It's so hard to save money when....

[m3racer]

Back on topic.....Is there a problem with the fact that 90% of taxes in the US are paid by the top 5% alone?

[maat55]

Back on topic.....Is there a problem with the fact that 90% of taxes in the US are paid by the top 5% alone?

The reason is because the wealthy are the smallest voting group. The lower middle-class and poor are the largest. Government is about votes, who do you thinks will win.

This is why big government will destroy the country, it will use tax the rich to buy votes until it kills the cash cow.

[blankcheck]

What a topic to place my first post (although I've been reading this website for months)...

I guess I'm just naive. Combined my household makes $110K yearly; we have a 2000/month mortgage payment. I have 450/month in student loans. My wife is still going to school online for a post-master's certificate. We still manage to save ~15% of our income, and the last thing on our minds is "taxes are too high." Yet that's all I hear about from my peers. I know that my own salary is going to bump from 57K to over 100K in about 18 months, and all they talk about is how my taxes are going to skyrocket. But I already make the "mistake" of getting a huge refund, and we don't even use it besides building an emergency fund further, so how selfish SHOULD I be about my money? I see it as a compliment that our society recognizes that some people are responsible enough to be the financial engine that drives the machine. I deal with people who abuse the system, and I wouldn't want to live like them.

Look at the bottom line: on a personal level, the consensus is that having a high percentage taken away from you is an injustice. To the majority of the world, you getting so much money (yes, even after taxes) is an even greater injustice. That doesn't make the current system any fairer, but it does make us, the ones who have this "burden," come off as incredibly arrogant. It's hard to get people on your side that way.

If my post is too long to read, here's the summary hypothetical:
Person A pays 15% on 30K.
Person B pays 45% on 200k and complains about it.
Person A thinks Person B is an automatic jerk.

[KTP]

I totally sympathize with the OP. My wife and I make just enough to not benefit from any of the welfa...I mean stimulous payouts but we do not feel rich at all. We live in one of the most expensive parts of the country, have a modest house (we decided to buy one that was 20 miles outside the city just so we would actually be able to afford our mortgage instead of depending on the government to step in when times got hard). Do we get any consideration for where we live or how many hours a week it takes to drive to work because we chose an affordable home? No.

If we lived in a cheap part of the country and made $30k less a year we could live better AND get all of the stimulous payments. Ridiculous.

Just wait until they have to lower the definition of *rich* to include you and see how much you like paying for others.

Fortunately, I have a solution. Save. Save big time. They don't tax assets you already have, only income and gains. Live off your savings and take whatever government handouts you can get. It is time to work the system instead of it working you.

[Snodog]

At least the top tax rate isnt 91% like it was 50-60 years ago. This whole thread reminds me of the saying. "Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that other guy behind the tree."

Something like the "fair tax" is the way to go IMO. I think taxing consumption is a more fair way to tax. Of course this is coming from someone who never buys anything.

[KTP]

Maybe the top tax rate should be 91% or more.

I would feel a LOT better about paying 45+% of my sub 200k income in federal, state, medicare, and SS taxes if I knew that Miley Cyrus, Brittany Spears, Donald Trump, etc, etc, were paying 91+% of their income.

Then we could all be equal.

Actually it would be quite a bit better society if nobody actually got paid and the government just handed out the same amount of food and goods to each person regardless of the work they did. The person mowing the grass, the lady having 8 kids when she already has 6, the guy too stoned to get out of bed to bother working, the engineer spending 12 hours a day to get a project out the door and the doctor who spent 10 years studying should all be equally compensated.

Think how wonderful a world that would be.

[kork13]

Actually it would be quite a bit better society if nobody actually got paid and the government just handed out the same amount of food and goods to each person regardless of the work they did. The person mowing the grass, the lady having 8 kids when she already has 6, the guy too stoned to get out of bed to bother working, the engineer spending 12 hours a day to get a project out the door and the doctor who spent 10 years studying should all be equally compensated.

Think how wonderful a world that would be.

I'm sorry, my sarcasm-detector is busted at the moment... I hope you're not serious. In theory, yes, it would be great. But to implement it causes some major problems. The Soviet Union tried, and its citizens suffered tremendously as a result.

[blankcheck]

I'm sorry, my sarcasm-detector is busted at the moment... I hope you're not serious. In theory, yes, it would be great. But to implement it causes some major problems. The Soviet Union tried, and its citizens suffered tremendously as a result.

So they all started leaving there and coming here...yet I wonder how many of them are mad about how much tax they pay here.

