complete my BS without going into debt, for personal goals unrelated to my current field. But as my nieces and nephews are starting to look at colleges/majors, I tell them college does not have to be the next phase after HS graduation and encourage them to travel outside the U.S. or gain real work experience. My siblings and some friends are not too thrilled about that opinion, even though most of them are my age or older and still paying off their student loans.

[disneysteve]

DS...if you were to do it all over again, where, if anywhere, would you have done something differently based on what you know now?

Well I doubt any of us would make the exact same decisions in life if we knew then what we knew now.

Specifically about our house? I don't think we made a bad decision. Certainly not financially speaking. Buying a house that was well within our means afforded us so much more flexibility with our money. You have to realize that when we bought the house, I had 100K in student loans, my wife still had a small student loan and a car loan. On paper we could have "afforded" to spend more but it would have been super tight and that's not how we wanted to live.

Less than a year after buying the house, my wife was able to leave a bad job and focus on starting a family. Less than 6 years after buying, I was able to leave a bad job spur of the moment and take a few months to decompress and find a much better fit rather than being forced to take the first thing that came along. Those things were largely only possible because we didn't have a huge mortgage payment to support.

We still live in that house 31 years later so I think we did okay.

All of that said, I totally agree with you about risk. Low risk = low reward. In our case, stretching to buy a more costly house just isn't where we chose to take the risk.

[ua_guy]

Betting that your income will remain steady, uninterrupted, and consistently rising is definitely a risk. It's very easy to lose that bet. Your job shuts down. A global pandemic occurs. You get sick/injured and can't work. You get divorced and lose your spouse's income.

I didn't get this advice from anyone else but we definitely didn't follow the typical advice when we bought our house. The rule of thumb was that you could spend 3-3.5x income. We agreed that was way too high so we bought a house that was only about 1.6x income. Even though I was newly in practice and was quite confident that my income would rise considerably, I didn't spend money I didn't yet have. As a result, our mortgage was super affordable, even more so once my income increased. By the time we paid off the house (early) I was making 3 times what I made when we bought it. We totally could have afforded a more expensive house but by not stretching, it allowed us to pay off loans faster, pay off the house faster, and build our portfolio larger.

The "traditional" advice is undoubtedly solid. Don't stretch, buy only what you can afford. Like Jenn_jenn said, the non-traditional advice must be strategic. This doesn't apply to people who can't be disciplined in their other spending and saving. And it should be for a house which is positioned for future value or use, and which will grow in value over time. An example of future use is, if you're planning to have a family, keep that in mind when buying a place. It may save you a lot of money / an additional move in the future. Or if the home has something very undesirable about it but fits your budget, consider a different house if it means being budget-flexible. Maybe it's on a really busy/noisy street, or the neighborhood isn't what you are planning on growing into...things you cannot change but will always limit its future value.

I think smart people who are being strategic are well-advised to be a little non-traditional when it comes to GOOD real estate.

The other part is to remove morality from the equation. Businesses borrow money all the time, and it doesn't always work out. That's both the risk and cost of doing business, but it's still highly advised for businesses to take calculated risks when attempting to grow. When someone suddenly can't pay for a home, it's viewed as personal failure. Sometimes it's just a series of unfortunate events, but that doesn't mean it's not possible to emerge and pursue success again. Most people are going to find another job and are lucky enough to have support networks, and in relationships, both people typically work, reducing the liability if one person loses a job or has trouble. Sometimes people have to take risks to gain a little, and I think it's OK to do that with the best of intentions.

DS...if you were to do it all over again, where, if anywhere, would you have done something differently based on what you know now?

[disneysteve]

Agree with you 100%! I gave this some more thought and I think it also depends on how you manage the rest of your finances. If you’re someone who stretches your spending in other areas, it won’t work. It’s a calculated risk dependent upon your income rising and also having financial discipline elsewhere.

Betting that your income will remain steady, uninterrupted, and consistently rising is definitely a risk. It's very easy to lose that bet. Your job shuts down. A global pandemic occurs. You get sick/injured and can't work. You get divorced and lose your spouse's income.

I didn't get this advice from anyone else but we definitely didn't follow the typical advice when we bought our house. The rule of thumb was that you could spend 3-3.5x income. We agreed that was way too high so we bought a house that was only about 1.6x income. Even though I was newly in practice and was quite confident that my income would rise considerably, I didn't spend money I didn't yet have. As a result, our mortgage was super affordable, even more so once my income increased. By the time we paid off the house (early) I was making 3 times what I made when we bought it. We totally could have afforded a more expensive house but by not stretching, it allowed us to pay off loans faster, pay off the house faster, and build our portfolio larger.

[jenn_jenn]

The advice to stretch on a mortgage is a calculated risk. Hard working people can generally bet on a steady and growing income if they continue to grow their skills. That's very different from amassing credit card debt from buying junk on Amazon.

Agree with you 100%! I gave this some more thought and I think it also depends on how you manage the rest of your finances. If you’re someone who stretches your spending in other areas, it won’t work. It’s a calculated risk dependent upon your income rising and also having financial discipline elsewhere.

[jenn_jenn]

I mean ... Pretty much all of the sound financial advice is atypical anymore.
.

Hmm, I guess I have a little bit of a different perspective. I think most traditional or standard financial advice isn’t atypical, it’s just that normally people don’t follow it and that is why it is “normal to be broke”.

I think for most people it is pretty traditional advice to limit debt where possible! Although taking it to an extreme like don’t take on debt ever, as in don’t buy a house until you can buy it out right, would be non-traditional.

[jenn_jenn]

The other piece of advice...somewhat controversial... he told me not to join the military if I was ever considering it. Said I didn't need the discipline, didn't need it to pay for education. Obviously, he said because I was an adult I was free to join if I really wanted to, but he, as someone who had served in the military, steered me away. Said other people want to fight for those causes right now, you don't have to, and for that we show gratitude and thank them for their service. And so I didn't. Thank you, if you did.

My husband who went the Naval Academy and did 10 years in the Marines would agree with your dad on this. Not only the personal cost but (for him) came at a high financial cost versus if he had started is current career right out of college.

[ua_guy]

The advice to stretch on a mortgage is a calculated risk. Hard working people can generally bet on a steady and growing income if they continue to grow their skills. That's very different from amassing credit card debt from buying junk on Amazon.

[disneysteve]

Pretty much all of the sound financial advice is atypical

Exactly! Dave Ramsey often says, "Normal is broke". By choosing not to be broke, we are all abnormal.

[kork13]

I mean ... Pretty much all of the sound financial advice is atypical anymore.

Case in point, all of the advice about debt. As with myrdale, I was taught to avoid debt whenever possible, and when unavoidable, you borrow the smallest amount required & pay it off as quickly as you can. But that's a loony mindset if you ask most people.

The other main advice I was always taught was to save first, no less than 10%, and live on the rest.

[myrdale]

Shoes and shirts are things to grow into. Mortgages? I fall more into the camp of buy less than you can afford, particularly starting off.

I don't have any "non-traditinoal" advice that comes to mind that I've been given.

My non-traditional advice when it comes to money is:

Educate yourself on money. Books, pod cast, radio.
Talk about it with others. Not necessarily personal salary, but in general.
Run away from debt, not towards it.
Look 5, 10, 50 years down the road. Have plans, even if they are finger painted.
Aim to be self sufficient, both now and in retirement.