Stupid Question

[BlackDiamond]

You said people on unemployment (like me) shouldn't get pregnant, and are a disgrace. Your brushstrokes are a bit too broad, don't you think?

People with no income should not get pregnant. No one is going to say that they should.

[cptacek]

Being unemployed is not permanent. Being on welfare is not (or should not be) permanent. Being underwater on your house, in credit card debt, etc., all of those things can be turned around, and most of the time pretty quickly. A lot of times when people post on this site, when you take a good look at their financial picture, a few changes and sacrifices will turn their entire lives around in like 3 years. Perhaps it would be better for them to wait those 3 years to get on a good financial footing. But to advocate aborting a child because someone hasn't completely turned their situation around yet is frankly abhorrant to me.

[BlackDiamond]

Maybe it's because I live in a nasty, ghetto urban area? I rarely see people turning their situations around.

We will just have to disagree then. I see absolutely no excuse for bringing a child into the world when one is living off other people's tax money. If they turn their life around - hey - try again then. If you can't have kids when then comes, I don't know… adopt. There are tons of kids around the world who I am sure would love to be adopted and if more people would consider adoption, there would probably be less abortion and less starving, impoverished kids.

It goes beyond just money too. As someone else said, if you are having a kid when you have no income or a ton of debt you probably are not responsible enough to raise a child properly.

[coach2wealth]

Pets are not the issue.

Set a goal. Develop a plan. Execute the plan.

If you do these steps correctly, priorities fall into place quickly. I've never met a person with goals that let anything get in their way of accomplishing them, including kids. I'm not saying they drop the kids. They put the plan together with the kids in mind. Everyone else is just dreaming or wishful thinking.

[karenkc]

I have an acquaintance who works 3 jobs and has a ton of pets. I can't even count how many he has. He also has kids. I don't understand why he works that much to support pets?? I'm sure the (conservative estimate) $200/month they spend on all these pets could be spent for something more constructive.

How is that any of your business if your acquaintance is covering his or her expenses? (As long as this person is actually able to stay on top of caring for all these creatures.)

[elessar78]

How is that any of your business if your acquaintance is covering his or her expenses? (As long as this person is actually able to stay on top of caring for all these creatures.)

You're right, it's none of my business. But we are on a message board so I thought I'd just add it to the discussion about pets and money. I think it's dumb for him to work so much and not be able to spend more time with his human children, just so he can support the animals. We know him well and know the business he's in, so we have a pretty good picture of their lifestyle and income.

What he wants to do with his time/his money is his business. I can guarantee you they have no emergency fund and most likely not much, if any, in terms of retirement. In the overall financial picture, I think it's irresponsible. In that situation maybe one or two pets is reasonable but 15 or so different types of animals?? To me it doesn't matter if your passion is pets, coins, expensive cars—just keep it within reason.

[karenkc]

You're right, it's none of my business. But we are on a message board so I thought I'd just add it to the discussion about pets and money. I think it's dumb for him to work so much and not be able to spend more time with his human children, just so he can support the animals. We know him well and know the business he's in, so we have a pretty good picture of their lifestyle and income.

I think you're missing the point that the pets are probably the way he is spending money on his human children. I imagine they're a part of the kid's lives. Sidepoint: We don't even know the family situation to judge it like you are regarding how much time is spent with the children. If they're reaching a certain age individuation needs space to occur. Also, the parents that are around their children a lot of the time aren't necessarily having a positive influence on the children. I often see the opposite. Your post is so full of assumptions. This particular conversation within this larger thread topic is tedious and, honestly, it's apparent your ideas are not well thought-out.

[disneysteve]

People with no income should not get pregnant. No one is going to say that they should.

I think you are making much too broad a generalization here or not being specific enough. What if husband works a good job and wife is unemployed? Should she not get pregnant even though they can live comfortably on one income? My wife quit her job about 1 month before she got pregnant, which we were trying to do. When my daughter was about 4, I quit my job (my wife was still a stay at home mom) so for a few months, neither of us was working. Had that occurred at the point at which we were trying to get pregnant, we wouldn't have stopped trying because I knew my unemployment was only a temporary situation. I wasn't going to be unemployed forever and we had plenty of savings to hold us over until I got back to work. So unemployment by itself shouldn't be a determining factor. I think you need to look at the big picture.

[cicy33]

I am astounded that there are actually people who are seemingly suggesting that people with no income should be having babies just because they want to have them "before it's too late". For real. I am just speechless. I guess I just will never "get" this "I WANT IT! I WANT IT NOW!!!" mentality.

BlackDiamond I don't think anyone is saying to anyone or themselves for that matter, ooh lets have a baby, we don't have a job but what the heck! I think it is more of a situation that rarely do people expect to be unemployed for long. Also most people are convinced that they will turn things around. Usually people do. I think the concern that is being put back to you is that you are saying if for some reason you do get pregnant while unemployed or you are in debt you should get rid of your kid. That is, to me at least, a harsh, cold thing to say. A child is not a book, you don't just get rid of it. You know I have a friend who is in her late 30's. She has never wanted kids, never felt the urge, nothing about money just not interested. about 6 years ago she got pregnant on accident. Yes, she used protection but as mentioned before, whether you believe it or not, things happen. She was a little nervous about the situation and not sure how she felt but gradually became okay and a little excited. Unfortunately her boyfriend got drunk one night and beat the crap out of her so bad she lost her baby. She was so upset because she had not realized how much she really did want her baby. She still has such sadness. Telling people to get rid of their kid is like saying rip out your heart. life without my daughter would have been so bad. All I can say is try to walk a mile before making such statements. Also, I have seen situations where a baby unexpectedly arrived onto the scene and caused the parents to get their act together. I hope that you never find yourself in that situation of a child into your life and then lose your job or something. Or if you already have a child to have something so unexpected happen and you lose it all and have to fight to get it all back or even go on aid temp for help.

