Throwing in the towel on saving.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

How much equity do you have? What about buying something smaller a 3/2 or 3/1.5 and putting everything down on it? That will protect the equity.

FLA is giving you the female side of a divorce gone difficult. I believe men do get screwed more but women don't always come out smelling like roses.

[Scanner]

Oh, I agree. I have seen men stalk women endlessly in divorce and dedicate themselves to making their lives miserable.

How much equity do you have? What about buying something smaller a 3/2 or 3/1.5 and putting everything down on it? That will protect the equity.

Hard to say in this market. Atlantic City area is now the US's "Detroit" with casino closings and home foreclosures.

Maybe 80K. Maybe. Remember, this is Detroit as I said.

The home equity dividing wasn't really the problem. She got half my business and I got half the home equity.

[Scanner]

FLA:

Yeah, who knows with people, right? I have no idea what the problem would be visitation with you since it sounds like he would be doing most of the parenting/custody on his end and not have overnights. So it can't be about money. . .it sounds like it's about spite or something. Our judges are appointed here, not sure the process. I can't complain too much about the judges themselves, other than what I said - expect to pay for a "non-ruling."

I apologize to all if this sounded misogynistic. . .it really wasn't meant to be.

I'll just end with this.

My "first" after I divorced was a lovely nurse practitioner. We remain great friends to this day and she is with a real nice divorced fellow now (a great couple) and I watch her dog all the time, well anyway, I'll always remember what she said,

(a lament of a woman dating divorced men)

"Why is it when women get divorced, all of them seem to end up "okay." They are in their home, seeing their kids, etc, and I see all the men end up in a beat-up pick-up truck living in a rusty trailer."

(or maybe it's a rusty pick-up and beat-up trailer, lol)

This was from a woman mind you. I can't speak to the validity of her lament, just what she lamented.

I would just like my liabilities "controlled", that's all I am asking. But I guess that's a pipe dream. It's like having 2 IRS's now.

Could you live with 2 IRS's? How about saving with 2 IRS's?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

What are IRS?

[phantom]

What are IRS?

Internal Revenue Services - He's saying that child support is like having to pay a second income tax.

[FLA]

FLA:

Yeah, who knows with people, right? I have no idea what the problem would be visitation with you since it sounds like he would be doing most of the parenting/custody on his end and not have overnights. So it can't be about money. . .it sounds like it's about spite or something. Our judges are appointed here, not sure the process. I can't complain too much about the judges themselves, other than what I said - expect to pay for a "non-ruling."

I apologize to all if this sounded misogynistic. . .it really wasn't meant to be.

I would just like my liabilities "controlled", that's all I am asking. But I guess that's a pipe dream. It's like having 2 IRS's now.

Could you live with 2 IRS's? How about saving with 2 IRS's?

my ex is just a jerk who enjoys making me unhappy. He did three horrible things and any woman would've divorced him in a heartbeat. He played dirty and twisted the story to the kids to hurt me, he sues me every year to try to hurt me. Well, it feels like he won on the kid front because I refused to say anything but, "sometimes grown ups just don't get along and it's better for them not to live together. You have 2 parents who love you very much," that kind of thing. Meanwhile, they were hearing from him terrible things about me, like it's my fault he has nothing and went bankrupt. When we divorced, the playing field was even, having refused alimony, on paper our financial situations looked pretty much equal once I got child support to bring my finances up and bring his down to closer to my level. He chose to go nutso and end up bankrupt, while I took my share of our house and got a townhouse. But the kids truly believe I ruined his life. He is the worst co-parent ever. And now, if DS asks why I destroyed his dad, he is old enough to hear the sanitized version of the truth. They never ask, I won't ever say. Enough about that.

You did not sound misogynistic, you sound sick of being screwed. I actually think the courts are more likely to equalize things when both parents work, it's easier to make the playing field equal. Men of SAHMs have it tough. Try to remember, this time of paying her stacks of money will end. You already have some close to grown kids. She may be in the cat bird seat now, but that is temporary (unless your alimony period is crazy long), eventually she will lose alimony and then child support. And then what is going to do? Work? Even I don't believe she will ever work.

But it will no longer be your problem. She'll need a sugar daddy but it no longer will be you. You'll have your finances back. I thought the days of having to deal with my ex would never end, but DS is 18 and DD is 16, 5 more years and I never have to negotiate anything with him again. The kids swear he is moving to Texas when they graduate, I tell them do not kid me on this, I am counting on it.

I think we both are serving prison sentences, lol

I agree on the IRS thing, I never understood that about child support being figured pre-tax.

[Scanner]

Yes, the IRS analogy is just let you know of the psychological/financial impact of child support.

You have the IRS 1: Uncle Sam. The more you make, the more he takes. Ascending and descending tax brackets. You have IRS 2: Child Support System. The more you make, the more they take to rightfully share with your kids.

Your financial health is honestly trivial, secondary, and non-considered.

Primary goal is to protect the taxpayer and if need be, fund the college system.

Then the taxpayer scratches their heads as to why they are paying for all these deadbeat dads in jail. (luckily I am not anywhere close to there).

I don't know. . .maybe I can stuff away a silver coin here and there. Have a few silver pences when I retire and get that emancipation proclamation.

