Stupid Question

[terces]

ok, let me try

1) I would NEVER get rid of a pet I already have. To me pets are alive beings that deserve their lives respected. I currently don't have any pets but I miss my dog and my ferret who have passed away and I cherish my memories with them. I might get rid of a plant perhaps, but not a pet. Well, maybe a goldfish is ok?

Kudos to you Radiance. I volunteer with a rescue that helps dogs that have been dumped by their owners. Sadly not all find new homes and perish at the pound. Anyone who thinks about getting a pet needs to consider the costs and responsibility involved. They are not just inanimate objects that can be tossed aside.

As far as when the right time to have children depends on our individual perceptions of what we feel is a good environment for them. We didn't have a house but we had stable jobs and were doin okay financially. What was more important to us was the timing because dh was in the navy and his ability to be involved as a parent was most important. There was some tight times but we've come so far now. We had the desire to succeed and do well... Sadly I think many of those in the welfare system get comfortable where they are.

[cicy33]

I do understand a lot of where you come from I really do. but you never know exactly what you will need. my daughter wasn't in cheerleading or anything like that so for me life was much cheaper than say for another mom with a daughter in cheerleading. so I would say the "proper" amount of security will vary per family. I just also think in the general sense that people can say don't have kids till you can afford them but they fail to account for the fact that things change. For example, one is comfortable, have a nice savings, nice house, bills are paid, all is well. They are ready, right? but what if things change one day and all goes to you know where. as I said before. things happen. this is why I have never believed waiting until one is financially set in life to have kids. It is okay to do so but one can still have kids even if they are not set and do just fine. I am a perfect example.

[BlackDiamond]

Interesting. She is able to save up over $1,000 a month though.

Yes. But where I live, you need more than $1000 a month to rent a 2 bedroom apartment or buy a house and other costs associated with raising a child in a comfortable middle class life. I couldn't even rent a 1BR apt within commute distance to my job with my situation now.

To answer the question about what is the number? To me, there is not a number, but you should have a stable home, 6 months worth of emergency fund and a good start on retirement before you even consider reproducing IMO. This varies greatly from person to person. There is no set $$ amount.

If you need to take public money, you absolutely should not breed.

[cicy33]

Yes. But where I live, you need more than $1000 a month to rent a 2 bedroom apartment or buy a house and other costs associated with raising a child in a comfortable middle class life. I couldn't even rent a 1BR apt within commute distance to my job with my situation now.

To answer the question about what is the number? To me, there is not a number, but you should have a stable home, 6 months worth of emergency fund and a good start on retirement before you even consider reproducing IMO. This varies greatly from person to person. There is no set $$ amount.

If you need to take public money, you absolutely should not breed.

so, two thoughts here. lets say you have all that and "breed" a child. then you lose your job, can't find another and have to go on welfare to feed that child til you find another. do you think they should then give up their child cuz they can no longer afford it on their own? I guess what I am saying here is just because you see someone on welfare with a child does not mean they meant to get there.

second thought. "breed"???? really. we are not animals per se. breeding is something done to reproduce for the sake of reproducing not for the reason of love and nurturing.

[BlackDiamond]

so, two thoughts here. lets say you have all that and "breed" a child. then you lose your job, can't find another and have to go on welfare to feed that child til you find another. do you think they should then give up their child cuz they can no longer afford it on their own? I guess what I am saying here is just because you see someone on welfare with a child does not mean they meant to get there.

second thought. "breed"???? really. we are not animals per se. breeding is something done to reproduce for the sake of reproducing not for the reason of love and nurturing.

Which is what I think a lot of these people do, quite frankly. I don't think they think about it.

If you lose your job after your kid is born, do what you gotta do. BUT if you go and get yourself knocked up while unemployed or on welfare already, you are a disgrace IMO, and have no business reproducing.

[cptacek]

Which is what I think a lot of these people do, quite frankly. I don't think they think about it.

If you lose your job after your kid is born, do what you gotta do. BUT if you go and get yourself knocked up while unemployed or on welfare already, you are a disgrace IMO, and have no business reproducing.

My husband knocked me up while I was on unemployment. But you'll be happy to hear I miscarried a few months later, before I found another job.

twit. Does BlackDiamond describe the state of your heart, or your soul?

[cicy33]

Which is what I think a lot of these people do, quite frankly. I don't think they think about it.

If you lose your job after your kid is born, do what you gotta do. BUT if you go and get yourself knocked up while unemployed or on welfare already, you are a disgrace IMO, and have no business reproducing.

I think one thing that you have not considered or refuse to accept is that some pregnancies are not planned and they happen. Even on birth control. I happen to know a family with two kids out of four that were conceived on birth control. two different types. yet, they love these children and they are doing fine. THis is a family that only planned on two children due to costs. they WERE being responsible and nature chose to act anyway. I don't feel it is right to judge anyone unless you know specifically all the details. I doubt seriously that people who are barely scraping by purposely set out to have a baby. I will admit there are those on aid that do but contrary to common thought it is not the scads that people think there are. there are just a few bad apples that stand out and people latch on to them and preach about them as if they were the majority.

[BlackDiamond]

My husband knocked me up while I was on unemployment. But you'll be happy to hear I miscarried a few months later, before I found another job.

twit. Does BlackDiamond describe the state of your heart, or your soul?

HAHAHAHA. It's the stone in my engagement ring, actually. And my favorite gemstone.

Think what you want about me. I put logic before emotion and I could care less what anyone thinks about that. It seems to not bother my fiance, friends and what little family I have.