It's all relative; compared to just about any other country, democracy or not, a U.S. resident still has a greater chance of upward mobility than anywhere else. I agree that the current tax system is unfair, but I'm not good at faking indignation when I don't feel it. I guess I'm defective because I didn't cry when my 457 and IRAs dropped by 40% in the stock market either. These things happen, and they may not happen in my favor. KTP made a great point, which is that you do everything in your power to control your destiny.

[KTP]

I'm sorry, my sarcasm-detector is busted at the moment... I hope you're not serious. In theory, yes, it would be great. But to implement it causes some major problems. The Soviet Union tried, and its citizens suffered tremendously as a result.

If you can't see that under Obama, with his stated fact that wealth redistribution is a good thing, is moving this country toward EXACTLY the scenario I described, then more is broken than just your sarcasm detector

What motivation will there be for Joe A to work his butt off if Joe B gets everything free from the government and sits on his butt. This is exactly what national healthcare, loan cramdowns, stimulous checks, etc are doing, slowly but surely.

But hey, who wouldn't vote in the guy that is going to give them a free lunch...

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

M3racer, I'm trying to get some understanding of what your life must be like to earn $250,000+ ( I think that is what you are saying) yet finding it hard to save. First of all, I think you might be exaggerating a bit about the difficulty because you have written in these forums about investments, so I guess you've saved some of your earnings (unless you inherited it or something.)

So what I did was put $251,000 into a cost of living calculator, to compare San Diego, CA to St. Louis, MO. I chose San Diego because it seems to be have a fairly high COL so I'm letting that represent the place in which you might live. I chose St. Louis, because it is where I live and would give me a better feel for what your money might be able to buy, if the calculator is on target.

Cost of Living Comparison, Salary Calculator - CityRating.com

This calculator tells me that a life costing $251,000 in San Diego is equivalent to one costing $210,000 in St. Louis. I wish I knew whether that calculator takes taxes into consideration. You seem to be saying that your high taxes coupled with your high COL is dragging you down. Is that right? I think that few people in my area earning $210,000 would seriously feel beleaguered. Um, I had just read, though I think not at the site I linked, that the average MO income is $28,100. Sometimes we tend to judge our own wealth against the wealth of those around us. Perhaps you live where there are many with much, much more than you. If you lived in a place like I do, I think you might not feel so beleaguered. Heck, you could pay less tax and have a lower cost living if you lived here and earned the COL equivalent pay.

[KTP]

Even if your calculator is correct, that is a HUGE difference of $41,000. Assume both people want to live the same lifestyle, the person in MO can tuck $41k more a year in the bank. He is going to be able to retire MUCH earlier than the West coaster. This is why straight limit caps on stimulous payments and housing credits are unfair. They don't take into account cost of living in different areas.

[m3racer]

JOTA...I don't live a high lifestyle. I wear scrubs to work everyday, drive an 11 year old car fully paid and rent a small 1 bdrm apt. I live a very modest lifestyle. I sure would love to buy a nice house, a nice car, etc, but in reality I know I can't afford it. I don't have a high COL by any means. The only debt I carry is student loan debt. I refuse to carry more debt irresponsibly. I've seen my parents go into bankruptcy because they borrowed too much. Unfortunately too many people fail to take into consideration the full range of possible outcomes when they borrow $$$ for things.

I can't help but think of what I could accomplish if I could retain more of my income. I certainly wouldn't be in serious SL debt.

I just have a fundamental problem with the idea that someone else is entitled to the hard money that I've earned. Some people may not feel that way but I do. I find it very discouraging. So maybe Joe blow might think I'm whining but I'm almost certain that if they were in my shoes they would feel the same. Nothing was given to me on a silver platter. I've been in the position of being dirt poor but I worked my way out of it.

BTW, I do save. I don't have issues with spending habits.

[DebbieL]

No, the person in MO would likely earn less. Those are to basically compare what wage you would need for an equivalent lifestyle in another area. The actual wages in lower cost of living areas are usually lower.

[m3racer]

Person A pays 15% on 30K.
Person B pays 45% on 200k and complains about it.
Person A thinks Person B is an automatic jerk.

On the flip side....Person B may think Person A is an ignorant ingrate.

[KTP]

I guess I just don't understand why if you work hard at something you are not entitled to reap more benefits than others. If I chose to work 2 jobs and 60 hours a week, why can't I keep as much a percentage of my wages as the person who works only one job? Why do I have to get taxed at 30 to 40% while they get taxed at 15%?

Should we extend this *right* for everyone to have the same benefits to other areas?

Should the person who works out 5 times a week, 3 hours a day be forced to marry the overweight couch potato? Seems only fair right?