what is your monthly income?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I disagree about "fitting" into the neighborhood. I guess if it's important that you associate with "academic, intellectual" types then by all means judge everyone you see as bland, mediocre types of people who lack an "education". Gee whiz I'd never talk to you and my DH and I are the educated types.

We'd run so fast, I'd hate to live in your neighborhood. And you just proved the stereotype of judging those by what they make! And it's a wonder why Americans prefer to not discuss what they earn?

If that's the judgement we're getting then we'd rather not say. DH and I have lived in a lot of not so nice neighborhoods. It really is about being kind, open-minded, and generous about where you live.

Obviously education doesn't buy class. Nor does being European. There's no winning the money game. I guess some people will always think they are better than poor, illiterates, and rich, crass, vulgar millionaires.

I have enjoyed everywhere we've lived. We've never been judged but rather everyone has been very nice. I prefer to live somewhere with a strong sense of community, like how DH and I were raised. Where you live on a street and know every neighbor, have pot lucks, halloween, babysitting, etc. Where you know your kids is at the neighbors and not worry. And I've found that it can happen at many different economic levels both richer and poorer.

When we lived in our condo people were awesome. We knew a ton of neighbors by name. We talked at home and in stores. We moved to a townhouse on a street and people came over to greet us. Fabulous. But maybe it helps that we enjoy watching football, baseball, sports, etc. We like to bbq, grill, hike, bike, garden. My DH doesn't read a book to save his life, but I read daily on my commute. Iwe love rock concerts! I guess for educated folk we're sort of middle/lower middle class.

[jIM_Ohio]

I drive a pickup truck and so does my neighbor two houses down (but my truck is bigger than his truck).

I have also read that the most common vehicle driven by millionaires is a pick up truck (not a BMW, Mercedes or Porsche, but a pickup truck).

Stop discriminating against a pickup truck driver.

This is an interesting thread. Making 100k in my town and making 100k just 15 miles north of here is quite different. In some towns if it takes two incomes to make 100k you are not worthy (meaning those 100k families are single income), where as in my community it appears both spouses work to meet that income need.

I prefer to choose my friends based on the beer they drink or the values we share, not based on how much they make, what they drive, or where they live.

[DebbieL]

I agree with LivingAlmostLarge and Jim Ohio. Syracusa just sounds plain snotty to me. I'll bet that most of the people she thinks she would like to associate with would spot her for a snot a mile away and probably want nothing to do with her. Stop judging everybody so harshly and you might make a few friends over here.

[FrugalFish]

I disagree about "fitting" into the neighborhood. I guess if it's important that you associate with "academic, intellectual" types then by all means judge everyone you see as bland, mediocre types of people who lack an "education". Gee whiz I'd never talk to you and my DH and I are the educated types.

Obviously education doesn't buy class. Nor does being European.

I enjoyed your post, LivingAlmostLarge. I've always said that there's a tendency for people to confuse an extensive education with enlightenment.

I'd suspect that the most interesting people in this world are people who don't realize that they are such.

[syracusa]

You must be British born Syracusa just guessing of course...

No, but I lived there for a while. I must have picked up on some of their flaws...I am not denying it.

[m3racer]

Not enough.

[syracusa]

I disagree about "fitting" into the neighborhood. I guess if it's important that you associate with "academic, intellectual" types then by all means judge everyone you see as bland, mediocre types of people who lack an "education". Gee whiz I'd never talk to you and my DH and I are the educated types.

"Only superficial people don't judge by appearances"
Oscar Wild said something along those lines.
I am sorry, Living Large, but you are consistently hostile all over the board and you seem to hunt my posts so that you can snap at them. As I said, I do not judge people based on their incomes.
However, I do reserve the liberty to draw certain conclusions based on my life experience - a person's demeanour, body language, tastes, certain way of carrying themselves, yes and even certain choices people make in terms of cars, decorations, ways to spend leisure, you name it...all these tell a well-rounded story to me when I have not yet had a chance to get to know the in-depth character of said person. Certainly, a drive through a neighnorhood can only allow you so much insight.

I found I was rarely, rarely wrong. I never claimed I am compatible or I would even WANT TO be compatible with ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE. Whoever claims such a thing is either a hypocrite or a painfully superficial folk. I know I would never be compatible with someone whose favorite passtime is watching sports and nothing else; or who would "not read a book to save his life". I recognize such people's right to live their lives as they please...but would I be compatible with them? No. If that makes me a snob - then we agreed on it.
I am sure you would prefer such "snotty" people to never post anything anywhere, but life is not fair, as many of you have stated before.

While I admit it is entirely possible to find "an educated" type in a pick-up truck, my experience has not found this to be the norm. Honestly, I have no intention of getting into a debate with you given your perennial hostility. Again, with all due respect - I certainly would not care to have you as a neighbor either. But that wouldn't make neither you nor I wrong or right. Best to you.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Because you (syracuse) are very rude about Americans. You claim to be "judgement" free and "don't care about how much money people make," yet you harshly and critical write about mediocre people.