I honestly don't care one way or the other what happened in your life. I don't know you from anyone else on the street. It doesn't sound like you were living off my tax money so what you do or don't do has no effect on my life or my well being.

I will say that I think you need to seperate your own circumstances from those of the type of people who are continually abusing the system that we're discussing here and stop letting it cloud your thoughts.

[BlackDiamond]

I think one thing that you have not considered or refuse to accept is that some pregnancies are not planned and they happen. Even on birth control. I happen to know a family with two kids out of four that were conceived on birth control. two different types. yet, they love these children and they are doing fine. THis is a family that only planned on two children due to costs. they WERE being responsible and nature chose to act anyway. I don't feel it is right to judge anyone unless you know specifically all the details. I doubt seriously that people who are barely scraping by purposely set out to have a baby. I will admit there are those on aid that do but contrary to common thought it is not the scads that people think there are. there are just a few bad apples that stand out and people latch on to them and preach about them as if they were the majority.

And if you are near homeless, living off my tax money and that happens, you need to grow a backbone, put your emotion aside and visit a clinic. Nothing will EVER change my mind about that.

[karenkc]

I would never let money influence me to get rid of a pet. Some things are more important than money, such as living creatures that one has made a commitment to take care of after adoption. (What's so terrible is people are only saving hundreds per year by giving up a pet. I would certainly cut back in another area first. Of course if a person becomes absolutely destitute then it's compassionate to find a home that could properly care for the pet instead of trying to hold onto it.)

I completely agree that people whom cannot afford children shouldn't have them. I don't have kids and I don't have the money it would require to have them.

As far as unplanned pregnancies for people who are pro-life and don't have enough income, there are many people who want to adopt.

[BlackDiamond]

I would never let money influence me to get rid of a pet. Some things are more important than money, such as living creatures that one has made a commitment to take care of after adoption. (What's so terrible is people are only saving hundreds per year by giving up a pet. I would certainly cut back in another area first. Of course if a person becomes absolutely destitute then it's compassionate to find a home that could properly care for the pet instead of trying to hold onto it.)

I completely agree that people whom cannot afford children shouldn't have them. I don't have kids and I don't have the money it would require to have them.

As far as unplanned pregnancies for people who are pro-life and don't have enough income, there are many people who want to adopt.

This is so true, and a sadly underused option. I know at least 3 couples who have adopted and I have one friend who is pro-life and who gave up her 4th child for adoption. He is 4 years old now and my friend misses him but KNOWS she did the right thing and does not regret it. He has opportunities he never would have had if he'd stayed with her.

[elessar78]

I have an acquaintance who works 3 jobs and has a ton of pets. I can't even count how many he has. He also has kids. I don't understand why he works that much to support pets?? I'm sure the (conservative estimate) $200/month they spend on all these pets could be spent for something more constructive.

[cptacek]

...if you go and get yourself knocked up while unemployed or on welfare already, you are a disgrace IMO, and have no business reproducing.

You said people on unemployment (like me) shouldn't get pregnant, and are a disgrace. Your brushstrokes are a bit too broad, don't you think?

[cicy33]

I have an acquaintance who works 3 jobs and has a ton of pets. I can't even count how many he has. He also has kids. I don't understand why he works that much to support pets?? I'm sure the (conservative estimate) $200/month they spend on all these pets could be spent for something more constructive.

Perhaps your acquaintance thinks this is constructive. Remember, just because you don't think what your friends or whatever are doing is smart or the right thing is your opinion. Maybe they think that what you do is not the right thing. I don't personally have a pet right now but that is more out of selfishness. I have had dogs before and I know the time that it takes to invest in them and I am very busy right now. it is not about money for me it is about not wanting to arrange for doggy sitters, or rushing home to let them out or whatnot. Some people get a lot of return from pets. lots of love. i don't think it is right for anyone to say that is the wrong thing to be investing in just because we don't agree with it. its their choice. as long as their bills are paid and the animals are fed and cared for what is the harm?

[BlackDiamond]

I am astounded that there are actually people who are seemingly suggesting that people with no income should be having babies just because they want to have them "before it's too late". For real. I am just speechless. I guess I just will never "get" this "I WANT IT! I WANT IT NOW!!!" mentality.

As for pets, I personally have no idea why anyone would want like 7 dogs or 15 cats. I would not want to live next door to such a person as the noise and odor would drive me nuts. But one or two as long as they are fed, I agree, who cares. Pets do not require the same amount of care and planning as human babies. Pets do not need college funds and clothing. Pets require vetrinary care but honestly, if you opt not to spend $30K on surgery for your pet, you aren't going to get arrested for neglect.

Trust me, this is coming from someone who did spend thousands of dollars on surgery for a pet once. If I had to do it again, I would have just put the dog down and not gone into debt for years. Not just for monetary reasons either. That puppy suffered in pain for a week between the two surgeries and IMO, it was cruel to subject an animal to that kind of thing. I knew the surgery was to try and help him but he did not know that. He was a dog. He did not understand all the needles and tubes and medications. All he knew was it hurt and the humans were making it hurt more.

When I took a hard look at my finances last year, I decided to give up my pets I had at the time (guinea pigs...more expensive than you'd think) because they were a huge monthly expense and I was working so much that I couldn't properly care for them. I interviewed people and had a friend help interview when I was at work and ended up placing them with a wonderful family where they are thriving. Giving up pets does not always mean condemning them to die. If you need to give up your pet and you love it, you will take the time to find it a good home.