what is your monthly income?

[M-squared]

Syracusa: I am an administrator at a small liberal arts college in the Northeast (close to a city that sounds like your screen name). It's exactly your "us" versus "them" from professors towards staff and administrators that, quite frankly, turns my stomach. I run an non-academic department. I have a graduate degree and have become fairly highly regarded in my field. And yet, I will forever be an "other" to certain members of the faculty simply because I don't have three little letters (Ph.D.) behind my name. Glad to know it's not just my own particular institution.

By the way, I live in a farm village about 10 miles outside of the town where my college is located. My neighbors have that vacant look in their eyes because they are cows. The farmers are friendly enough, even if they drive tractors and don't have nearly the education that I do. For all I know, their stables and dairy farms make more money than I do. In fact, I once left my library books on the roof of my car and drove off. That afternoon, I found my books in my mailbox. I wondered how they possibly could have gotten there. The gentleman who owns a horse farm (who I happen to like very much.) about half a mile down the street stopped on his morning walk the next day and asked me if I had gotten my books back. I laughed, said thank you and asked him how he knew they were mine. He simply replied that he didn't think any one else on the street would be reading those titles so he assumed they were mine.

[syracusa]

Syracusa: I am an administrator at a small liberal arts college in the Northeast (close to a city that sounds like your screen name). It's exactly your "us" versus "them" from professors towards staff and administrators that, quite frankly, turns my stomach. I run an non-academic department. I have a graduate degree and have become fairly highly regarded in my field. And yet, I will forever be an "other" to certain members of the faculty simply because I don't have three little letters (Ph.D.) behind my name. Glad to know it's not just my own particular institution.

Oh, I know that!! And believe me, I would NEVER claim that academia does not have its major, major, ego-related issues. It is a terrible shame that such things are going on and it is even more surprising that such superficial attitudes (purely based on credentials - as bad as those based on income or flashy life-style are) come from academics who really...REALLY!...should know better. But many don't...and let's face it, your average contemporary academic is no longer the "sage" academic of yesterday. Many are just credential-hungry people, just like the rest of the professional world, and that's about it. It's human nature/ego probably.

Just give me an hour with a person any day - and their undivided attention in a one-on-one conversation. Give me SUBSTANCE and CONTENT. The person's eyes, their ways of talking, what they are saying, how they are saying things...they will give me enough material to work on my "fine discriminations". This is my only criterium for "discriminating" : QUALITY/SUBTANCE. Not income, not degree, not flashy life style.
I have had superb conversations with a poor boy selling newspapers at the subway station. He lives in an almost ghetto/dangerous area...but will I move there simply because some incredibly and naturally intelligent people (albeit non-credentialed, poor, low social status) also live there?

But when you just drive through a neighborhood you have to work within the superficial cues that you have. It is simply hard for me to count on the probability of finding the substance I am looking for among people whose outward appearance seems to indicate the "work/sports/big-screen-TV/fast food" lifestyle only. It would not be realistic for me to believe that most of those look superficial on the outside but are a mountain of substance, intelligence and grace on the inside. Some may.
Many will not - as I will most probably discover when we move.

[syracusa]

By the way, I live in a farm village about 10 miles outside of the town where my college is located. My neighbors have that vacant look in their eyes because they are cows.

Ouch. Yes....these were the words I was looking for: VACANT LOOK.
Thank you. The vacant looks scared me. I wish I was talking about cows, like you do...but I am afraid those were people I saw.

Again, looking forward to bumping into those exceptions to the rule, because let's be fair, I did not get to see EVERYBODY in those subdivisions.

[tripods68]

Thank you for "getting me" though I normally would not expect this kind of solidarity. I am aware that some of my views are not in sync with today's mainstream American culture, not even the mainstream of other contemporary cultures. I admit to having some strong views about certain things that may not be all that popular today or may be perceived as old-fahion, dated or no longer "in"; but at the same time I resent having to always "shut up" and keep low profile just because my views are not some of the most democratic, fashionable, or "in" to date.

I get your point. It's a lot harder to find a neighborhood that "clicks" with you. I tend to hang out with some of my college buddies and coworkers when were not hanging out with DWs friends or relatives or mine. We have basketball league that I occassionally play from time to time on weekends. I've been on this league for almost 10 years developed friendship with all of them along with my kids, DW and their familys on birthdays especially. Now I'm migrating to golf trying to learn it while introduced to me by my cousin. The beauty of living in the US is you can live where ever you want. People moved based on jobs, or be closer to their family. We also factored the crime rate, school districts, distants from parks so our kids can play as well as our friends. The make up of our neighbor reflect a typical subdivision middle class which often transform every 6 months because the current mortgage meltdown.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Thank you for "getting me" though I normally would not expect this kind of solidarity. I am aware that some of my views are not in sync with today's mainstream American culture, not even the mainstream of other contemporary cultures. I admit to having some strong views about certain things that may not be all that popular today or may be perceived as old-fahion, dated or no longer "in"; but at the same time I resent having to always "shut up" and keep low profile just because my views are not some of the most democratic, fashionable, or "in" to date.

However, I have always made a point of avoiding ad hominem attacks, of pointing fingers at specific people and using insulting, in your face expressions. I certainly would never tell a forum member "I don't like you! " simply because what they said is not along the lines of my own values or beliefs.
I would probably debate the issue with the arguments I have at hand but would never just tell someone "I don't like you, you're arrogant, you're rude" based on their views only. My point here boilt down to "I am just not compatible with certain types of people and it would be nice if I could live in a neighborhood with people I could relate to and click with". That was all.