Sure you don't have to get along with everyone, I DON'T GET ALONG WITH YOU! You are a snob, hypocrite, self-rigteous, and arrogant. "I found I was rarely wrong..." So no you don't judge people on incomes, just on "demenor, body language, taste, carrying themselves, cars, etc."

So please keep on JUDGING. By the way, my dad's a vascular transplant surgeon. He was on many medical school boards an drives a pickup truck. He also wears clothes with holes and slippers. Guess he's a dumb hick driving a pickup.

My DH's old academic boss is a nobel laureaute. He drives a Honda Civic hatchback. Rarely looks nice and has millions. And he drinks beer and watches sports. Die hard Boston Red Sox fan (born and bred from Boston). Gee, I hate to think that these are atypical academic types. Guess they aren't cultured, refined, and classy. Too bad they donate tons of time and money to helping those less fortunate.

So yes Americans may not want to share what they make. Why should they? Obviously we're judge not just by what we make but what we look like, dress, and act. So what's the point of income? You already made judgements about them, and would knowing they make $250k/year influence that?

Probably. But maybe these people with true values would rather you ignore and judge them as boring and poor and clueless than trying to suck up to them at a university.

By the way Warren Buffet still lives in the same neighborhood he FIRST bought in. Hmmm...Food for thought. Everyone there was poorer and cheaper and average, middle class. Wonder why he likes these mediocrities?

[Gruntina]

I once had a friend tell me that she HAS to work to cover daycare costs. Apparently, it just never occurred to her that if she stayed home she wouldn't need daycare.

For those stuck on two income trap (often in HCOL area) is getting to be quite common.

I understand you would not need to pay for daycare if one did not work.. but again, what about that one's own financial support if not covered by their spouse simply because it was not enough to begin with on only one income?

[scfr]

Why not? It's anonymous. And even if it weren't...we are all virtual strangers here. What difference does it make?

Those of us who blog here realize that there is a slim chance an acquaintance may identify us.

Since we moved to Austin in October, I have heard of 2 kidnappings that appeared to be financially motivated (for ransom), and we are not talking about multimillionaires, but just regular folks who may have had a bit of money. One was a little boy who was snatched as his mother was getting him in to the car to take him to school ... Thank God for Amber Alerts (he was found safe later the same day). The news mentioned that such kidnappings are common in Mexico, and this particular type of crime may have moved across the border.

Especially for those of us who live in border states, that alone is enough not to make us not want to disclose specific fianancial information to a bunch of strangers.

Take care all.

[Lonewolf]

Daycare . . .

I once had a friend tell me that she HAS to work to cover daycare costs. Apparently, it just never occurred to her that if she stayed home she wouldn't need daycare.

Only thing I would point out is if two people get together and start to have a family many times both are moving forward with a career. Although my wife's job in radio is not one that will ever bring home the "big bucks" it is a labor of love. Not sure I was built to be a stay at home Dad, so I couldn't assume she was a stay at home mom.

When we first started Daycare, it was almost break even (a little in our favor) but my wife really didn't want to leave the job that brought her so much joy. To be honest, my job was just a job to "pay the bills", it just happened to pay more. After a couple of advancements, my wife clearly makes well over the "breakeven point" and still has the luxury of getting to our toddlers by naptime on many days.

Just a point that not everyone is a stay at home mom, as I envy the patience of my daycare provider many days. Its all about the right blend of choices that work best for your family.

Lonewolf

[DebbieL]

I think Syracusa should read "The Millionaire Next Door". She might be quite enlightened by what she would find out. Most of the flashy types she seems to admire don't have real wealth at all. Those she looks down on are more likely to be the millionaires next door. And yes, a lot of them drive older cars, even (gasp) pickup trucks.

[aida2003]

I think your financial wellness should be defined not by how much income you make, but how much you keep. But money is not a good means to find friends, IMO.

I remember when I came to the U.S. 10 years ago, I lived with a well-off American family, and beside babysitting, I used to go out, of course. Once I met a guy from my country in a club. Next day I mentioned him to the family. The first question was "What does he do?" I said "He's a painter". They were not impressed by saying "he doesn't make much." Huh?? What do I care?!! I was just happy to meet a new face who happened to be from my homeland.
So, then it was my first glimpse at the American culture that it seemed judgmental to me.
Unfortunately it has changed in my country since the system changed and now people get jealous if you tell how much you make and expect more presents or parties from you based on that money. If you save, then they think you're being very cheap. Oh, well, I just avoid conversations about money.

[syracusa]

I think Syracusa should read "The Millionaire Next Door". She might be quite enlightened by what she would find out. Most of the flashy types she seems to admire don't have real wealth at all. Those she looks down on are more likely to be the millionaires next door. And yes, a lot of them drive older cars, even (gasp) pickup trucks.

