what is your monthly income?

[syracusa]

I don't think your judgement of the working class is an accurate one. My neighbor who works for the local utility, for example, has 2 kids. One graduated from Drexel University with an engineering degree. The other graduated last year from Loyola University (not sure what her degree is in) and I know she spent a semester in Australia as part of her program. I'm not sure about my other neighbors, but I think there is plenty of focus on education.

My daughter's schooling has been just fine so far. She's had great teachers and get's some challenging assignments. Some of the work has been too easy, but she happens to be a bright kid who is generally ahead of her class. Overall, I think everything has been just fine and she'll be well prepared for whatever college curriculum she eventually follows. And what happens at home is as important or even more important than what happens in the classroom. She reads constantly, and I'm talking about some serious reading, not just pre-teen fluff stuff.

Then, that's good. You're probably in a much better neighborhood than the type I fear. By "working class" I meant more blue collar type occupations as opposed to professional occupations. As long as you are happy with the school and what she gets out of it, that's what matters. I was just curious.

[disneysteve]

By "working class" I meant more blue collar type occupations as opposed to professional occupations.

I think my neighborhood is mixed. As I said earlier, we have utility workers, folks in sales, teachers, fire fighters, airline employees, etc. What we don't have as far as I know is higher earning professionals like doctors, attorneys, corporate executives, bank officers, that type of thing.

[Seeker]

Syracusa, the problem with definitions is that they do not hold true for all people within that supposed "definition." There are unique individuals in this board as well as in your neighborhood. You are one of the unique persons as well.

Blue collar workers (say middle class) versus white collar workers ("professionals") do not tend to conglomerate. People conglomerate; unique individuals. People may hold certain types of jobs within an area, but are you "defined" by your job? Does your area define you? Is that truely what matters to you?

You seperate and classify things based on an external (which you describe as "superficialness" or the "glazed-eye" look) which is based on a feeling that you have when people talk with you.

Please realize that I'm not trying to speak against you or your opinions about your reality... what I am trying to say here, is that those people talking with you probably are also making some external judgements about you. Maybe you're meeting people that you cannot find any common ground with... maybe not.

But I can tell you that true conversations get beyond the externals. It's beyond Americanism or any culture. My friends cross nationalities and job classifications; my "friends" are various people, both rich and poor.

America is not a culture that originated with Americans -- unless you are a Native American Indian, none of our ancestors came from this country originally. Most of America's art, literature, etc. originated from other lands. Americans love the freedoms that this country allows, and you critise that with your words. Yes there are negative aspects to living in this country... would you rather live elsewhere?

If you think every single person is the "enemy" (out to get you or to critise you) then you know, that is what you will find. By grouping people and limiting people, you may limit yourself.

[Seeker]

Oops forgot to write to the OP.

Money and the amount of money earned is not really a topic of conversation because usually the workplace "discourages" these comparisons. And as others have pointed out, it really does not mean much anyway.

Every so often the newpaper comes out with a yeary magazine that describes incomes and jobs across the US. If I happen to make thousands of dollars more than my counterpart in another state, what does it really mean? California's COL (cost of Living) is a whole lot larger than many other states... how could I even begin to make a comparison on who has that "better" salary? It's just another apples to oranges comparison.

Even in the same workplace, if my peer earns more than me.... what business is it of mine? Unfortunately these things do create tensions and problems down the line, and that's what people try to avoid. So talking about money is usually discouraged.

[disneysteve]

Every so often the newpaper comes out with a yeary magazine that describes incomes and jobs across the US. If I happen to make thousands of dollars more than my counterpart in another state, what does it really mean?

We get that magazine, too. It means very little. There are so many variables that comparing is impossible.

I also get a magazine called Medical Economics that publishes a survey of physician income each year. The range for my speciality, family practice, is fairly broad. I'm usually somewhere near the middle. Does that mean much? Not really. I could change jobs anytime I wanted to and increase my income probably up to 50%. But the new job wouldn't be comparable in hours, duties, responsibility, scheduling flexibility, maybe proximity to my house, etc. The doctor down the road might make 30K more than me, but he might also handle patients at a couple of hospitals, oversee a nursing home, have Saturday hours, etc. Maybe he does some in-office cosmetic procedures. So just knowing he is also a family doctor and looking at salary figures doesn't tell me much of anything without knowing the rest of the story.

[simpleyme]

as far as who our neighbors are makes very little differance we spend all our time with each other ,and we work

[GoodBuyGirl]

I know many highly educated people who work blue collar jobs. Some people would rather have a hands on job rather then being caged in an office all day.
You have probably cheated yourself out of many great friendships due to your shallow outlook on life.
There is no law in America that says you have to be friends with your neighbor. My neighbors are a mixed lot. I do not socialize with them but if a disaster should happen I know that they would be there for me.

[pjmama]

This is a sad one to answer, because I have no income... at least not for the time being. I'm living off of student loan money :/ This summer, however, I'm hoping to have much more

[LuxLiving]

It seems funny that we still have a 'working class' designation when there are very few jobs any more that DON'T require a college degree.

The designation seems to date back to the days in the late 50's, 60's and yes, even the early 70's in the US when the majority of degrees went to either doctors, lawyers, nurses or school teachers. The rest of us were all 'working class' then - oh, except for bankers, which in my hometown you only got to be one if your daddy was one.

GoodBuyGirl, I know I seem to find life a lot more enjoyable when I treat everyone on an equal basis. It did seem to me a bit odd to only question specifically someone who's a doctor as the only one out of everyone here as being interested in getting a good education for our children.

