snow shoveling a grip and question

[LivingAlmostLarge]

My in-laws live in canada. They live where it is cold and snows a lot. But they are the world's biggest cheapskates. I don't say that lightly but honestly. Anyway my MIL says they haven't seen us in 2 years and want to visit but they can't come in the winter because they don't know anyone to shovel their snow. I suggested they hire a snow shoveling service not a bad idea because they are 70 and 71 years old. I said it will derisk slipping or breaking a bone or getting hurt. But where they live it's $140/month for a 6 month snow shoveling contract. And of course you are betting there will be snow obviously.

So 1 year my MIL hired people and they came out 6 times for the entire season. It wasn't terrible. But she felt ripped off. So she said they cannot visit in the winter (christmas time) because it might snow and they can't leave the house (they have gotten fined before for not shoveling and their mail not delivered so they don't like to do it). She just told me that I might think it's cheap to pay $140/month for snow shoveling but to her it's expensive.

My response is it is deleveraging risk of breaking a hip, falling and needing arm surgery again (this happed like 5 years ago), etc. I told her it's the cost of living in a house and as you get older there is less you can do because it is harder physically.

I have lived but in my 30s in a place that snowed. I did not grow up nor do I have experience with aging in these types of climates. I just thought honestly people retired and if you live in a house you pay someone when you can afford it to shovel your snow. I mean it was hard in my 30s i can't imagine at 70 going out there and breaking my back shoveling the driveway and cars.

I mean I get on my mom too about not doing stupid stuff that can injure her back. Trying to move heavy stuff. Just hire someone. UGH. Is this normal? Do people in cold places usually shovel until they die? What happens if they can't shovel? Hire i assume?

[ua_guy]

We're going through this with DH's father.

DH's father just did 15 years of this with his parents, now both deceased. They got too old, and refused to move from their huge rural property--I don't blame them, but, what they did also wasn't very fair. DH's dad used to manage snow at their place AND his place, and his knees are to a point where he can barely get out there and do his own anymore. DH's grandpa would try to come out and help, he could still operate the tractor for a while but couldn't manually throw snow with a shovel. And they have some very long pathways, lots of stairs, and one heck of a long driveway. On the other hand, DH's father stayed very active for the 15 years he took care of their place, and that is a good thing.

But same thing with winter travel - DH's father won't travel because he doesn't want to hire someone to manage the snow around his place while he's gone. Says it's expensive and they won't do it right, causes more problems than its worth. I can't fault him for having his "old man" pride, but also, he doesn't seem to see the impossible corner he's backed himself into. Stubbornness runs in the family. Being a shut-in during the winter hasn't done him much good.

We're also trying to talk to him about having his knees replaced. He doesn't want to do that either. We're headed over to see him in a few weeks, and DH is planning to have a very "come to Jesus" conversation with him about moving closer to town, maybe closer to us, and making an ultimatum about hiring out services, or he needs to get after having his knees replaced. Something has to change, he HAS to start preparing for old age. DH/we can't take care of him from here, and we're all he has left! We'd like for him to be able to visit for the holidays now that he has no more family over there. DH and I have privately discussed having an ADU built for him on our property.

When we lived in Minnesota, there were a few older couples in the neighborhood. They absolutely had services, people who were out there after every storm, shoveling, salting. There were also some good kids in the neighborhood who would do it for cheap.

Old people

[disneysteve]

Is this normal? Do people in cold places usually shovel until they die? What happens if they can't shovel? Hire i assume?

Yes, shovel until you die is quite normal. Lots and lots of seniors do it every year unfortunately.

Hiring is challenging. Last year I tried to find someone but never did. I'll try again this year. My wife really wants me to stop doing it myself and I'm only 57. My cardiologist friend says men over 50 really shouldn't ever shovel snow. It's a leading cause of heart attacks.

It's pretty uncommon to find older folks who pay someone else to do it for them around here at least.

[scfr]

Start making plans for them to visit in the spring.
Or hire a shoveling service for them as a gift.

I'm telling ya LAL, the brain does not get more flexible and willing to accept change as it gets older. I've learned so much helping my mom these past few years. If I want her to try something new, I just give it to her. Most of the time I'm right and she loves it and when she brags about how smart she was to try such-and-such I offer affirmation. Sometimes I'm wrong and she hates it and we move on.

Or sometimes I just plant a seed. She may reject my idea, but later when she reads about it in AARP magazine or hears about it on PBS News Hour she suddenly decides it's a fantastic idea.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Is your more fundamental concern that you want them to visit in winter, or that you want them to stop clearing snow?