[BlackDiamond]

I think you are making much too broad a generalization here or not being specific enough. What if husband works a good job and wife is unemployed? Should she not get pregnant even though they can live comfortably on one income? My wife quit her job about 1 month before she got pregnant, which we were trying to do. When my daughter was about 4, I quit my job (my wife was still a stay at home mom) so for a few months, neither of us was working. Had that occurred at the point at which we were trying to get pregnant, we wouldn't have stopped trying because I knew my unemployment was only a temporary situation. I wasn't going to be unemployed forever and we had plenty of savings to hold us over until I got back to work. So unemployment by itself shouldn't be a determining factor. I think you need to look at the big picture.

Although I disagree with that kind of lifestyle for my own life (I would never be comfortable living off someone else's income) technically in that situation, your wife HAS income because she is taking your money to live off of. Thus, she has income.

In your situation you planned, you had enough savings to live off of. While not income, per se, you were not a burden on society.

I am referring to individuals who have no income other than taking money from the government. Which is what I see around me on a daily basis.

[BlackDiamond]

"I hope that you never find yourself in that situation of a child into your life and then lose your job or something. "

As I have said many times, I do not consider abortion wrong. If for some reason, my tubes being tied and my BC pills BOTH failed (I still take BC pills for another reason but they are BC pills nonetheless), I would be in the abortion clinic in an instant and my fiance would be thrilled that that was what I was doing. Neither one of us like or want kids. There would not even be a discussion. We'd go to the clinic as soon as we found out and then our life would go on as per usual. So I will never find myself in this situation.

I really think part of the reason people are not seeing it my way is because they are for whatever reason anti-abortion, a stance I will never wrap my mind around. And I guess they will never wrap their mind around my stance either.

[cicy33]

"I hope that you never find yourself in that situation of a child into your life and then lose your job or something. "

As I have said many times, I do not consider abortion wrong. If for some reason, my tubes being tied and my BC pills BOTH failed (I still take BC pills for another reason but they are BC pills nonetheless), I would be in the abortion clinic in an instant and my fiance would be thrilled that that was what I was doing. Neither one of us like or want kids. There would not even be a discussion. We'd go to the clinic as soon as we found out and then our life would go on as per usual. So I will never find myself in this situation.

I really think part of the reason people are not seeing it my way is because they are for whatever reason anti-abortion, a stance I will never wrap my mind around. And I guess they will never wrap their mind around my stance either.

Ahhh, actually now it makes more sense. You don't want or like kids so it is easy for you to make such statements. just try to understand for people that both love and want children that it is not cut and dried like that. I also see nothing wrong with abortion if that is what the person wants. I believe a person's body is their own. I just also believe a person's choices are their own and unexpected circumstances or sucky time in life should not dictate such serious actions. It is possible to be in a bad situation and be able to turn their life around and keep their kids doing it. I do understand what you are saying about people on welfare that just keep having more kids to stay on the welfare but I don't think it is as ongoing as it used to be. Possibly more so in the bigger cities because there are so many more people.

[kenyant]

kids are very expensive things to own(they are more expensive than pets or houses or cars) and the only time that i will have them is when i get very very financially secure. so that i can enjoy raise them without having to think about money all the time- speaking strictly from what i have seen

[PrincessPerky]

If you don't want nor even like kids, I can't see how you can understand the love one has for the life growing inside.

This little one is kicking and already making his (her?) personality known, I have no intentions of killing him (her) just because we are temporarily out of work.

[cicy33]

kids are very expensive things to own(they are more expensive than pets or houses or cars) and the only time that i will have them is when i get very very financially secure. so that i can enjoy raise them without having to think about money all the time- speaking strictly from what i have seen

Kids are as expensive as you make them. believe this or not they don't need all those toys that the other kids have. the most expensive part the first two years is diapers and formula. if you breastfeed that takes care of formula and if you don't that cost goes away after a year. You could literally feed your child off your plate after about 6 months for super cheap. of course this varies from mom to mom but I believe table food is just fine for babies as long as it is mild and chopped or made very fine. Once they get a little older the costs do begin but again, it doesn't have to be crazy. I bought yard sale clothes for my daughter her whole life. She did get new clothes too of course but just like for me we bought good quality used clothes for cheap. I mean think about it for the ones who are squeamish about this. when you go to a store and try on a pair of jeans, do you really think you are the first one to do that???? They are already used before you even buy them. The only thing I won't buy used is undergarments. that is ick. you said that this is from what you have seen. remember that there are people who think their child needs the latest greatest thing just because Bobby down the street has it. No they don't. for some reason people think kids are so pricey. I raised my daughter on my own making not much above min wage and she did just fine. even managed to buy prom dresses and other things.