It's so hard to save money when....

[Bluestreak]

I agree that there are abuses but not by a majority.

I think if you did some truly effective research on Gov't and their spending of tax payer dollars, you might change your views. Also you need to see that spending as "your" dollars, as that it what they are. Those who do not feel the effects in significant fashion, don't seem to look at it as their dollars.

[m3racer]

This thread has gotten way off topic IMO. To reiterate I'm talking about fair taxation. Yes, I made a rant earlier that a large portion of taxes can be seen going to waste. Yes, there are great programs that are funded by taxes. No, not everyone that receives government aid is lazy but are in unfortunate circumstances. Yes, there are MANY people that abuse the system. Let's move on.

[Bluestreak]

OK. So what exactly is fair in your eyes in terms of taxation?

[GREENBACK]

Sorry he didn't say huge majority, he wrote "large portion". Is that a big difference? And by not making the distinction he implied that merely being a recipient of social programs makes one irresponsible.





I agree that there are abuses but not by a majority.

You didn't quote him but if you paraphrase you should be more accurate. There are no stats I know of to prove abuse of the system but if you go to the areas that recieve the most gov't assistance in your city at about 2am(not recommended) you will see quite a bit of activity occuring. Many of these individuals are very able bodied people. Most are on assistance or are living with someone that is and unmarried to avoid detection. Many are selling or, trading for drugs, their food stamps or whatever other nice things the gov't has given them. You'll see children out when they should be in bed. You'll see all sorts of things the average person can't imagine because they're at home sleeping and preparing to go to work to further fund these activities.

It might not be the majority but you can bet it's a hell of a chunk. I should say that this is not a black, white or hispanic thing or anything else. This problem(system abuse) happens in a Chicago ghetto as much as in the appalachian mountains.

[Bluestreak]

I say we tax by purchase, not by income. That's as fair as possible. Feasible, not sure, just sounds good. Rates will vary based on the type of purchase.

[m3racer]

I say we tax by purchase, not by income. That's as fair as possible. Feasible, not sure, just sounds good. Rates will vary based on the type of purchase.

I like that idea. It certainly makes sense.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Well at least if you complain m3racer, you are paying taxes. My biggest beef is those not paying taxes and complaining about the taxes in the US.

And I pay around the 40% you do being married without kids. But that's with SS and Medicare.

Take that out and it's definitely less.

[Bluestreak]

Tax by purchase becomes more feasible the more I think about it. It's funny, it will help peeps purchase the things they need, vs what they want. This will cause our country to become more efficient with money. It's the perfect way to improve the efficiency of our society, long term. Can you even fathom the growth and job creation in this country with these style tax changes? You want things to be fair, you got it. We pay based on personal decisions, not government decisions.

[m3racer]

My biggest beef is those not paying taxes and complaining about the taxes in the US.

That's a great point. A fair tax system should not give tax credits (ie. refunds) to those who do not pay taxes. Of course that's what Obama & Congress just passed. For those of you who are not in tune please understand that Obama's tax breaks are very misleading. He states that 95% of Americans will receive a tax break/credit. However, experts say ~40-50% of that group don't pay any federal income tax at all. I'm still scratching my head to understand the logic in giving these people tax refunds. This is the classic example of wealth redistribution.

[red92s]

LOL..too bad you don't realize that I drive an 11 year old car that's cheaper than most of the Hondas that people drive.

I think you underestimate my knowledge and experience with BMW's, particularly of the and E36 and E36/8 variety.

[m3racer]

I don't think there should be a phase out for tax credits based on MAGI. A perfect example would be the the credit for purchasing a home. Where is the logic in discouraging those that HAVE the disposable income to make such a purchase? I know I would take advantage of it if I qualified. Wouldn't you want those who are going to honor the bank note to make a purchase to stimulate the economy?

[m3racer]

I think you underestimate my knowledge and experience with BMW's, particularly of the and E36 and E36/8 variety.

Well my apologies. However, your earlier comment can easily be misconstrued as a person who thinks all BMWs are expensive. Obviously that's not the case.

[GREENBACK]

I don't think we've begun to see what future taxation has in store. Capital gains taxes, income taxes, etc.,etc.. There is going to be an enormous bill to pay from this stimulus and the idiots in charge will discover that you can only print and borrow so much.

The whole thing about only taxing the rich is pretty laughable. When will they decide that 40k a year is "rich". The answer is when they discover that the bloated bill they passed can't possibly be payed for by strong arming people who had the audacity to succeed in life.

I'm for a flat tax but that's just me

[Bluestreak]

I don't think we've begun to see what future taxation has in store.

I'm for a flat tax but that's just me

No doubt we have no clue what is in store for this country. Hopefully it is not painful for the savers on this forum, long term.

I'll take a flat tax also. Business growth, effective job creation, product development, innovation, are all being diminished and de-encouraged (spelling), with the current proposals. It's called proposed socialism by taxation, yet I digress. To think happiness is going to increase is absurd. Happiness will only increase with time and self, not taxes.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I'd take a flat tax as well.

Sorry M3racer, I think the people less well off do need a "Tax cut". But i can't take it when they whine about it and don't pay taxes. Just shut up and appreciate it. If most americans didn't whine about their taxes, I'd be fine. But the majority of americans do.

Problem? Majority don't pay taxes. If you have two kids and make something like under $75k, it's likely you aren't paying any taxes. I think something over $150k even with 2 kids and you are about to get hit by AMT.