My DH is close to 70 and he is still quite capable of shoveling snow, though I do tell him to be mindful of taking smaller shovelfuls and pausing for mini-rests even when he does not feel the need. His main hindrance to snow shoveling is asthma, including cold induced asthma. So, truthfully I do most of the shoveling (I'm six years younger). I always have, in part because I enjoy it. I observe the same cautions of smaller shovelfuls and frequent rests that I request my husband to.

I think many 70 & 71 year olds should still be able to shovel if they do it carefully. On the other hand, health changes can come on pretty quickly at that age and there are probably a lot who really should not shovel snow, especially deep snow! I think that, besides heart health, balance and flexibility become issues when walking in snow & ice--very important.

I suggest, too, that there could be other reasons why your parents don't want to visit in winter. Perhaps the snow is just a handy excuse. Maybe they don't like to drive in winter or fly in planes that they fear might ice up in flight. Who knows.

[myrdale]

Winters in South Alabama are fairly mild. Before my father died, he had a whole shed of firewood. Now 9 years later, my mother has exhausted it (I am really surprised it lasted this long). But she also has a propane tank which can be used to heat rooms individually.

I don't have the time to drive down there and maintain the firewood stock. I've suggested she find someone local and buy a load of wood from them. $200 pickem up truck full of wood would last a year or two easy. She is dead set against the idea.

I wouldn't worry about your parents breaking a hip or having a heart attack while shoveling the snow. You can break a hip getting out of the shower, or have a stroke on the toilet. Maybe they should look at selling the house and moving to an apartment, or better yet to a state without snow. I know that will never fly, so they choose to shovel snow.

There is always the possibility of finding a neighborhood kid and paying them to do it. Maybe half price of the professionals?

[kork13]

I lived in Alaska for nearly 4 years & loved it. But the snow in winter was outrageous at times, 6-8" in a day (for days on end) was not uncommon. Many people do hire a service, or a neighbor kid, but most handle it themselves in one fashion or another.

As a middle step to avoid them injuring themselves, buy them a snowblower. It was a godsend after we spent our first winter with only a shovel & bought one from a neighbor moving to the Carolinas. Plug-in start + self-propelled wheels mean their only exertion is to walk behind the thing.

As for the winter travel... All they need is a neighborhood kid or two that they have have more or less "on retainer." If they have a trip planned, they just call the kid to let him know, then if it snows, he can clear the sidewalks/driveway. They can settle up when they return. Shouldn't cost more than $30-$40 per snowstorm (for an average house). It doesn't need to be perfect either, just enough to keep the mailman happy.

[bjl584]

I live in a rural area and have a long driveway. Snow here is hit or miss, but we can get some big storms at times. Last winter was one of the snowiest we've had in the last few years.

I would not want to shovel my driveway.
That's why I have a backhoe.

Someone else suggested, but maybe your in-laws can find a neighborhood kid to do their shoveling.

[rennigade]

Just do what my in laws do when they snowbird for 2 months. Just let the snow sit. In PA, temps fluctuate enough that you really do not have to shovel/plow, unless you have sidewalks and the city requires those to be cleared off. We get warm enough days where the snow will melt, especially on driveways.

If you live somewhere where temps remain low, pay the piper.

[james.hendrickson]

Just do what my in laws do when they snowbird for 2 months. Just let the snow sit. In PA, temps fluctuate enough that you really do not have to shovel/plow, unless you have sidewalks and the city requires those to be cleared off. We get warm enough days where the snow will melt, especially on driveways.

If you live somewhere where temps remain low, pay the piper.

Totally. If the snow doesn't present a safety hazard, why engage in the labor to clean it up? It will just melt eventually.

[Butterscotch]

If you want them to come see you in the winter just hire the snow removers for them.

[disneysteve]

If the snow doesn't present a safety hazard, why engage in the labor to clean it up? It will just melt eventually.

That probably works in rural areas but not in the city/suburbs. We have to clean our sidewalks. Of course we have to clear our driveway so we can get in and out. And once the plows come by, we need to clear the mound of packed snow they create at the end of our driveway.

[james.hendrickson]

Well, if someone is out of shape, the should warm up or stretch before they go and shovel the snow away.

[Jluke]

Two things going on here.

age related
location related

as you get older certain tasks just can’t be done and you need to hire help. e.g. lawn care, landscaping, snow shoveling.

Where you live comes with additional costs. Maybe in Florida most people pay for pool services. In the snowy locations people pay for snow clearing services.

letting snow just melt can cause some damage if the water gets under hard surfaces and freezes again and melts again.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

If neighbors are physically close enough to see your older parents out shoveling snow, would they be the sorts to help out? Maybe you could find a way to contact them and deliberately ask for their help, for pay or otherwise. If the neighbors are paying for snow clearance, they might be able to arrange a couple of clearances while your parents are out of town. A pro clearing one address might be happy enough to do the adjacent address at the same time.