Surely some of the rest of us have experience in the quality level of education received in working class neighborhoods?

And, as with the other recent question about utilities, unless you live in the same district, or even the same neighborhood, I think you'd almost be wasting your time in asking the question. Teachers and school-systems vary widely in the quality of education being given, even those just a couple of blocks away from each other.

In fact, in my state one of the smallest, most rural of towns (you know, the cow & horses folks) reportedly (I don't have a solid data source for this claim) gets the highest test scores. The most scholarship offers, college recruiters, headhunters and the like. There is only one school - K-12. My niece and nephew graduated from there. If I recall correctly my nephew was valedictorian of his class.

Syracusa, I'd suggest that you pinpoint a neighborhood and home you'd like and then concentrate on the pros and cons of the school system. OR, find a school system you like and then find a group of neighbors you do click with and only then selecting a home in that district.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

That's because only doctors are educated enough to want their children to be well read. These are the few americans left reading probably. If you do anything without a degree, it's likely you watch sports, drink beer, bbq, and aren't concerned about educating your children.

But incomes are very disparate across areas. Don't doctors who work in say iowa make a lot less than one living in CA? Or even lawyers, etc.

[Ima saver]

Yes, but $8232 was a lot of money back in the 1800's....

Just kidding!

Yes it was sweeps! But that was back in 1990!! Not 1890!!

[disneysteve]

Disney steve since you seem pretty down to earth , do you find it a complement when people like syracusa glom onto you when they find out you are a Doctor?

I am not a Doctor or the like but have some level of success and reputation in my community and find it hard to make true friends do to this kind of attraction by others

Thank you for the compliment of being down to earth. What I don't like is when people treat me differently or think I must be a certain way or lead a certain lifestyle because I'm a doctor. You're just as likely to find me working out in the yard getting filthy as you are to find me attending some cultural event or museum. I'm certainly not above doing manual labor. In fact, after being stuck in an office all day, I quite enjoy it.

I also don't have Dr. stamped on my forehead. By that, I mean that I'm not quick to point out that I am a doctor. I never identify myself as Dr. Steve when I call anyone or introduce myself to anyone (when it isn't work related, I mean). As far as I'm concerned, Doctor is what I do. It isn't who I am. As a result, I don't find making friends to be that hard because I'll often know someone for a while before they find out that I'm a doctor. By then, they already know what I'm like so they don't stereotype me into their image of a doctor.

[LuxLiving]

This thread made me think of this story:

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Veterans Return Desks

[syracusa]

Disney steve since you seem pretty down to earth , do you find it a complement when people like syracusa glom onto you when they find out you are a Doctor?

Cheap move, Mister. I found Disneysteve's posts decent/the type I could relate to waaay before he disclosed he is a doctor. He just sounded like a decent individual and for starters, his writing was at least not full of typos, bad grammar and all sorts of illiterate comments. I also thought that most of the arguments he brought made sense.
I do not care an inch about doctors per se (as a matter of fact you would be surprised to find out I do not have a great opinion about MOST of the ones practicing in this country). Besides, I have seen tons whose only preoccupations outside of profession reflect a downright brutish/uneducated way of life and of course, a passion for money...and trust me, I would not want zilch to do with them. So how about all you, self-proclaimed "Down-to-Earth" "egalitarian", non-discriminatory folk (yeah, right!) take it a notch down and see your own biases when you imply that anyone with a "simple" lifestyle, a pick-up-truck, a sports obsession and a big-screen TV is the epitomy of the "PERFECT AMERICAN FOLK". This "wonderful American folk", ironically, has everything going on for them, including "grace", "education", "character" and everything in between ...but without ever reading a thing beyond the sports page or going anywhere beyond the sports arena, right?.

I have had the less-than-great fortune to bump into enough such individuals in the past years and their spoilt, consumer-driven, parochial, excessive, brutish and yes, painfully uneducated mentalities do not do any favors to Humankind in my opinion. (And when I pick a neighborhood to live in, trust me, I will do it based on MY OPINION and not someone else's!!).
As a matter of fact, I find them as dangerous to humanity as it gets because of their nonchalant ignorance, obtuse indifference, limited horizons coupled with an eternal sense of entitlement. So for me to want to live in a neighborhood where most people look and act like the type I have had unpleasent personal experiences with - would be downright irrational.

I have also been lucky to befriend very intelligent Americans (in fact the most intelligent and refined people I have ever had the honor to befriend were either American or British; they were "fancy" in the mind and character, not the wallet; they were wise, not "simple" - and yes, I have felt humbled every time). But let me assure you that the Americans who left that kind of impression on me were NOT anywhere close to the "simple folk" type you are so desperately and defensively trying to extol. Such defensive attitudes are based on pure doctrine - the oh, so fashionable egalitarianism of today - and not on reality.

And for clarification, DisneySteve has also posted arguments that I did not have "the pleasure" to agree with at all - in case you read other posts. So much for me "glomming" onto doctors. What a cheap comment. Geeez...I wonder, how many Pick-Up Trucks or PhD-s does it take to understand nuanced English?...

This is a really nice site for financial advice, frugal tips and the like. But I certainly have to start taking it for what it has to offer and not for its social commentary or "debating" qualities.

[disneysteve]

And for clarification, DisneySteve has also posted arguments that I did not have "the pleasure" to agree with at all - in case you read other posts. So much for me "glomming" onto doctors.

Just for the record, I didn't feel "glommed". Is that even a word?