[scfr]

I can see splitting assets that the two of you built together during the course of your marriage, and providing support for your children until they are able to take care of themselves, but that she got part of your business seems very unfair as that represents your future earnings.

Anyway ... to answer your question, NO, I can't see throwing in the towel entirely on savings. I can definitely see putting them on hold and resuming them when the children are grown (in the meantime doing what needs to be done to not accumulate new debt).

Good luck.

[FLA]

maybe it's because he is a chiropractor? In NY there is this stupid clause applied to doctors only, that the wife gets 1/2 everything, I believe, for life. Plus, I heard, alimony for life

totally unfair, many jobs pay much better than an MD. And a wife should have part of the business if she worked while he was in school and setting up practice, if she was the major breadwinner and did the bulk of parenting. Should be that way in any divorce. But half the business for life is a tad much. And this applies to only docs, not CEOs, not hedge fund managers, etc.

NY is so unfair, it's disgusting. If I became a doc, no matter how good it was with DH in the beginning, how much I loved himI would refuse to marry just because of this scenario.

[Scanner]

No, she just got half of what the business was valuated at at the time of filing. I think it was kind of high. Equity in service based businesses are really hard to transfer because goodwill, while worth something, is hard to appraise. But you have to agree to something or then go for an expensive appraisal.

A lot of divorce is a matter of being "elastic" during negotiations and balancing legal costs with what the other side is asking. I joke that if someone would write me a check today for what the business they said was worth (or even 50% less), I would hand them keys today and Monday morning the reception room could be introduced to a new doc, lol.

That said, I think it's fair for a spouse to get half the business. It IS jointly built together so yes, no resentment. You COULD sell at divorce I guess and just start over.

Again, I think I hit the analogy well. . .it's 2 IRS's.

YOu have the IRS that takes your earnings. This country dings self-employed people hard. Then with normal people, you then budget accordingly. But with divorced people, you have then another legal system where uncertainty can kind of loom, basically recalcluation to recalculation (and threats thereof, which yes, DO get to me and rattle my cage). . .college expenses and whether they decide to go or not, daycare, etc. All legitimate expenses but uncertain what a Judge would ding you for.

But. . .well, you know, the IRS takes 1/3rd of your earning as a round number. . .and then take 20-30% after that. . .no, no room for saving, unless you are earning really, REALLY well. (and I am not)

Throwing in the towel but thanks.

Their mom is taking the kids on a Disney cruise over Halloween. My kids will be basking in luxury, but filing this away I imagine as someday they approach the subject of marriage.

One of my patients coined a term so well I'll never forget and I have told my oldest son. He said, I tell my sons,

"The f'in you are going to get, son. . .is not worth the f'in you are going to get." LOL. Great one sentence summary on sex. No seriously, I definitely try not to insert cynicism into my parenting of the kids on relationshps and marriage and such. That's a no win situation. But. . .yet, I feel THAT one liner IS good perspective.

Look. . .it is what it is. But I am not going to be frustrated with unobtainable goals either. Health and surviving are the goals, not wealth any longer. Or else. . .Ulcers and insane asylums are the next stop with that, lol.

[Scanner]

RE: Alimony. I will say courts are slowly evolving on alimony, esp. alimony for life.

Alimony is fraught with so much abuse it's not funny. Mainly 2 points

A. Women will often shack up with a guy after and for all intents and purposes are living like a married couple while the ex-husband (or ex-wife) subsidizes the new guys lifestyle. Pretty good deal. Women getting alimony RARELY ask for a ring; I am honestly not sure about men. They get the emotional satisfaction of converting the ex-marriage into an endless annuity and they'll be darned if they are going to give that up.

Bird in hand is worth more than 2 in bush, ya know? Why invest in this new guy when I got a check every month?

Judges are SLOWLY starting to see through this and have been declaring shacking up arrangements as marriage for the purpose of alimony. Slowly.

B. The idea of "spousal support" is SLOWLY becoming passe. Why should a spouse need "supported" the rest of her or his life? They are not a child. So now, it's "restitution alimony" where the other spouse is compensated so they can retrain, go back to school, finish raising kids (if a SAHM or SAHD) and move on. It's a one time lump sum meant as a compensation for lost time.

It's a really bad, BAD idea for courts/society to create an underclass eternally indebted to another party. (with adults, not children, children need support) It means endless court motions, refiling, cross motions, recalculations. What if the paying ex becomes disabled? I've seen that.

People aren't endless oil wells. People are not annuities.

of course, lawyers and judges benefit from the theatrics. In fact, they'll admit they live for it over drinks at a bar. I suppose it IS interesting. 0 But overall, the best for all parties is to reach a settlement and emancipate parties.

Settlement should mean it's well, settled.

I am lucky to have escaped that as she was an administrator at a hospital. Honestly, more than the $$$ amounts it is just the threat of constant legal action thinking, "here we go again. . .another $3000 to the attorney."

[LivingAlmostLarge]

As the kids get older (you have one in college and another soon right?) Would it make sense to start downsizing from the 4 bd house?

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Your alimony is without an endpoint? In this day and age, I do not know anyone who even got one month's alimony. I really thought it was mostly a thing of the past.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

You aren't paying alimony only child support I thought? And until the youngest who is 7 is 18? After 18 it's a split college cost?