It is quite unfortunate when communication breaks down. If from my posts you understood that I admire "flashy types" it is clear that communication broke down. I myself drive an old car. I paid 5000 $ for it although I had MUCH MORE cash available to sink into a car if I wanted to. I didn't.
I would never care for anything "flashy" even if I were a millionaire. So for you to draw the conclusion that "I admire flashy types" is just plain...let's not use the word because now when I think of it, yeah...it sounds really ugly.

Or is it that people who read and can have a stimulating conversation about something other than ball games...are "flashy"? Or those who carry themselves gracefully?... If yes - then yes, I admire "flashy" types. Let's just make sure we agree on definitions.

Some here seemed to have switched to a seriously defensive mode due to my statement that I have noticed a tendency FOR ME to NOT be compatible with the type of people who drive pick-up trucks, have exclusively sports-oriented preoccupation, "will not read a book to save their lives" (to cite from a self-proclaimed "educated-type" forum member) and live on fast-food.

Other than the fact that no one can make you feel inferior without your approval....question:

Since when are ALL such people "wonderful, modest, responsible" folks by default that are always to be admired? Their pick-up trucks and gas-guzzling monster cars are often an insult to humanity and not at all inexpensive (certainly more flashy than my old car); their huge-screen TV-s the same... and I could go on and on. So please, spare me the "these are all wonderful, down-to-Earth, BBQ-enjoying, simple folks that you snob, wrongfully despise".

This has not been my life experience so how about having the same consideration for my experience as I have for the experience you've had with "snobs"? Each one of us clicks with different types of people and that's OK.

As far as the theory that "stereotypes based on lifestyle and consumer choices do not work"...this is another myth. If such stereotypes did not work at all, Marketing as a science would not exist. Market researchers make corporations ungodly amounts of money every year when they target specific demographics with specific offerings ...EXACTLY because such stereotypes WORK most of the time! Frankly, I would not expect to have a "major click" with either the pick-up truck driver prototype nor the shiny-new, latest-model BMW/Mercedes driver prototype. So much about "flashy.

Yes, there will be the rare neurosurgen driving a pick-up truck (not that I would automatically consider a neurosurgen an "educated type" by default; I've heard of plenty physicians who would "not read a book outside their field to save their lives" and whose only preoccupation outside of cutting people is again, sports; I certainly would not care to hang out with them...large income or not, simply because I would get bored to tears, no other condescending reason included). But in general, the "educated types" (the kind who are observant about the world around them, who read to SAVE their lives and who can hold an interesting conversation) do not drive pick-up trucks period. Some will, most do not. Ask Market researchers.

Honestly - yes, I have the right to make fine discriminations as to what kind of people I would like to spend the little leisure time I have with. As for another benevolent member's observation that "if I stopped judging, I might be able to make some friends here ...flash news: I DO have friends here - they are just not the type that live in the neighborhoods I visited.

My concern had to do with the neighborhood, the schools thay my children will be forced to go to, the immediate environment, etc. People judge and make discriminations all the time. They always have, they always will. It depends on what each is looking for.

As far as I am concerned, this futile discussion about "snobs" and "nice people" is over....especially when definitions and meanings are misplaced, abused and spinned off.

Again, best to everyone - pick-up truck drivers included.

PS: I read the "Millionaire Next Door". To save my life.

[syracusa]

I think your financial wellness should be defined not by how much income you make, but how much you keep. But money is not a good means to find friends, IMO.

I remember when I came to the U.S. 10 years ago, I lived with a well-off American family, and beside babysitting, I used to go out, of course. Once I met a guy from my country in a club. Next day I mentioned him to the family. The first question was "What does he do?" I said "He's a painter". They were not impressed by saying "he doesn't make much." Huh?? What do I care?!! I was just happy to meet a new face who happened to be from my homeland.
So, then it was my first glimpse at the American culture that it seemed judgmental to me.
Unfortunately it has changed in my country since the system changed and now people get jealous if you tell how much you make and expect more presents or parties from you based on that money. If you save, then they think you're being very cheap. Oh, well, I just avoid conversations about money.

Well...welcome to the world where any observation that does not have built-in modern, mainstream American culture assumptions will be received with hostility and accusations of judgementalism, snobbery and the like (see above). You will notice the rule does not apply both ways; consequently, said family saw nothing "judgemental" in judging someone who makes little as being "not so good a catch".
I have noticed many Americans - not all, of course - are highly sensitive to the slightest implication that what their mainstream culture does or believes in may not necessarily be the cup of tea of people from other cultures (see the "pick-up truck hysteria"). But then again, the entire Plant is on its way "THERE" so it is no surprise that your co-nationals are becoming so sensitive about money issues. Soon your nice painter friend will be a "nobody" even in the eyes of your formerly non-materialistic co-nationals. Yes, it's a shame and like you said, you can't really win.

But yes, I have had very similar experiences with those described by people from other cultures, OP included.