Those who felt they could strongly indentify with the prototype I have
described jumped out of their chairs with a declaration of war. But then again, I am not surprised. I just find it funny how the biggest champions of "diversity", "niceness", "everybody is great just the way they are!", "I've never met a person I did not like" theories become the most agressive, out of control individuals when they hear views lying outside of their popular doctrines.

In the end, I've always wished everyone well, including to those people I do not see myself compatible with vor a variety of reasons. Live and let live is one thing. Being a hypocrite or wasting your time (and theirs!) with people with whom you cannot connect on a meaningful level is another.

I thought you were ignoring my posts and stopping the attacks? Sigh. And yet you cannot stop yourself. No matter what can you? It's a interesting dilemma you find yourself in. But you'll never see the irony of what you write.

Although your home buying thread was laughable as well. I cannot write anything because the tone again was "the same". And I was not the person who commented on your tone either. LOL.

Oh and I am sadden by the fact you are comparing people to cows, when I'm not sure that was the point of the poster M-squared. I am sure you like your "hidden" jibes, but I'm blantantly honest in my words. And why shouldn't I dislike people who call others cows?

Is that a nice thing to say? I shouldn't have called you arrogant and rude in public, probably a PM would have been better. However by calling people cows, you basically confirmed my statement. I am not sure many can get away with that. But heck it's the internet. Calling people cows is a-okay.

[M-squared]

Oh and I am saddened by the fact you are comparing people to cows, when I'm not sure that was the point of the poster M-squared.

Nope it wasn't my intention to compare people to cows. In fact, the actual point of my post was kinda missed by Syracuysa. Maybe you got it, AlmostLivingLarge. No matter, I'm not going to get all that fussed about an internet message board, although the flames are sorta pretty to watch.

[syracusa]

Nope it wasn't my intention to compare people to cows. In fact, the actual point of my post was kinda missed by Syracuysa. Maybe you got it, AlmostLivingLarge. No matter, I'm not going to get all that fussed about an internet message board, although the flames are sorta pretty to watch.

Your point was not at all missed. I am happy for you that you have such great neighbors. It's just that some people here have problems understanding nuance.

[Ima saver]

I just looked at my social security statement. The most I ever made in one year was $8232. Ya'll know what I drive!!

[sweeps]

I just looked at my social security statement. The most I ever made in one year was $8232.

Yes, but $8232 was a lot of money back in the 1800's....

Just kidding!

[LuxLiving]

Well, hello garbage can, I drive a truck and I read extensively.

edited to add:

I own some cows. Called the "cattle of kings". I paid cash for them too, just like my truck!

I don't own a big screen TV though or watch sports. Shoot! ...and to think I was almost a stereotype!!


"Money can't buy friends, but you can get a better class of enemy." ~Spike Milligan

[M-squared]

I own some cows. Called the "cattle of kings"

I rather like my bovine neighbors. And the equine ones. One year there were goats. They were a bit loud, bleating all the time like they did.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

LOL Syracusa, I think you missed all of M-squared post about academia as well. But heck maybe your comprehension of american humor is sadly lacking.

I too have owned goats, cows, and pigs. We had goats in the backyard of our home. And my grandparents owed cows, pigs, chickens, ducks. I guess that might be the reason behind a pickup. Although I always though it was the dogs we had.

As for clicking with people, sometimes it's hard to find people to "click" with. But maybe it would be easier if you don't judge them by appearances. Plus if you gave people a chance maybe they will be more than you expect.

[syracusa]

... We don't belong to the country club or send our kids to private school ...Instead, we bought a modest older home in a more working-class neighborhood.

DisneySteve,

This is something I've been meaning to ask you a while ago but with all the digressions about "nice people" vs. "snobs", I missed it.
You mentioned you have a daughter and that you do not send her to private school. Then I assume you send her to the public school corresponding to the working class area you live in, right?

How do you feel about the education she receives there? Have you been pleased with the school she goes to? I am just curious because the school is actually THE MAIN reason why I would want to live in a neighborhood with people I can relate to - which is those who believe in serious education, reading and traveling-with-a-purpose for their kids (and less so in the parochial sports culture).

I did not get the impression that working class neighborhoods have the kind of schools where kids necessarily have those habits instilled at home (yes, I know, SOME working class people will care about those things a lot...but I am not talking about SOME).
This is why I would ideally not opt for a working class neighborhood if I could.

I was just curious about the school that your daughter goes to. Have you been happy with it?

[disneysteve]

How do you feel about the education she receives there? Have you been pleased with the school she goes to? I am just curious because the school is actually THE MAIN reason why I would want to live in a neighborhood with people I can relate to - which is those who believe in serious education, reading and traveling-with-a-purpose for their kids (and less so in the parochial sports culture).

I did not get the impression that working class neighborhoods have the kind of schools where kids necessarily have those habits instilled at home (yes, I know, SOME working class people will care about those things a lot...but I am not talking about SOME).
This is why I would ideally not opt for a working class neighborhood if I could.

I don't think your judgement of the working class is an accurate one. My neighbor who works for the local utility, for example, has 2 kids. One graduated from Drexel University with an engineering degree. The other graduated last year from Loyola University (not sure what her degree is in) and I know she spent a semester in Australia as part of her program. I'm not sure about my other neighbors, but I think there is plenty of focus on education.

My daughter's schooling has been just fine so far. She's had great teachers and get's some challenging assignments. Some of the work has been too easy, but she happens to be a bright kid who is generally ahead of her class. Overall, I think everything has been just fine and she'll be well prepared for whatever college curriculum she eventually follows. And what happens at home is as important or even more important than what happens in the classroom. She reads constantly, and I'm talking about some serious reading, not just pre-teen fluff stuff.

[LuxLiving]

I suppose I am confused - why are all these kiddos being educated if they are not to use it in some form of work?

Maybe a bit of clarity on what working class means from Syracusa's POV would be helpful?